File :-(, x, )
Sorry for posting this in the other guys, thread Anonymous
Salutations /trv/, I live in the United States (also a citizen) and I've noticed that in the prior 20+ years this country has become a silent police state. Or, nanny state as the British would call theirs. I
've been doing some research and I've come to the conclusion that my best bet to keep my political freedom, I have to move out.

These two threads touch upon the subject:
>>31850
>>31153

No doubt this type of atmosphere is growing. But my idea is not that my destination shouldn't be "a nice country" I want to live in a country that is free. Where the elected officials would get impeached for grievous offenses.

As noted in earlier threads, the Scandinavian countries and OZ/NZ seem like citizen-friendly places to live. But I've been thinking of other places as well.
Countries such as Canada, and perhaps some South American countries.

My main criteria is that the countries should be socialist and perhaps more importantly, pro-education.

Also if such a place doesn't exist then my bad.
Comment too long. Clickhereto view the full text.
>> Anonymous
>socialist
I think you are confusing social-democracy with socialism, as you're American, but if you aren't the only semi-socialist state with an elected body is Venezuela. But you should focus more on real freedoms rather than the illusionary stuff...
>> Anonymous
>>32888
> you are confusing [...] as you're American

lol wut
>> Anonymous
>>32883
Uh, it really depends on where you live in the states. California is indeed a european-style police state, so is Illinois and some other states.

Go for the rural, red-states in fly-over country and the state laws lax up significantly. Colorado, Alaska, Montana and Idaho have very few restrictive laws. You can walk around with a ounce of weed in your pocket in Alaska and show it to the cops and its not even illegal...

Try checking out the other states before you freak out and move to some other foriegn policestate. You are unlikely to find a country with more freedom then America, except in South America (good choice) or Somalia (bad ending)

Wait, you want a Socialist country? Try Germany, I guess, but they are not so happy to see more brown foriegn people enter their country anymore. You can't have socialism without a policestate. the two concepts work together.

No such place exists.
>> OP Anonymous
>>32888

Not really illusionary, those "freedoms" can be attained. I'm a huge fan of Rawls's Liberty Principle.
But when it comes to socialism, I just think that if a country is going to tax me, it should be for the benefit of society as a whole, like medical care and education. Not for some pork barrel projects, or illegal wars in the Persian Gulf...

Uncorrupted is what I'm looking for. And New Zealand ranks pretty high,atleast in public perceptions. But what I'm asking for is what about Canada and the other places I mentioned.

Any natives to the prospective places that can say they actually like the job their government does?
>> Anonymous
>>32888
>>32889
Not helping the OP.
Anyway, I recommend Scandinavia (+ Finland). Acording to some studies they are the most free countries in the planet. Education is of very high quality (and free) and most people speak very good english. Only cons I can think of are culture shock (well, not so great a culture shock since we are all western countries...) and the fact people tend to be reserved (to some extend) towards foreigners (not so much in Sweaden or Denmark I suppose?).
>> Anonymous
>>32891

I'm not really freaking out, I've always wanted to move somewhere anyways, this isn't entirely about putting on tin-foil hats.

As for Germany, I feel as if they're headed towards the European Union; which is a bad thing in my opinion because the EU is something very akin to the US. Very bureaucratic and all.

The thing about the United States is that as I've said, the past 20 years havn't been very friendly to the population as a whole. The conservative government has basically stripped away the Bill of Rights in many different ways.

A nation where the citizens really can say and do what they want without having to think about "others feelings".
>> OP Anonymous
>>32895
Pretty much what I thought I was going to get but are there other countries outside the western realm of influence? Also Northern Europe has some pretty strict immigration laws. I heard that even if you marry a native it will be difficult to become a citizen. T/F?
>> Anonymous
>>32897
Oh, your taking the whole "Political correctness" thing and seeing it as a violation of free speech. I can dig that.

Too bad thats pretty much wide-spread everywhere. Its even worst in Europe. Better move back to El Salvador or Argentina or something. Maybe Venezuila if your hard-up on the socialism thing.
>> Anonymous
Prostitution is legal in New Zealand. Go get some whores.
>> OP Anonymous
>>32901
El Salvador's political system is dominated by political families, not exactly a "citizen-friendly" type place, but harmless to the international community, at least.

I'm not really that hard up on the socialism, but I don't think movie stars should be making 30mil a movie while there's homeless on the streets.

Lewis Black said it best when he said Americans just don't understand that type of thinking.
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
Grow the fuck up.

Every Western country with decent living standards has the whole "political correctness" thing. That doesn't mean they are going to turn into police states. Instead of running away from an imaginary enemy, grow the fuck up, get into university, get a good job, and become a useful member of society and an intelligent voter.

You think you have it bad in the US?
Well, people in Cambodia, Indonesia, Venezuela or every other third world country have it much worse. Just take a look at the human development index... high child mortality rates... lower health standards... no democracy... a real lack of free speech...

Why do you think your family went to America from El Salvador? Because it's much worse over there, fucktard!

Grow the fuck up and stop daydreaming. You may get better living standards in other developed (dark green) countries, but adapting to a new language and culture just because of a paranoid fear is just not worth the hassle.

Grow the fuck up.
There is no "freedom" to be found in poor countries, that's why they come here.
>> Anonymous
> "I want to live in a country that is free."

No country is free. You'll have to pick the one closest to freedom, but it is often a matter of opinion.
>> Anonymous
>>32907
No, I hear you, I'm an Amerifag, and a rabidly patriotic one at that. I think the system is imperfect, but I think its wrong to bail out of this country because of it. No system is perfect, I've lived in Germany for 2 years and it certianly has its upside, but I could not tolerate to live there.

It might sound kinda defeatist, but I think a part of being mature adult is accepting things for what they are and not taking authority and society as something negative.

Your mostly right about Central america, but you might want to try some places in Brazil, Argentina, Chile, ect. Those places are actually suprisingly well-run and have competant and generally well-meaning people in charge. Brazil in particular is a very moderate left-wing country.

But pretty much any culture, and country, the assholes running it are never going to agree on everything, and every system is going to be fucked up in some way. There are no utopias on this planet. It all depends on what rights and priviliages and conditions your willing to live with.
>> Anonymous
>>32910
There are 2 million Brazilian illegals in the US.
More people are murdered in Brazil every year than the total number of civilians that died in the first three years of the Iraq War. Amnesty International has denounced the miserable conditions of their prison system, the high levels of official corruption, and the prevalence of torture and illegal detention in the police force.

http://tiny.cc/KIkRY

The only people willing to move to the third world from a first world country are either insane, in love, assholes willing to profit from the poor people there, or a combination of these three. If you don't like the policies of your country work to change them, jumping to another place won't help you, specially if this place has lower living standards than yours.

Fuck... 8% of Brazilians suffer from hunger... and you are complaining about ruthless capitalism in America????
>> OP Anonymous
>>32912
>>32908

As I said earlier, this isn't totally about wearing a tin foil hat and running away. I have always wanted to live somewhere else. And I'm inquiring of a place that's better (if it exists) than the US.
>> Anonymous
>>32913
Once you cross the line of "developed" and "developing", better becomes something very subjective. No country in the world will guarantee you better living standards if you are not willing to work your ass off.

Basically, take a look at the map in>>32908and pick any dark green country you like the most. To me, Finland and most of Scandinavia sound like good choices, and so does Switzerland. But no country is paradise, you have to work your ass off anywhere you go.

Most developed countries can give you a good opportunity at life... but the important thing is that you are leaving because you want to experience something different. Not because you think you will find better living standards... being an immigrant is hard work in any country.
>> Anonymous
i bet you would stop being socialist if you started to pay european level of taxes
>> Anonymous
>>32908

harsh, but true
>> Anonymous
>>32912
Horrible shit happens in any free country. Brazil allows its people a huge amount of freedom not seen in most developing countries. Thats why you get the problems that country has. If you enjoy a police state with no freedoms, you'll have a low crime rate. When you let the peasents and undesirables do as they wish, expect crime rates and trouble.

Again, its what your willing to sacrifice to gain. If you hate freedom, don't live in America or Brazil. Better move to China or Pakistan "just to be safe" if your horrified with the idea of seeing brownish people on the streets, move to Sweden.

There are shitty places and nice places in every city. My grandfather lives in Brazil. Loves it. He has yet to have been kidnapped and murdered by drug cartels or shot by communist rebels.

What kind of country you want to live in? Sweden doesn't want your uneducated, non-native laungauge speaking ass sucking up their benefits while you point and grunt at shit.

People migrate to America for a reason. People usually don't leave unless they have some sort of communist bellyfeel they think they have to express somewhere.
>> Anonymous
>>32921

can you give any examples of this freedom in brazil? i didnt know anything about it...
>> Anonymous
>>32924
Because there's no such thing. They score terribly in press freedom indexes and corruption surveys. Just because the police force there is incompetent and won't bother to prosecute your white American ass doesn't mean the country is "free". It simply means that it's such a corrupt country that will let foreigners get away with anything.

If that's your thing, go live there. But that's not freedom. That's corruption and incompetence.
>> Anonymous
For a South American country, id say Argentina. Its as free as Brazil but doesn't have as much problems, and many people speak english.
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
I live in Canada. And while you include this in your OP, Canada is on the same sinking ship as the United States, at least in the long term. However, in terms of democratic freedoms I think we're better off than the US. We have multiple parties in Parliament, at the federal and provincial level.

Anyway, I recommend you check out various indices of freedom, as well as the HDI. I've compiled various indices in picture form for your perusal.
>> Anonymous
>>32941
Oh, and also, use indices as a guideline only. These are usually based on a set of specific criteria, and for instance while France and Mongolia are both "Moderately Free" they may be moderately free for different reasons.
>> Anonymous
>>32941
Holy crap, mexico is average at everything, I feel like... average
>> Anonymous
>>32943
On the bright side, your wimmens have greater than average bottoms.
>> Anonymous
>>32944
until they hit their expiration date at like age 23, like all third world bitches
>> Anonymous
>>32946

Pretty much applies to all women
>> Anonymous
>>32946
Fair enough.