File :-(, x, )
Anonymous
Is Istanbul a good city to visit? It's got a lot of historical significance and probably worth a trip.

pic related: It's Mustafa Kemal Ataturk.
>> Anonymous
You can get imprisoned for insulting Turkey or Mr. Ataturk over there. I lol'D! Fucking fail of a country.
>> Anonymous
>>18302
It's not like insulting great leader kim jong il

you can do it and no one gives a fuck, unless you do it in mass media and if you're someone important enough for some useless republican prosecutor to prey on
>> Anonymous
>>18291
You know, the god-emperor of mankind was actually born in Anatolia...
>> Anonymous
>>18308
but ataturk wasn't born in anatolia

and the whole being-dead thing too sort of disqualifies him for being a contender for the immortal leader of mankind
>> Anonymous
>>18310
he has been alive since 8th century BC, under different names and guises - he mislead people to think he wasn't born there

and he isn't dead, if you were to excavate his tomb, you will find the remains of a guy named allenby
>> Anonymous
>>18314
I believe he underwent plastic surgery after he "died" and resurfaced as Fidel Castro Ruz. Who knows what he'll do next...
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
>>18316
it's true

pic related, samefag
>> Anonymous
>>18314
It's not 8th century, it's 8th millenium BC

in b4 gb2/tg/
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
OP here, what should I visit when I come to Istanbul? I'm talking about historical sites.

pic related: It's the Turkish Armed Forces.
>> Anonymous
>>18324
>>18319
>>18316
>>18314
>>18308
Thread successfully derailed.
>> Anonymous
>>18304
>It's not like insulting great leader kim jong il

The difference is that Ataturk actually was a fantastic leader.
>> Anonymous
>>18335

ataturk is a faggot
>> Anonymous
>>18331
HERESY!
>> Anonymous
>>18336
Yes, he could've been gay, but I too recognize him as a great leader
>> Anonymous
>>18331
check out wikitravel, they have a nice guide on istanbul


in other news, who're the space marines
>> Anonymous
>>18339

He's only famous because he invented the Turkish bathhouse. Ataturk is a nigger-fucking homo.
>> Anonymous
>>18344
hmmm 0/10

I really wanted to give it at least a 1/10, but you really need to work harder
>> Anonymous
>>18336
Impossible. He's dead. It would be of no significance if he was one though.

Back to OP's question.

Tons of old churches and mosques in the historical peninsula south of the Golden Horn, CBA to name them all. Also the Topkap? Palace which also houses the Archeological Museum is there. There is the Genoese (Galata) Tower just north of the Golden Horn. Still a bit more to the north is Dolmabahçe Palace.

Istanbul isn't a city that smells of history though, don't go expecting that. Historical sites are mostly isolated (in character) from their surroundings. My advice is get lost in the ordinary neighborhoods of Balat at the neck of the historical peninsula. Also a ferry trip to the Asian side is obligatory. Not much history to see there, but I find it a more pleasing and humanly place. You will also want to see the Princes' Islands.
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
>>18346
>> Anonymous
>>18349
bawwwwwwww a map

3/10 because it actually makes nationalistfags rage
>> Anonymous
>>18349
And the world refused to change?
>> Anonymous
>>18354
wat
>> Anonymous
>>18354
I lol'd.
>> Anonymous
>>18347
I should add, NEVER eat in luxurious places infested with tourists and nouveau riche. I paid almost two grand for a dinner in Ç?ra?an palace for a shitty anniversary, and honestly even I could cook better. That was an extreme example, but really people there apparently think tourists are people with lots of money and no taste buds or something.
>> anonymous of athens !SysNpnp3nU
>>18304
Article 301....
>> Anonymous
>>18360
>but really people there apparently think tourists are people with lots of money and no taste buds or something.
Which is mostly true, for Americans anyway; I mean it must be working if they stick to it right? :) But let me give you a tip: In any of those shops that sell rugs, ornaments, souvenirs and all that crap, the shopkeepers will try and rip you off. Whatever they ask for, offer them half that and bargain hard. This is mostly not true for others though, just so you don't make an ass of yourself.
>> Anonymous
>>18363
Read a post before you reply to it, dummy. Of course, there has to be such a law before it can be applied. Thing is you won't get into (legal) trouble unless you do it through the mass media.
>> anonymous of athens !SysNpnp3nU
>>18366

Oh, that's ok then! It's restricted to the academic classes (read: the classes who make public opinion).
>> Anonymous
>>18368
yep, only if all the academic circles were allowed to debate whether or not ataturk was gay...
>> anonymous of athens !SysNpnp3nU
>>18371
I bet you are a turk. You probably read all that shit about youtube in the Turkish press, majority of Greeks didn't even KNOW that Turkey had banned Youtube. They didn't care, yet Turks take these things so seriously.

Not really relevant to whether he was gay or not, some people say he was gay, others leave no comment. Who cares? He was a good leader for his people and he's been turned into personality cult by his successors unfortunately.

But the debate isn't about gayness, in every country academic circles release papers, debate with each other about everything and anything. Soem professors state the single party period was a bad period for Turkey, they hold Kemal responsible. Others say no, why not let them debate?
>> Anonymous
>>18368
I'll add "...or in any circumstance that will get you mass media coverage." to my previous post, thought it would be obvious. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but you won't get an argument out of me on this as there is nothing to defend about the content or existence of article 301.
>> Anonymous
>>18374
sup bitter butthurt nationalistfag

It's funny because in a post about 'greeks not giving a fuck' you wrote paragraphs of inane stupid shit, you take these things so seriously...

not to mention, the bans were not the least popular, it was thanks to old judges who didn't know how internets worked

and, it's funny because the single party period is actually debated pretty often

gg
>> anonymous of athens !SysNpnp3nU
>>18376
Nationalist?

Can you tell me.

How many votes did the MHP recieve in last year's election?

Can you compare that to the votes of LAOS in Greece?

We'll see who is more 'nationalist'.
>> Anonymous
>>18378
because you're greece and I'm turkey, right?

*you* are a stupid nationalist, and turkey having more stupid nationalists than greece does not in any imaginable way make your ass-backwards delusions any better, enjoy.
>> Anonymous
>>18378
He was talking about you as an individual, if you can picture that. Also, this is not /n/, gb2 http://plus4chan.org/boards/n/.
>> anonymous of athens !SysNpnp3nU
>>18381
What is your proof then? Where have I stated I support one nationalist party or the other? I voted for New Democracy.

Nationalist madness in W. Thrace from Turks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5KojLO8rUc
>> Anonymous
>>18385
The fact that you are posting that stuff is proof enough of your butthurt existence, not to mention the fact that you are a raving racist retard OMG OMG LOOK YOUTUBE VIDYA
>> Anonymous
>>18385
PROTIP: Wow, you didn't vote for the "nationalist" party, so every retarded fascist opinion you express isn't nationalist!

You don't get this new fangled "logic" thing, do you?
>> anonymous of athens !SysNpnp3nU
>>18386
Yep. No response, I suspected as much.

Turkish irredentist nationalism is ingrained and institutionalized anyway. You probably think it's a 'moderate' position to claim continental shelf rights in the Aegean. This is the breadth of diference we are dealing with.
>> Anonymous
>>18392
This, kids, is an example of irony exhibited by a narrowminded retard, trying to legitimize his spoon-fed backwards reactionary notions. It is a sad sight for humanity indeed.
>> Anonymous
>>18385
Your approach gives it all away. I'm sorry to tell you, but you are a modern nationalist.
The URL you provided brands Western Thracian Turks as terrorists and their talk about daily matters as propaganda. I'm sorry I can't comment on the accuracy of the subtitles as it's, well, Greek to me, though I *really* wonder what makes them terrorists.
>> Anonymous
>>18392
Wow, no response to "I'M NOT A NASHUNALIST BEKUZ I DIDN'T VOTE FOR A NASHUNALIST PARTY LOOK LOOK EVIL TURKS OMG"? Wow, you have won the argument! Now you can go back to /n/!
>> anonymous of athens !SysNpnp3nU
>>18393

I would say it is more narrow minded to claim territory off a state in the 21st century to be honest. To threaten the territorial integrity of an EU member state is not befitting of a civilized nation.

There are certain matters that are non-negotiable.
>> anonymous of athens !SysNpnp3nU
>>18394
>daily matters

did you watch the video?
>> Anonymous
>>18397
Again, more irrelevant stuff which in no way was debated whatsoever. Pathetic.
>> Anonymous
>>18398
I didn't, but even if those people said LETS KILL EVERY GREEK PERSON HURR DURR, you realize it is still a fucking youtube video, the opinion of some idiots, and something you posted irrelevantly to "support"... whatever. Not that your ideas are retarded, but you don't have any coherency in debating too, posting more and more irrelevant shit no one supported or even mentioned - this is what makes you a sad example of a human being.
>> anonymous of athens !SysNpnp3nU
>>18399

Well I'm still curious as to how you can pin me down as a 'nationalist' without any proof.
>> Anonymous
>>18397
>to claim territory off a state in the 21st century to be honest.
Like? If this is about the continental shelf issue, Greece is the one that wants to increase its continental shelf to 12 miles while Turkey's is 6.

>>18398
TBH I kind of skimmed through it and failed to see anything alarming. This makes me ponder if the subtitles are accurate, but I'm afraid we'll never know.
>> Anonymous
>>18402
Because you're a retard who posted a youtube video which apparently shows "turks are bad" OUT OF FUCKING NOWHERE, FOR NO REASON. That alone exposes your insecurities, and as a tripfaggot you have exposed yourself as a racist moments ago. So, even if you didn't vote for the nationalist party you think like a retarded fascist. Enjoy your failure.
>> anonymous of athens !SysNpnp3nU
>>18404

Fuck you, you are the reactionary here. I never stated 'all turks' this, despite the fact that I could easily find reason to hate all Turks. Yet even though I am moderate you Turks try my patience, I would like very much to be friends with you all, but you won't stop your damn claims on a bilateral level. And until you stop behaving in that manner, Greece and Turkey will forever be at loggerheads.
>> Anonymous
>>18403
I think he meant eastern thrace, which no one claims anyway.
>> Anonymous
It's refreshing to be an American and to not be one of the sides in a national argument
>> Anonymous
>>18405
LEVELS OF IRONY REACHING EXTREME PROPORTIONS, BRACE FOR IMPACT

And, I have no reason to hate the greek people, and I can't find a reason to hate any "people" on earth, however I do hate all the retarded fascists around the globe regardless of their ethnicity.
>> anonymous of athens !SysNpnp3nU
>>18410

This 'fascist' description is tiring to be honest. How am I fascist?
>> Anonymous
>>18405
You want an objective opinion? You are a bigot. You have provoked a shitstorm out of nothing and are keeping it alive with red herring fallacies and yet accuse this guy of "behaving in that manner". Just accept that fact and get on with your life.
>> Anonymous
Any two nations that think the terms 'gayreek' and 'turgay' are the epitome of insults are pretty stupid imo.
>> Anonymous
>>18415
It's funny because retarded MHP drones utter exactly the same bullshit you do after they rant on about "those damn kurds". If years of your life couldn't show yourself what a pathetic excuse for a human being you've become, I can't either, sorry.

If you wish to continue the shitstorm, re-read the thread and find an appropriate response for the reactionary bullshit you spew, as clearly you aren't capable of much original thought anyways.
>> Anonymous
>>18422
/thread
>> Anonymous
>>18419

At least he is honest about being Greek. Only Turkfags get butthurt enough to reply so many times and then pretend to be an impartial third party. REAL impartial non-Turks wouldn't give a shit.
>> Anonymous
Turkey should abandon all nationalism and go back to its Ottoman roots. Also anon of athens's ancestors blessed themselves by sucking the cock of their masters and swallowing their cum.
>> Anonymous
>>18427
BTW I'm a Iraqi living in Switzerland.
>> anonymous of athens !SysNpnp3nU
>>18429
Phanariot Greeks ran the Ottoman Empire's bureaucracy, they constituted the economic elite too, that's why they were so hated by the peasants.
>> Anonymous
lol greek pm visited tureky baaawww
lol northern and southern cyprus and opening doors to negotiations bawww
>> Anonymous
>>18427
This is not /n/ and I want to see it that way, if I wanted this bullshit I'd go to plus4chan. So damn right I give a fuck.
>> Anonymous
>>18427
As the turkfag, I clearly didn't post that as I was busy typing>>18423, enjoy your useless post.
>> Anonymous
As an American, I'd take a turk over a greek any day.
>> Anonymous
>>18432

Sunni or Shia? Doesn't matter I guess you probably are pro-Turk because they are taking care of your "Kurd problem".
>> Anonymous
>>18435
Yeah fucking right, source? Nigger of Europe?
>> Anonymous
>>18435
moar liek armenians
>> Anonymous
>>18441
Actually the Kurds are safest inside my home country, and I hate modern day Turkey and fully against it.
>> Anonymous
>>18443
Great, now you have initiated a new shitstorm by taking the bait from that retard. Congratulations.
>> Anonymous
>>18445
lol no
>> Anonymous
Greeks have vast amounts of Arab and Sub-Saharan blood. They don't look to different from the Turks to me.
>> anonymous of athens !SysNpnp3nU
>>18432
real fucking patriot....

>>18443

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phanariotes
>> anonymous of athens !SysNpnp3nU
>>18448
http://modern-macedonian-history.blogspot.com/2007/12/dropped-genetics-paper-lacked.html
>> Anonymous
ITT WE BAWW BECAUSE GREEKS INVADE TROY AND THEN PAY BACK TIME WHEN OTTOMAN CONQUERED GREECE
>> Anonymous
>>18448
It's funny because Turks don't much have sub-saharan or arab blood too

wait, we were already over this - you got me momentarily 6/10
>> Anonymous
>>18452
Hector has been avenged. Everyone can go home now.
>> Anonymous
>>18448

The reason why western city Turks have light skin is that they were blessed with partial Greek ancestry and therefore no complete niggers like the rest.
>> Anonymous
>>18449
I'm not a patriot lol, may Iraq be detonated by a Nuclear explosion that will spread to Syria Iran Lebanon and Israel.
>> anonymous of athens !SysNpnp3nU
>>18452

Genetic turks were in central asia at the time of Troy.
>> Anonymous
>>18456
actually, northeast turkey probably has the palest complexion, with dark skin more exclusive to southern regions, not to mention migrant central azn turks not having arabesque dark skins in the first place

but hey I'll go with your theory
>> Anonymous
>>18458
loletruscans

but who cares
>> Anonymous
>>18456
Spoilers TURKS = GREEKS SAME ETHINCITY DUMBASS JUST LIKE ARABS AND HEEBZ
>> anonymous of athens !SysNpnp3nU
>>18460

Etruscans were an italic people, what's your point?
>> Anonymous
>>18458
Where was the contrary opinion stated? You don't have to be trojan to avenge the trojans...
>> Anonymous
>>18462
No shit, Sherlock.
>> anonymous of athens !SysNpnp3nU
>>18464

Then what the fuck do they have to do with central asia?
>> Anonymous
>>18462
no, not really, they were language isolate to begin with
>> anonymous of athens !SysNpnp3nU
>>18463
The Romans 'avenged' troy, there is no connectio between troy and turkey.
>> Anonymous
>>18458
yeah and the world is 6k years old lol
also did you know that modern christianity was made by the greece.
>> Anonymous
>>18465
It refers to the uncanny genetic similarities between descendants of etruscans in isolated regions and the modern-day turks, so it was slightly more relevant than the bullshit you posted
>> Anonymous
>>18468
Troy is in Turkey

gg
>> anonymous of athens !SysNpnp3nU
>>18469

Really? Genetic 'turkic' people were in Europe at the time of Troy? Enlighten me fabled Historian, how did you arrive at this conclusion? Through exhaustive evidence no doubt, Seljuks were a subset of Mongols.
>> Anonymous
>>18454
What about Achilles?
>> anonymous of athens !SysNpnp3nU
>>18470

Any scientific journals allude to this?
>> Anonymous
Glad to see some resistance from /trv/ against becoming another /n/.
>> Anonymous
>>18472
No one claimed the first, but you out of your butthurt feelings needed to state that repeatedly. And, the connection between mongols and turks has been proven to be mostly linguistic by research. I urge you to take your crying elsewhere.
>> Anonymous
>>18474
lern2google
>> anonymous of athens !SysNpnp3nU
>>18471
And there are roman ruins in arab egypt. What's your point?
>> anonymous of athens !SysNpnp3nU
>>18477
No, show me proof from accredited scientific journals.
>> Anonymous
>>18474
http://www.sciencecodex.com/mystery_solved_ancient_italians_came_from_turkey
>> anonymous of athens !SysNpnp3nU
>>18476
lol, you really think you are the sons of Priam or something. I read some nationalist turkish site claiming the Minoans were Turks too. How ridiculous, brains really do go to sleep in these sitautions.
>> Anonymous
>>18468
EPIC FUCKING FAIL
everyone go home, accept aoatripfaggin, go to hades plz you still believe in right, OR ARE YOU A SLEF HATING FAGGOT
>> Anonymous
>>18478
My only point is that you are an idiot who is spewing his stupid notions even though this is not the place for it. Please get the fuck out of my /trv/.
>> Anonymous
>>18440

Let's see, the Greeks gave us: democracy, science, philosophy, classical literature and art, built the foundation of Western civilization.

The Turks gave us: funny hats.

So yeah, I prefer Turks as well. Funny hats ftw.
>> Anonymous
>>18481
No, I clearly said that I nor anyone else here stated that, but since you are so retarded you can't seem to get it through your thick skull. Enjoy your retardation.
>> Anonymous
>>18484
too obvious
>> Anonymous
>>18478
There are Roman ruins in Lebanon too, because it was part of the Roman Empire just like greece.
>> anonymous of athens !SysNpnp3nU
>>18484
The Fez is Byzantine in origin, it was used by court officials :)
>> anonymous of athens !SysNpnp3nU
>>18487
Thanks for further proving my point.
>> Anonymous
>>18291
Istanbul is a good city to visit, but don't take butthurt fascists with you, they can ruin the trip.
>> Anonymous
>>18481
lol anon of athena, are you still butt-hurt because Macedonia called it self w/e
>> anonymous of athens !SysNpnp3nU
>>18492
No, call them whatever they like, they are welcome to come to Vergina to inspect the 2600 year old slavic alphabet there :)
>> Anonymous
>>18489
It's funny because your point doesn't exist. There is a connection between them - they used to be roman provinces. But, as a retard who repeatedly spouts things completely irrelevant to the subject to the degree that the discussion came to this point, I expect a better performance in continuing in the exposure of your butthurt bigotry, by posting more and more irrelevant bullshit.
>> Anonymous
>>18489
You're welcome, I think Zeus is a pretty cool guy, eh ZAPS and doesn't afraind of anythin
>> anonymous of athens !SysNpnp3nU
>>18494
Really, so the Italic settlements set up all around the Empire by Aemelius, Sulla, Pompey, Caesar, Augustus are related to the modern day nation states? I think not, they dont even share a linguistic connection.
>> Anonymous
lol is NeoTurkey aka Greece lol still on fire?
>> Anonymous
>>18498
AND HE SCORES WITH MORE IRRELEVANT BULLSHIT!

'A' connection was not linguistic, ethnic or whatsoever, it was geographical. Your low reading comprehension must really be hard on you, eh?
>> Anonymous
>>18496
I thought it was the Almighty who ZAPS?
>> anonymous of athens !SysNpnp3nU
>>18499
I find your samefaggotry disturbing.
>> Anonymous
sage
>> anonymous of athens !SysNpnp3nU
>>18500
Geographical connection means fuck all, it means whatever is in the borders of states decided by treaties centuries ago.
>> Anonymous
Sweet jesus. 110+ posts already. You guys are crazy.
>> Anonymous
>>18502
I'm the guy who posted this>>18498
>> Anonymous
>>18504
You aren't getting it at all, are you? You said there was no connection at all in a moment of yet another butthurt rage, yet there was one, very simple connection, and it was over there, but you went on with arabs and linguistic connections and nation states...

Then again, why am I not surprised?
>> Anonymous
>>18505
This is why we can't have nice things.

Fucking imported /n/ tripfags...
>> Anonymous
>>18502
What about that Greek Cock Ritual, is it not disturbing?
>> Anonymous
http://plus4chan.org/boards/n/
>> Anonymous
>>18510
/thread
>> anonymous of athens !SysNpnp3nU
>>18509

San Francisco certainly doesn't think so.
>> Anonymous
>>18508
Yeah, report that fucker.
>> Anonymous
>>18513
Yeah but what about SPARTAAAAA
>> Anonymous
OP here, I come back and I see 100+ posts in my thread. I'm not a part of this discussion though. I just want to know if staying Istanbul is going to be expensive.
>> Anonymous
I love the way people will samefag their way through these threads, on both sides. It's so blindingly obvious, /trv/ doesn't have enough active people to reach 100+ threads in this short space of time. So pathetic... Try and be a little subtle next time.
>> Anonymous
Greece? Isn't that where Borat came from?
>> Anonymous
Hey you guys, is Greece in the Balkans? Or the Middle East?
>> Anonymous
>>18504
Troy is part of Turkey's history, if not the Turks'. Turks take pride in both their ethnic history and that of the land they dwell upon. I don't see anything wrong, it's not like they try to take credit by claiming Trojans were Turkish or anything, though they are one of the genetic ancestors of modern Turks obviously.
>> Anonymous
>>18519
I'm pretty sure its in the Baltics.
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
Only one way to settle national disputes, and that's a gundam match
>> Anonymous
This thread is shit, and probably a sign of things to come in /trv/.

Turks and the retarded tripfag gb2/n indeed.
>> Anonymous
>>18516
You can make it expensive, but you can make it very cheap too, relatively.
>> Anonymous
I believe its more to the east, some where between North Korea and South Korea!
>> Anonymous
>>18520
>that of the land they dwell upon

not the guy you're replying to, but what about all those greek cities on the western coast? Greece has far more of a 'claim' to their historical past than Turkey does. I only say this because I'm a History student by the way, Anatolia is not exclusively 'Turkish' as far as ownership of historicity goes.
>> Anonymous
>>18527
MIDDLE KOREA FTW
>> Anonymous
>>18516
Istanbul has a variety in this - either you can go cheap and stay at shitty places and eat shitty stuff, or you could spend extraordinarily and get service in kind. So it isn't really "inherently" expensive like Tokyo.
>> Anonymous
>>18529
It's called NEUTRAL korea shitbag!
>> Anonymous
>>18528
Stay being a history student.

In b4 poles stole german land
>> Anonymous
>>18531
FUCK YOU!!
>> Anonymous
NO U!>>18533
>> Anonymous
Is Greece part of Serbia Guys?
>> Anonymous
>>18528
They are presented as Greek ruins. What do you expect us to do? Keep visitors out of them and only let them see sites relevant to Turkish history?
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
139 posts and 3 image replies omitted.
>> Anonymous
sage
>> Anonymous
PALESTINE IS ARAB
>> Anonymous
>>18536
No, my own opinion isn't really racially based. More linguistically based. There are Armenian monuments in the East of Anatolia, moreso Greek in the West. They don't 'belong' to anyone, they are cultural heritage that is particularly ASSOCIATED with certain ethnic groups. Just like certain key mosques in the Balkans are most commonly associated with ethnic turks. No one has direct 'ownership' except the ministry of culture of various countries I guess.
>> Anonymous
>>18540
incoming shitstorm!!!
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
/trv/ lol
>> Anonymous
>>18541
Yeah, so? I don't see how I fell in conflict with that.
>> Anonymous
>>18544

I guess the part where you claimed Turks derive 'pride' from monuments not associated with ethnic turks.
>> Anonymous
>>18545
yeah, they should've destroyed them like the afghans amirite
>> Anonymous
>>18545
I'm still not with you. "Take pride" doesn't imply "claim credit". I mean this land has history extending all the way back to (arguably) Noah's Ark, when compared to most countries of the world, that is something to be proud of. Not like proud of an achievement, but proud of being part of something, ie the continuation of that history to today.
>> Anonymous
>>18543
I didn't know jap and merkin plugs were different, hmm...
>> Anonymous
>>18545

Turks didn't build them.
>> Anonymous
>>18548
But that's kind of the crux of my issues. You can 'take pride' say in Hagia Sophia, but it represents an Empire that you are not associated with, an Empire most commonly associated with the modern day nation state of Greece. You associate with the Ottoman Empire, that implies contiguity with the arrival of the Turks and the Islamization of the region imo.
>> Anonymous
>>18552
>Not like proud of an achievement, but proud of being part of something, ie the continuation of that history to today.
I thought this bit covered it? If not I have no idea what you are talking about. And I need to fucking go to sleep, another post at most.
>> Anonymous
>>18553
But then you can apply that to any area, or any sphere of human history that expands out of the geography your country covers. I mean, it was the Ottoman Empire that destroyed Byzantium, that delivered the coup de grace so to speak. There is little contiguity except in the area of the civil service which the Ottomans inherited from the Greeks.
>> Anonymous
>>18554
If I get it right, you're looking at Turkic peoples (ethnic) while I'm looking at Turkey (geographical). As far as the history of Turkey (ie the landmass enclosed by the boundaries of the Republic of Turkey) is concerned, the Ottoman Empire is the successor to the Byzantine Empire. The understanding of nationality amongst Turks reflects this too.

I need to go to bed now, will go on tomorrow if this thread is still there.