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Anonymous
sorry for the political type talk- but there is a couple things i wanted to know, and figured this would be the best place to ask them:

I've been a huge advocate for universal healthcare (here in the US.) and i hear many retarded reasons coming from the conservative minded on why it is a horrible idea.

I like to point out that every other decently developed nation has figured out a working social healthcare program and we are just lagging behind the inevitable. a nation such as ours should have free healthcare, period. it is not something that should be earned.

anyway; i'd like to find out if any of their arguments have any merit. for example:
they say in france the healthcare is okay, but they are idiots in medical research because not enough money is being put into it. therefore all their med technology comes from us, because we are the ones putting all the money behind the research. IE without us they would fail hard.

example 2:
the free healthcare in places like the UK are sub par to ours, and many people fly over here to receive better treatment if they have the money for it. they also have to wait forever to get treatment.

that is another big one in their arguments:
there is horrible life threatening waiting times in countries with free healthcare. and the care is of course, sub par to ours.

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>> Anonymous
Because comparing the 3rd largest nation in landmass with the 3rd largest population (the most diverse population in one nation), in a country with the 180th densest population, which also has the largest GDP (not counting the EU) to small Scandinavian and Western European nations makes very much sense when formulating political opinions.


The United States is not like any European country. You are not one of us.

Get over it.
>> Anonymous
>the free healthcare in places like the UK are sub par to ours

This is the best arguement against nationalized healthcare, if you look into it and realize the deeper implications of why the NHS is failing in the first place.

Simply, GOOD universal healthcare isnt possible in a place with lots of violent primitive savages (negros/mexicans/etc).
>> Anonymous
>>55887

cry moar.
and thanks for helping me with my questions, cunt.
>> Anonymous
>>55891
Take a minute before you criticise your nation and think about the basic differences between your nation, and ours. It's completely different. Germany and the UK are somewhere around 90% white, while in 40 years, the United States will be only 45% white. European nations are tiny, close together, and use different systems of government than you (ever heard of a Prime Minister? You know how that's different than a President, right?)

What makes you think that when you have completely different basic national attributes that anything in these nations would work over there?

Mull this over.
>> Anonymous
>>55894

it is my belief that a socialized medicine program would work in some form here in the US.
at least something with a sliding pay scale sort of program.


what makes you think that it couldn't work whatsoever here? just because these nations have a lot of differences doesn't mean it wouldn't work at all, it would obviously just be different in execution, however i think they could be fundamentally the same: free healthcare.

if our nation wanted it enough, it would happen.
just like when the faggots said "WE ARE GOING TO THE MOTHERFUCKING MOON IN 10 YEARS"
without knowing exactly how the fuck this was going to happen, they still did it, because they wanted it enough.
>> Anonymous
>>55898
no they did it because they assembled some of the most brilliant minds on the planet, including a WWII nazi scientist and many more shady characters from all over the grid.
those minds don't exist anymore, and definately not in economics,and anyways rocket science is very very different from economic/administrative policy.

And finally what the fuck is the incentive, to doctors, to nurses, to insurance companies, even to the patient. As someone who pays for health insurance why the fuck would i support your plan for universal health care when the current system benefits me? not only that but I would stand to lose a lot with universal health care in terms of service, expediency, and the money I have already spent on health care. Even if the system in other countries is not horrible or possibly better It doesn't exist here now and to believe that there will be no turmoil in the implementation of a completely new system is umm fucking retarded.

the fact is the US isn't set up for universal health care, and your question are retarded because you are asking them of 4chan, end of story.
>> Anonymous
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German here:
I'd rate the quality of our health system as excellent. Of course it's different with every doctor and every clinic - some are better some are worse. But in general rich foreigners (Russia, Middle East) come here just to get a particular operation done.
Waiting times depend on the kind of doctor and were you live. You'll always get a date with the dentist but it may take weeks to months to get a date with a psychologist or orthopaedist. Emergencies or serious diseases are treated immediately though (lol at that guy who died in the waiting room of an American hospital because nobody gave a shit after waiting for hours).
Only basic treatment is actually "free".

Here is an example: Recently I developed a toothache in one of my wisdom teeth. The doctor informed me that the removal of the tooth would be for free. I could also have the hole in the tooth filled but that would cost me extra because the ministry of health decided that wisdom teeth were not essential to live (They really aren't, you don't use, they're just there).
It turned out that the state would pay half of the cost for that procedure. Eventually I payed ~30 € to keep my tooth for another few years which I thought was rather affordable.

Exotic or dubious treatments (Alternative medicine, cosmetic surgery) you'll have to pay all by yourself.
Sometimes it is hard to understand though why the state would pay for a certain procedure but not for another.
Other than that there is surprisingly little bureaucracy involved. I'm pretty much free to chose any doctor I like and there is hardly any paperwork on my side.
>> Anonymous
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>>55909

Cons:
- Even though lately politicians tried to remedy it our health system becomes more and more unequal. Doctors tend to make more money with richer people (Who can afford extra procedures that are not state-sponsored) which is why they may get sooner and better treatment.
- More rich people tend to live in the West of Germany which is why many doctors refuse to work in the East. In turn the health care in Eastern Germany is worse than in the west (It is still excellent, just not as good).
- Since income for physicians is pretty much state-regulated many doctors choose to leave Germany altogether and work in the US or Switzerland. Heck, some of my colleagues are even flying to the UK and make there as much during the weekend as they would in the week here. tl;dr: Brain drain.
- Demographic-wise Germans get older and older while fewer and fewer are born. This means that even now and more so in the future a few working people will have to pay for a lot of old pensioners . This is true for most European countries and probably the hugest challenge to social health care.
>> Anonymous
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>>55909
>>55911
I just realized how bad my English is. Anyways, I study medicine and could go on with this forever. But if you have any specific questions just ask. But bear in mind that my knowledge is limited to Germany mostly. There are shittier NHS like in the UK (Sorry mates, it's the truth) and better ones like in Scandinavia.
After all I'm rather fond of our health system and wouldn't like it any other way. But, in a way, it's not just about economics. It depends on your philosophical standpoint as well. Do you believe that there should be a right to health? The WHO says so but then again the US never really gives a shit about international organizations.
>> Anonymous
>>55914
>Sorry mates, it's the truth
It's ok, we already know. Enjoying my MRSA due to doctors not washing their hands.
>> Anonymous
>>55920
On a brighter side I heard you guys got rid of white coats because of all the dirt that accumulates on the sleeves.
>> Anonymous
thank you for all the info germanfag.

how long has your system been going on? was the public worried about it failing or ruining part of the economy?

no i've never heard of the WHO, and you are correct, america could give a shit about any international organization. i'm so happy we are currently saying "FUCK YOU WE IS AMERIKUNS WE DOS WUT WE WANT YEEEEHAWWW" to the rest of the world.....

anyway, it is my belief, as i said, that healthcare should not be something that is earned, but rather a right to every citizen in a nation such as ours.


FYI, i had a cavity that was quite bad, it could have just been filled in and saved it, however my broke ass was not able to pay upwards of $1000. so i just payed $175 for them to just take it out. luckily it was a molar so you can't see it.
when i was there, all they could fucking do was tell me how much i should spend $5000+ on all of this work i didn't need. it was like a constant fucking infomercial. at least 3 hours wasted of them trying to upsell me shit i didn't want/need.
our healthcare is almost pure business, and i hate it.
>> Anonymous
>>55904

empathy motherfucker, have you heard of it?

just because we aren't "set up" to do certain things, means we shouldn't attempt to do them at all?


enjoy your elitist asshole viewpoints.
>> Anonymous
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>>55932
>how long has your system been going on? was the public worried about it failing or ruining part of the economy?

Most of our social security systems (which includes a lot more than just health care) were created little by little in the end of the industrialization era. Due to extreme poverty communist and socialist parties gained more and more influence.
Chancellor Bismarck (He would be a far right republican in your government) initiated the health insurance as a way of stopping the unrest and leftist influence. (This was 1883 if you must know).
The health care system started out slowly and got more and more extensive over time (Just as medicine got better and more expensive).
And while there were always (pro-laissez faire) voices who criticized the system (especially during economic recessions) it is also a proven tool that keeps the lower & lower middle class from drifting too far away from society.
Nowadays though many politicians/scientists believe that we have reached a turning point were this system is no longer financeable (Due to various reasons which I won't elaborate on in this post)

>it is my belief, as i said, that healthcare should not be something that is earned, but rather a right to every citizen

Your country is a very capitalistic one and emphasizes personal freedom and monetary success over everything else. It's the reason why you guys are so successful. Imho it's also the reason why you are sometimes seen as....well...morally backwards. But who am I kidding, it's like this over here too and if it wasn't for our history we still wouldn't have free health care.
>> Anonymous
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>>55946
>our healthcare is almost pure business, and i hate it.

Health care is one thing and the good thing is that it usually doesn't affect us young people that much. But consider this: I study medicine and all my university asks for a fee are a lousy 500€ per year. Now ask yourself what you spend for college/uni and how much you're indebted by the time you're finished. Now *that's* what I would hate.
>> Anonymous
Where I live, healthcare is like clockwork, and while NHS is apparently shit, I can't imagine them delaying urgent operations or not giving them at all - after all it seems like American healthcare system only works for making profits for the few faggots in charge - thank you, capitalism. Keep your faggotry away from my healthcare and education kthxbai.
>> Anonymous
>>55947

oh good god you're right on that one.
i got accepted to a good college, but decided not to go because i would have about $40,000 in debt just in personal loans. that's not counting the interest free loans from the government.

i can't believe you're going to school for medicine and only paying that much. here i think you would be about $100,000/$200,000 in debt after it was all said and done.

which isn't much considering how much doctors get paid over here. you could pay it all off within 5 years easy.
>> Anonymous
>>55949

what exactly is the NHS anyway? that stands for National Healthcare System?
>> Anonymous
Good healthcare should be earned. Stupid people need to die out, while intelligent people who can make enough money to afford great healthcare should continue to breed.

Capitalism, superior.
>> Anonymous
I'm on a pension card, which means I get discounted drugs to keep me alive. What used to cost nearly $100 a month now costs $15. Very nice when you're on a pension.
There's no delays or problems with medical procedures; I've paid my taxes all the years while I was working, now I get to collect.