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Anonymous
Amsterdam resident here.

Out of interest how many of you have visited Amsterdam? How did you like it? And seeing how everyone seems to have a stereotypicall view of Amsterdam did any of it turn out like you hoped/feared?
>> Anonymous
I've never been, but one of my buddies went a couple of years ago and got stabbed with a screwdriver.

Another friend just went about a month ago and had a grand old time. We live in Las Vegas, he said your hookers are way hotter.
>> Anonymous
>>42000
OP here

Yeah the hookers are pretty hot but depends on where you go for the love of god do not go behind the oude kerk that's where the cheap hookeers rent their window go next to the oude kerk thos are some choice hookers.

On the note of stabbing

A Junky once tried to stab me with a crack pipe He tried to sell me a bike he stole and it was a nice bike and he only wanted 20 euro's for it so i took out my cash and he reached inside his jacket and stabbed me ... with his crack pipe...didn't do any damage but I sure as got the fuck out of there before he found the knife he had been looking for.
>> Anonymous
Going there next year.
>> Anonymous
>>42001
Serves you right for trying to buy a stolen bike from a fence.
>> Anonymous
are there gay window hookers
>> Anonymous
>>42035
hustlers i guess is the term
>> Anonymous
I traveled to Amsterdam in 2007.

The city itself was great. I love the Van Gogh museum, and the Rijksmuseum. In addition, Anne Frank's house was well-kept; it gave a good perspective into the Holocaust from a human angle. But that's not what any of you anons who go to Amsterdam are interested in, is it?

Firstly, the Heineken factory is actually cool. You should go if you have the chance. Not that expensive admission, they give you two (?) free beers, and you get a souvenir.

Red light district: Shit, I spent time next to Oude Kirk and it was horrible. Nothing but middle-aged or elderly obese black hookers. There were a few hot ones scattered about, but I couldn't find many of them. Yeah, sure, for 50 euros you can get your world rocked, and do anything for a little extra, but there's also women who aren't prostitutes in the city who you can get to know.

>>42035
Yes. You go into the red light district, look for the ones who have blue lights. They're only women from the waist up, if you know what I mean.

As far as pot goes, I don't know much. Apparently some bars had to choose between selling pot and selling alcohol, and I've read that recently they banned tobacco smoke from bars as well. What you're able to do though is buy pot from one place, and then bring it into a bar and have it there. Most of them work like this.

My view of Amsterdam is that it was a pretty cool city. Though, it does have its flaws: you can't have an outdoor urinal if you don't want it to smell like piss sometimes. That's the most astute metaphor I can find.
>> Anonymous
>>42040
>They're only women from the waist up, if you know what I mean.
um no actually i don't. do they have breast implants or something? if so are there non-ladyboy hustlers? ones that actually look like men?
>> Anonymous
>>42041

They have cocks, what more do you want?
>> Anonymous
>>41999

The bicyclists are horrible. I really hated those.
>> Anonymous
>>42076

Almost as bad as the taxi drivers
>> Anonymous
Was planning to travel there just for the coffee houses.
If you catch my meaning.
>> Anonymous
>>42076

How the fuck can you hate bicycle drivers? I mean, sure they are arrogant and don't pay any attention to traffic rules, but every single person in Amsterdam rides a bike sooner or later. And don't tell me that, when you ride your bike, you obey every rule perfectly and wear a helmet or some shit. Plus, bikes are the perfect mode of transportation in our nation's capital.
>> Anonymous
I went here last year and it was pretty awesome.
I'm french and everyone was nice even though I didn't know dutch and spoke english most of the time.
Museums (particulary Van Gogh museum and Rijksmuseum) are really good, and coffee shops are a great plus for a tourist.
And as I'm a heavy bicycle user in my city where I must dodge cars all the time, seeing a city using bicycles so well enjoyed me.
Greatest city I've visited.
>> Anonymous
Went for just short of a week in 2000. I was rolling around with some guys that has lived there for a year on a study-abroad program so I missed most of the tourist attractions. Spent most of my time in coffee shops getting stoned off my ass. Really enjoyed hopping in the back of a Benz taxi and just having the dude drive me around for an hour as I smoked some hash spliffs in the back seat, way better than a bus tour.

No complaints and I'll go back at some point. Great women, too!
>> Anonymous
I spent a summer in Amsterdam when I was 17. I had tons of fun and found the people very friendly. This was before the world hated America and Americans though.
>> Anonymous
I had a pretty good time in Amsterdam.

People were nice, everybody spoke english, good museums, had only one drug related hospital trip.
The hooker I paid for was also pretty bad, I would've been better off masturbating.
Loved the museums though.
>> Anonymous
>>42247
> only one drug related hospital trip
wut? gtfo my a'dam
>> Anonymous
Oh yeah, words of relief to all potential travelers, but pretty much everybody in Amsterdam speaks English. As a matter of fact, if someone starts talking to you in Dutch and you don't know what the fuck they're going on about, it's more polite to say, "In English, please" than "Do you know English?" They sometimes take offense at that.
>> Anonymous
>>42261
Note taken. Don't wanna go and piss off an angry peasant for his speaking abilies, especially when hes trying to deal me some hash.
>> Anonymous
>>42122
oh so 1775?
>> Anonymous
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bst35P-WGE8
do i dont
>> Anonymous
I was just there last week, there was a sign up at a pot bar that said the new smoking ban meant that you couldn't mix any tobacco into your joint.

The Netherlands = lulz
>> Anonymous
Those motherfuckers wear wooden shoes and do a strange little tulip dance. lol dutchboys
>> Anonymous
>>42303

Pretty lulzy, isn't it? I'm going to use that as fodder to debate that pot should be legal and tobacco shouldn't be. It's an easy way to rage a lot of people.

>>42318
If you can find clogs outside of a tourist shop, you get 50 bonus points. Considering you get 2 bonus points for every openly gay/lesbian couple you see, too, that's kind of negligible.
There are a ton of homosexuals in Holland. That is all.
>> Anonymous
Britfag here. I've been to Amsterdam on business about 50 times. What are some good bars in Amsterdam?

I know Excalibur on the Oudezijds Achterburgwal. And Mulligans on the Amstel.. I frequent those two often. But I feel like I need to expand my horizons a little, I'll be there next friday. So what else is there?
>> gizmogal !MmLOyiCYJs
     File :-(, x)
know of Shintaro Kago (he made all that crazy manga they always post as shock material on /b/)... He had an exhibit in Amsterdam at a gallery called K-Space a while ago.
Wish I could have gone... But the gallery sounds cool, maybe you could check it out and report back.
>> canttouchthis !AB5fTSvpY6
im going next month,so any tips will be muchly appreciated.is the vondelpark too far away from the centre?
>> Anonymous
I love Amsterdam, it's the first place I went overseas, and I turned 30 there. Smoked lots of weed and did some whoring, but if you got rid of both those things it would still be a wonderful city.
>> Anonymous
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>is the vondelpark too far away from the centre?

Naw, it's pretty much in the same place as the Museum Square.

Pic related.
>> canttouchthis !AB5fTSvpY6
>>42398
its just that ive seen a nice little apartment i might rent,.its not as cheap as everyone makes out though is it! also sorry to keep asking questions lol - is there like an all day bus/tram ticket you can buy?
>> Anonymous
My aunt and her family lived their for a few years. While loading grociers into her car, another car decided that they were going to continue regardless of my aunt's door being open. She had to push my little cousin into the car along with herself. Her door got ripped off. The driver never did stop.

tl;dr The place is nice, but the people aren't(note not basing an entire nation off of this one incident, but this was really the highlight of what my aunt had to say about her experience over there).
>> Anonymous
>>42065
you're straight. you wouldn't understand.
anyway i'm sure there are plenty of prostitution services with actual men there who just don't happen to have a window rented.
>> Anonymous
I visited Amsterdam a few months ago with a friend who knows it. I'd like to wander around and see places but unfortunately we had very limited time and end up only visiting canals and red light district heh. I'm impressed it was in the middle of the city with tourist groups visiting it. Anyway I liked the city but is it me or are there only a few of places to visit?
>> Anonymous
>>42514
there are only a few places to visit if you just want to see whores and weed
>> Anonymous
Awesome small city, loved it! Went in 2001 when I was 14 and trying to discover my sexuality - at around about that point I figured i was gay seeing I didn't get turned on at the red light district.

NZfag, but holds a dutch passport too. Are there any skills in shortage over there OP?
>> Anonymous
>>42531
by the looks of this thread, they could use some gay whores over there. i guess that means you're in
>> Anonymous
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im from Spain ,last week i spent 2 days in Amsterdam, walk around all the city loved it ,all the people in bikes,all the city is clean and looks quiet, no gypsy scum no homeless not too much niggers and sandniggers, beautiful blond girls...

I dont know if the city is always like that but looks a cool place to live.
>> Anonymous
ir frm masterdam!

kneel before me!
>> Anonymous
>>42531
Well mostly traditionall trade like carpenters bricklayers shipyard workers etc,work you need to use your hands for. Everyone either studies IT or management or something and people who know the above trades are becoming a rare thing. So that might get you employed.

Funnily enough I am planning to work and live in NZ after I am done with college.
>> Anonymous
>>42565not too much niggers

Not many niggers? You sure it was Amsterdam cause it's swarming with them arround here. And Maroccans to.

>>42412
You can buy a strippenkaart they vary in price and you can use that when travelling just tell the bus driver tram person where you want to go and they will stamp the number of zones you need on your card. 1 strippenkaart should get you arround all day.

>>42368
I frequent these 2 (links) the royal cafe is especially nice but expensive. a bit expensive but that's Amsterdam for ya. Other than these I just visit brown cafe's ( old bars basicly) of which I never remember the name Another not very pretty cafe but a neat one is cafe de kalver toren it is located in a small shopping center on the kalver straat and the cafe is all the way at the top and offers a great view of Amsterdam. fun for a lunch but not recommended for nightly drinking.
http://www.heffer.nl/index.html
http://www.dekroon.nl/

Tip to anyone,it might seem fun to have a drink on dam square but for the love of god do not do it they charge 5 euro's for a small beer.
>> Anonymous
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>>42577

As i said im from Spain,in Amsterdam not too many in comparison to Barcelona for example, Spain looks like filthy Africa dude
>> Anonymous
>>42587
LOL I can understand. From what I hear on the news everyone in Africa who wants to come to europe goes to spain first. I do not envy spain.
>> Anonymous
I've been to Amsterdam. Was different from what I expected, but in a good way. People were actually pretty nice, despite me being an Amerifag. :]
>> Anonymous
Aformer colleague of mine spent some time in Amsterdam. He said you sick fucks eat your fries with mayo. Because of the metric system.
>> Anonymous
>>42602
We eat it like that because it's fucking tasty.
>> Anonymous
>>42614

I ate a bunch of food from those little boxes that you put money in. There was some kind of fried cheesy thing that I ate every day. I also had a pizza and it was disgusting. That's all I remember. It was 15 years ago.
>> Anonymous
>>42615
A kaassoufle (cheesesoufle),it is delicious.
>> Anonymous
>>42620

That sounds right. It was great, I remember it pretty clearly even though it was so long ago. I would get super stoned and then walk around and eat stuff. 3 months in Amsterdam at 17 years old ftw.
>> Anonymous
Mayo on fries is amazing, now if Holland would drop the bathroom fee and give you free drink refills then it would be the best country in the world.
>> Anonymous
>>42614
its even better with peanut butter and onion

patat oorlog ftw
>> Anonymous­­­­
so i hear you guys talking about the amazing brothels and what not but how safe is it? what are the odds that you penis will fall of after a visit?
>> Anonymous
>>42662
you can just use a condom?
>> Anonymous
Family from over there, hell-bent on learning the language and visiting asap, and possibly living elsewhere in the country for an extended period.

What's the crime really like? Tourist/foreigner info is always cleaned up.
>> Anonymous
>hell-bent on learning the language
1. Our language is apparently crazy hard to learn. Fukkan grammar and exceptions to it.
2. Everyone will speak English to you, even if you are trying to speak Dutch. "OH NO A FOREIGNER, I'LL SPEAK ENGLISH (well, a bastardization of it) SO HE UNDERSTANDS ME."

Good luck, anyway.
>> canttouchthis !AB5fTSvpY6
i had been told that hollands food is quite bland.anything you can recommend?
>> Anonymous
>>42755
Traditional food? yeah our food is pretty disgusting if you ask me.

>>42662
Oficciall non illegal slav hookers have to get checked for STD's every month.
>> Anonymous
>>42757
aren't the borders open? can there even be illegal slav immigrants in western europe anymore?
>> Anonymous
anyone know a cheap way to take a vacation there?

Cheap hotel/ticket?
>> Anonymous
Only to certain eastern european countries that just joined the EU.
>> Anonymous
>>42777
Illegal meaning they are forced into prostitution by pimps. They get lured here by organizations promising them good jobs and WHAM you're behind a window.
>> JAWESOME Anonymous
Been there thrice,

Allways wanted to see the sights, heineken museum, anne frank's house etc, but mostly spent my time getting pissed and stoned.

Been to the RLD a few (dozen) times, the whores are pretty hot, but all the Niggers and Turks milling around offering you drugs, and/or threatining to stab you make the ambience dirtyer. Never fucked any of the whores, Just went to a few (dozen) peep shows.

Went to the AJAX stadium to watch an international (the Dutch Vs. Rep. Ireland) Ireland won, friend got hit in the face with a sachet of mayo.

Got offered a stolen bike (fiets?) by a nigger, we told him to fuck off, he pulled a knife on us, me and my three buddies knocked him out with a beer bottle, and threw his shoes and pants into the canal.

TL'DR: Bebo and stroopwaffles rock, I will go there again to see the proper sites, whilst abstaining from whores and drugs, (not beer and stroopwaffles of course!)
>> Anonymous
>>42782
Bebo ? I guess you mean Febo ?
>> Anonymous
>>42826
That's the one, I remember getting something that resembled a breaded sausage, only it to be filled with a scalding cheese like substance.
>> Anonymous
are the taxi's expensive in amsterdam? oh and can you get a train from the airport to the centraal station,or do you have to get a bus?
>> Anonymous
>>43203

Taxi's are pretty expensive, but reliable as hell and more often than not really luxurious Mercs.
Most people go by train though, there's a direct connection between Schiphol and Amsterdam Central Station, as well as Schiphol to Duivendrecht.
>> Anonymous
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>>42836

You know you want it.

Also, fresh stroopwafels from the Albert Cuyp market are delicious.
>> Anonymous
>>43217
i was gonna say wtf is a stroopwafel.but il hazzard a guess and say its something sweet and sticky
>> canttouchthis !AB5fTSvpY6
>>43216
damit i wish i had you as a person guide lol. any other words of wisdom?
>> Anonymous
i came once during the Queens birthday celebrations. Best weekend ever. Awesome city.

Although the Hollander/The Netherlands thing is quite funny.
>> Anonymous
>>43236

Try the Korte Leidsedwarsstraat (aim for the Leidseplein if you want to find it) for cheap meals, mostly Italian restaurants.
In general, eat out and eat varied. The Dutch might have a bland cuisine but they make up for it by stealing loads of tasty food from everybody else, like Chinese/Indonesian food (some of the best can be found at or near the Red Light District, if I remember right) or Argentinian steakhouses.
>> Anonymous
>>43238

Forgot to add: For on-the-go meals (or a serious case of the munchies) there's always the Febo for traditional Dutch grease, döner/gyros stands or Falafel corners (either privately owned of part of the Maoz chain).
Also, at least one visit to Vleminckx Sausmeesters is mandatory to sample the best fries in town with a dazzling array of sauces. It's in the Voetboogstraat if you want to look it up.
>> Anonymous
>>43241
Mmmh, Vleminckx...
From Amsterdam to Amsterdamfag, you know your stuff
>> Anonymous
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>>43422

And another tip for the foreigners: Try v d Linde Banketbakkerij on the Nieuwendijk for the richest, creamiest ice cream you'll ever eat.
A real treat, and you'll wonder how a "regular" ice cream (that is, no additional flavours, just whipped cream) could ever taste this good.
>> Anonymous
sounds like a shithole full of potheads.
>> Anonymous
>>43452

Smells like jealousy. Reported for trollan.
>> Anonymous
>>43452

It's a very nice place with friendly people.
>> canttouchthis !AB5fTSvpY6
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>>43452
oddly enough i'm not going there for the weed(don't smoke)
not going for the hookers(i'm female) but i am going for the experience.and the waffles lol. so if anyone else has got any must see / must do i'd take it on board! pic related,i just bought it to vid the holiday.
>> Anonymous
Don't walk around watching your vacation through a little screen.
>> Anonymous
>>43466

If/when you get bored of the glitz and sin of the city centre, don't hesitate to stroll around the Vondelpark and beyond for a quiet café on a canal street or tiny local shops.
I'd might advise you to rent a bike, even, if you harbor only a moderate deathwish. Stick to the cycling lanes if you can, outside that it's total chaos and for seasoned Amsterdamfags only.
>> canttouchthis !AB5fTSvpY6
>>43468
ive rented an apartment near the vondelpark, on the j.v lennepkade.canal views : ) i didnt fancy being in the dead centre. whats the weather like for late aug/sept?ive heard amsterdam is very windy lol
>> canttouchthis !AB5fTSvpY6
>>43468
oh and p.s i cant ride a bike(in before wtf u cant ryde a biek) . so its public transport
>> Anonymous
>>43471

Last couple o' years it's been calm and sunny way into october. The joys of global warming, I guess...
Normally august is still summer-y while in september the sun turns a little bleaker and the wind gets a little stronger, but still bearable.
But like I said, nowadays you just don't know and there could be another not-so-freak heatwave.
>> Anonymous
so the bulldog places are to be given a miss.any little jem places for some nice weed?
>> Anonymous
>>43466

At least hit up these three museums: Rijksmuseum, Van Gogh Museum, Anne Frank House. All good stuff.

>>43537
I frankly know nothing about weed, but the shops that specialized in selling it had a variety of types. Just look at the prices and ask the shopkeeper for his advice.
>> Anonymous
>>43467
this made me lol for some reason
>> Anonymous
haven't visited it yet, but plan on doing so in the future

since i'm a /belg/fag, it's not too far
>> ­
RLD is one crazy fucking place

The amount of junkies and general crazy people there is insane
>> Anonymous
any news on those gay prostitutes? i refuse to believe that there are NONE in ALL of holland.
>> Anonymous
I'm from Johannesburg currently living in Amsterdam, this city can be ruthless in even by my standards. (niggers carrying guns everywhere, highest crime rate on the planet. Welcome to South Africa etc.)

So don't come here thinking its a grown up Disneyland, motherfucking crack addicts will cut you if you don't keep your wits about you.
>> Anonymous
I'm from Ampsterdam

It's nothing

It's boring that's all i can say

And yeah...You can go to a cafe and get legal drugs?

Ok so are you happy:?:

kids
>> Anonymous
Also i would like to say

Watch out for niggers and people with tanned skin = Moroccans

Chances are...You look them in the eyes...They pull a knife - End of story

SO just ingore them and continue

If you realize a nigger is following your or a moroccan

Run fast - Because you're going to get shanked and will most likely bleed to death
>> Anonymous
>>43804
PLEASE RESPOND
>> canttouchthis !AB5fTSvpY6
>>43827
shit that sounds pretty drastic! are there any places you would recommend avoiding?and what does the OP think of this statement?
>> Anonymous
I visited Amsterdam for three days about exactly a year ago. I loved it. I live in Seattle, and our downtown has plenty of concrete. But Amsterdam's downtown was awesome. The canals, the buildings..it was great. I stayed at a hostel called the Flying Pig which was very centrally located.
Good beer and good weed helps of course. the anne frank house was boring as shit.
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
Amsterdam is one of the coolest cities in the entire world - the people are about as welcoming as they come, and there's everything you want from a major european city: museums, art, markets, bal bla bla.

The drug policy is a side issue really, although it has the negative effect of bringing all kinds of gutter trash from UK, Germany, Belgium and elsewhere coming over on stag week-ends for the drugs and hookers, then vamiting in the streets, attacking passers-by and generally being oikish. That said, the fact that they usually mix skunk with their beer means they're maybe a bit less rowdy than in Hamburg or Talinn, for example.

The thing about the smoking ban is true - you are no longer allowed to smoke tobacco in enclosed public spaces (same law applies in a lot of EU states now). You are however allowed to smoke cannabis, and the dutch municipalities have actually trained people to sniff out tobacco. If you mix cigarettes with your drugs in Holland, you could end up Van Party V&. If you don't enjoy amsterdam, you're probably in the back of an ambulance with a blanket on your face. Only, when you come, be nice, eh?
>> Anonymous
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>>44394
oh yeah, and like someone else said above, don't fuck with the local boys, or they'll fuck with you. and bad. watch out for the canals late at night. Everyone thinks the dutch are all like "hey man, chill, we can work this out peacefully", but they ain't - there's some proper nutcases there. Try to avoid looking german if you can help it as well.

Someone else mentioned vondelpark - there was a law passed there recently that having sex in public (a local tradition) was ok within the vondelpark, including cruising, the judge was quick to clarify. However, letting your dog of the leash is now illegal, because of the hazard to children presented. Oh god, you got to love the Dutch. They're just so damn RIGHT about everything, and anyone who says they're not is just a jealousfag
>> Anonymous
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Pannekoeke and poffertjes (two types of pancakes).

Poffertjes are like God just came in your mouth. They're that good. I'd kill my grandma for a plate right now.

mmmmmm, poffertjes
>> Anonymous
>>44400
>I'd kill my grandma for a plate right now.

I think you would kill her anyway.

I know I would kill mine.
>> Anonymous
already did it actually. bitch ws holding out on the last poffertje - the one with extra sugar. bitch just plain got in my way.
>> Anonymous
>>44405

You're going to hell
>> canttouchthis !AB5fTSvpY6
>>44400
i don't know what they taste like- but shit do i really really want one of those! ive got a feeling when im there i gonna be scarfin like a pig lol
>> Anonymous
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>>44411

been there, done that. Spent 3 weeks in Grimsby
>> Anonymous
>>44415
wow.. it's got "grim" right in the name. and it's not even a foreign place name.
why are the english so good at cultivating all those things which decay the human soul?
>> Anonymous
Never been, but I'd like to check it out. I've heard that it's easy to smoke weed and hash in Amsterdam, and that prostitutes are legal in certain places (more so than in the United States, anyway.)
Also, what's the difference between Holland and Amsterdam? Is Amsterdam a city?
>> Anonymous
>>41999
I went a few years ago. Got bored with the weed and stoned retard tourists pretty fast (idiots sleeping in my bed etc) but the city is nice, I like the canals and the architecture a lot. I went to a drum and bass party in a squat, definitely the cleanest squat I've ever seen.
>> Anonymous
>>44452
>Also, what's the difference between Holland and Amsterdam? Is Amsterdam a city?

Holland is a province, divided into North-Holland and South-Holland.
Amsterdam is the capital city.

>>44329
Chances are that you, as a tourist, won't end up in suburbs like Slotervaart or the Bijlmer, but avoid 'em anyway.
Delinquent Morrocans and Antillians all but own those places (but for some reason, trouble with Turks is limited. They seem to start up small shops and businesses and generally seem to do well. Especially with the Germans always raging about Turks ruining their shit, you have to wonder why?)
In general, behave like you would in a large city. Be mildly vigilant, watch for pickpockets or muggers, don't just cruise into every area at night, etc.
>> AAAAAAmsterdam Meadow
Yea, was there 3 times, with 16 for the weed and the bitches, with 21 together with my bitch for the weed and with 24, because my bitch stolen my weed and I wanted to get a change before getting paranoia.

But really a nice place, Amsterdam...
>> Anonymous
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>>44452

prostitution is not only legal, but protected in the same way as any business enterprise. If you ever feel you've been robbed, ripped off or badly treated in a Dutch brothel, you can complain to the police and something will usually be done about it. On the other side of it, the prostitutes and brothelkeepers aren't afraid to call copper. Never believe you'll get away with something cos it's "only a hooker". Dutch sex workers pay tax, have unions and are as respectable as any other citizen.
>> Anonymous
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>>44436

britfags have Scunthorpe too, imagine trying to fall in love there...
>> Anonymous
>>44452Also, what's the difference between Holland and Amsterdam?

Why am I not surprised you're only interested in going for the psuedo-legal weed?
>> Anonymous
>What's the difference between Holland and Amsterdam?
>> Anonymous
I spent a month in Amsterdam and it seems like the only thing you really can do there is drugs, but otherwise it´s very boring. Quite clean and I think the dutch are the most hospitible people in the world. I´d go back but not for more than a week.
>> Anonymous
>>45020
It stinks of piss.
>> Anonymous
>>45020

Architecture nuts disagree.
>> Anonymous
>>45218

I'm not even even into architecture but I certainly thought the buildings were interesting, old and new. I didn't find it boring at all. But I enjoy getting stoned and wandering around, and if one doesn't, than perhaps it isn't so exciting.