File :-(, x, )
Anonymous
Brad Lidge

48 Opportunities. 48 Saves. World Series Champion.

The best closing-pitching performance in a single season. Period.

Deal with it.
>> Anonymous
Not happening again.

Phillies had their Perfect Storm. Enjoy 28 more years of mediocrity.
>> Anonymous
>The best closing-pitching performance in a single season. Period.

See Mariano Rivera 1998.
>> Anonymous
>>440881
It was 25 years cockfag
>> Anonymous
>>440888
this. though you can't deny that Lidge had an amazing season closing games.
>> Anonymous
>>440881
>>440912
25 for the city
28 for the phillies
>> Anonymous
>>440917
true enough
>> Anonymous
>>440888

>See Mariano Rivera 1998.

Lidge: 48/48. 1.95 ERA. 92 Strikeouts.

Rivera: 36/36. 1.91 ERA. 36 Strikeouts.
>> Anonymous
>>440888

>See Mariano Rivera 1998.

Keep in mind that Lidge pitches in a toy ballpark, much less forgiving than Yankee stadium.
>> Anonymous
>>440923

/thread
>> Anonymous
>>440923

Not to mention, the Phillies won 92 games this season.

The Yankees won 125 games in 1998.

Rivera wasn't asked to do nearly as much as Lidge was.
>> Anonymous
>>440947
125? wat?

114-48
>> Anonymous
>>440948

>>440948

I think the Yankees playoff victories were added to that total.

Yankees reg. season was 114. Phillies reg season was 92.
>> Anonymous
>>440954
I see. Since I saw only the phillies reg. season wins, I thought he was comparing only reg. season.
>> HKK !h7MHU9L/Oo
Dennis Eckersley 1990: 48 Saves, 0.61 ERA, 0.614 WHIP, 73 K's, 44 Base Runners Allowed

Brad Lidge 2008: 41 Saves, 1.95 ERA, 1.226 WHIP, 92 K's, 86 Base Runners Allowed

Not even fucking close.
>> Chocolate Hitler !!WCFvcOo5Pka
You're all stupid, it was the 2008 K-Rod.

Record, bitches!
>> Anonymous
The question is what were the general spread of the games Rivera saved and the possible games he could have saved and didn't. As witnessed on Sunday Lidge could have 49 saves, but they didn't use him with the 8 point spread. The saves statistic doesn't really hold as much water if there isn't a minimum spread needed for it to count,.
>> Anonymous
>>440962
This. Baseball comes down to numbers, this numbers are pretty fucking convincing.
>> Anonymous
>>440962
And 2 blown saves. I am not arguing that his numbers don't make him impresses, maybe even better than Lidge, but you are ignoring one of the stats that makes Lidge impressive.
>> HKK !h7MHU9L/Oo
>>440971

Lidge has double the WHIP and an ERA a run and a third higher than Ecks. I'll take those two blown saves in a fucking heartbeat.
>> Anonymous
>>440971

As in, 'none'? Look at the fucking WHIP! Lidge must have stepped in dog shit before every game. If he has one hit land in one unfortunate spot his ERA balloons. Lidge had godly luck this season.
>> Anonymous
>>440971
are you fucking retarded?
>> Anonymous
>>440978
Half. The other half is blind loyalty. Baseball is a game of skill and luck. When they used Lidge he did what they needed him to: close the game. He did it perfectly, regardless of the rocky territory he had to climb to get it.
>> Anonymous
>>440974
2 blown saves and the phillies may not make the playoffs.
>> HKK !h7MHU9L/Oo
>>440981

So even though Eckersly blows him out of the fucking water in WHIP and ERA, the two most telling stats of a closer, you're going with Lidge because of two saves? I'm not saying Lidge was bad this year but to say he had the best year ever for a closer is blind homerism. Ecks in 1990 along with quite a few others had better seasons. Not blowing a save is nice and all but let's be honest, would anybody take Tom Gordon from 1998 over 1990 Ecks because he blew one save compared to two? No, of course not.
>> Anonymous
>>440990
Not to mention you need to look at the context. Lidge pitches in the NL, less offensive, overall shittier, harder to blow a save.
>> Anonymous
>>440968
You say baseball comes down to numbers. Okay, that may be true for direct comparison of players over time. Ruiz had a hitting average of .219 over the regular season. In the World Series he had .417. Regular season he had 4 home runs, and in the world series he had 1. You can argue his worth as a player based upon his statistics over the season. Okay, I am going off into the tangent into the comparing which team is better argument. But this is supposed to go with the fact that Lidge never blew a save this season is a statistic that should be viewed highly, as well as try to diminish the use of statistics. I was a football fan long before a baseball fan. You can call me a bandwagon fan for starting to pay attention last year, but I contribute to the fact all of my friends at college are baseball fans and so I started paying attention to it.
>> Anonymous
>>440995
You wouldn't want to pick Ruiz over, for example, Ivan Rodriguez in any of his great seasons, because Ruiz had a better performance in the playoffs one year. We're disscussing best closing pitching performance in a season overall. Wich is not Lidge's.
>> HKK !h7MHU9L/Oo
>>440996

This; despite the typos.
>> Anonymous
>>440996
Yeah. Sorry for the tangent. I don;t even know what I was trying to do anymore. All I am trying to say is that the fact Lidge had a perfect record for saves this season, which should be viewed highly. I would prefer having a pitcher that, even though you have doubts as he does it, always closes vs one who you assume will close but then can pull the blown saved out of his ass. I am going to admit hands down Eckersley is the better pitcher, but the fact that Lidge never blew a save and Eckersley did is enough to argue Lidge as being equal or better because he did what he needed to, even if it was sloppy.
>> HKK !h7MHU9L/Oo
>>441001

If we're going with not blowing a save in a season then Eric Gagne in 2003 makes Lidge his bitch:

55 Saves, 1.20 ERA, 0.692 WHIP, 137 K's, 60 Base Runners Allowed
>> Anonymous
>>441000
Fuck I just saw those. Still a pretty decent line of thought for a 5am post.
>> Anonymous
Lidge, Gagne, Rivera, and Eckersley have all had an amazing season unique in their own right. can we stop quoting stats at each other?
>> Anonymous
>>441018
Impossible. That's what arguing in baseball's all about.
>> Chocolate Hitler !!WCFvcOo5Pka
Platoon closer at best.
>> Anonymous
Phillies:

Platoon champions at best.
>> Anonymous
>>441021
>>441024
Huuuh... Okay, I am mainly a /co/ and /tg/ lurker, and only came here because of the World Series. But what is the orgin of "only a platoon xxxx at best" come from?
>> HKK !h7MHU9L/Oo
>>441036

Your's truly when I point out how much Howard sucks against lefties.
>> Anonymous
>>441040
Okay that I saw then, unless it was before the World Series. Is that all there is too it? I hate sounding like an idiot, but what was it meaning?
>> Anonymous
>>441036
mostly used in sarcasm now.

Ted Williams was a platoon player at best.
>> Anonymous
>>441043
It's a Platoon meme at best.
>> HKK !h7MHU9L/Oo
>>441043

No, I coined it when dissecting Howard, I never intended it to be used for anything further. But apparently it's used for sarcastic purposes now and I'm starting to do the same for some strange reason.
>> Anonymous
>>441051
4chan. It's inevitable.
>> Anonymous
>>441051
I meant where did platoon come from. I suck at being specific at 6 AM...
>> Anonymous
>>441058
if you mean the definition, it's when two or more players share time at a position based on fielding ability, who's pitching (lefty/righty), or other attributes.
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
You forgot one man, my friend.
>> HKK !h7MHU9L/Oo
>>441058

The term platoon in baseball has been around forever. It refers to a player who splits time with another because of lack of skill in a certain area.
>> Anonymous
>>441059
Okay. I probably should have just tried to google it. Sorry for my ignorance, I just started following after coming to college, and mainly followed games by the online trackers.
>> Anonymous
>>441064
well now you know. its better that you ask questions than have you pretend to know what you're talking about an sound like an idiot so no need to apologize.
>> HKK !h7MHU9L/Oo
>>441064

It's fine and sorry for deleting a post on you. I hate having typos in anything I post.

>>441067

Yep.
>> Anonymous
>>440990

You fail for comparing eras. This is a much more hitter happy era than when Ecks played and the Phillies also play in a bam box where the home runs run like water.

After considering these things, I'd say that Lidge was just as impressive as Ecks......if not more so.

YOU CAN'T COMPARE ERA'S IN BASEBALL!!!
>> Anonymous
>>440962
But Eckersley didn't win a ring that year lulz. He didn't pitch at CBP either.
>> Anonymous
>>441003

Also didn't win a ring
>> Delicious Cake !89KlifghYk
>>441121
Brad Lidge 2008: 225 ERA+
Dennis Eckersley 1990: 606 ERA+
>> Delicious Cake !89KlifghYk
>>441151
Forgot to add that even adjusted for park and era, Eckersley still had a much better year in '90 than Lidge did in '08.

And this is coming from a hueg Phillies fan.
>> Anonymous
>>441151
>>441152
But did he win a ring in 1990?
>> Anonymous
>>441061
If we wanted a topic about hillbillies we would have made one.
>> Anonymous
>>441163

What a stupid fucking argument. HURR DURR, DIDNT WIN A RING? YOU MUST BE THE WORST PLAYER EVAR.
>> Anonymous
>>441171
no i'm not sayin' that... he's still an amazing player, and he won a ring in 1989... but he didn't have the perfect season in 1990... Brad Lidge did in 2008
>> Anonymous
>>441177

I was unaware that as a closer he also batted 1-9 and pitched the first 8 innings also.
>> Anonymous
Phillies won a platoon World Series at best
>> Anonymous
>>441178
What the fuck does that have to do with having a perfect season? I didn't say he single handedly won it all...
>> Anonymous
Closers are just fucking babies that think, just because they're clutch, they only have to pitch one inning per outing.

Sure there are a few that pitch three or so, but the vast majority throw one inning and collect huge checks.
>> Anonymous
>>440990
isnt the point of a closer to CLOSE games... as in WIN them. I'd rather a closer who WINS every single time he comes out there but leaves up hits etc. than a great pitcher (walk/hits wise) when he wins but loses sometimes.

who cares how many walks, hits, runs are left up as long as they win. I'd take 100% win over 90 some percent any day


THE POINT OF A CLOSER IS TO FINISH THE GAME.... YOU CANT BEAT 100% CLOSE RATE
>> Anonymous
>>441021
>>441024
i fukken lold
>> Kilgamayan !2BklmILFiE
Still waiting for someone to dispute the 2003 Gagne > 2008 Lidge statement.

Hint: Rings are a team accomplishment, and thus don't factor.
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
>>441189
many lulz sir, many lulz
>> Anonymous
>>440962
That settles it. No longer up for discussion.
>> Anonymous
>>441228
Rings are the only reason you play for dipshit.
>> Sneak !!+y8MDiWrdyT
>>441273

>Money is the only reason you play for dipshit.

fixed for the sad truth.
>> Anonymous
this thread is full of platoon tripfags
>> Sneak !!+y8MDiWrdyT
>>441355

/sp/ is a platoon forum at best
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
>>441356
>> Anonymous
platoon |pl??to?n| verb [ trans. ]
(in baseball and other sports) have (an athlete) play in rotation with one or more teammates at the same position : he was underrated because of Stengel’s platooning him with Woodling.
• [ intrans. ] play a sport in this way : Polonia mostly platooned in his three years with the A's.

ORIGIN mid 17th cent.: from French peloton ‘platoon,’ literally ‘small ball,’ diminutive of pelote.

HOLY SHIT PLATOON COMES FROM SMALL BALL FFFFFFFFFFFFFF
>> Anonymous
So, OP, Lidge is the best closer for the single fact the Phillies were unable to win 48 games by more than 3 runs?
>> Anonymous
>>440974
You'll take TWO LOSSES over none? HURPA DERP.
>> Anonymous
HKK is a platoon troll at best
>> Anonymous
I'm pretty happy for Brad Lidge. He deserved a ring for his unstoppable slider. This moment makes me so angry at the Astro's owner for letting him and other people who were part of the 2005 team go. Fuck you Drayton McClane, you just set the Astros back probably 40 years
>> Anonymous
>>441453
You'd take 48 won games over 62? HURPA DERP
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
Don't worry /sp/ leave Brad Lidge to me. I'll put him back in his place next season.
>> HKK !h7MHU9L/Oo
>>441453

You can blow a save and still win the game you unbelievable shithead.
>> HKK !h7MHU9L/Oo
>>441125
>>441163
>>441177

I had no clue the closer was sole reason any team won a ring. Holy shit, Brad Lidge is more valuable than Ted Williams.
>> Anonymous
>>441636
you're a shit head. I didnt even make that post and i'll defend it because you're such a faggot.

choose one:
100% chance of win when closer comes in
96% chance of win when closer comes in

walk, hits, everything else means absolute SHIT if when a dude walks in from the bullpen you FUCKING WIN 100% OF THE TIME


die in a fire you trolling stat faggot
>> Anonymous
>>441660
i'll second the notion that HKK should die

he's a PLATOON faggot at best
>> Anonymous
eric gange of the future
>> Anonymous
>>441635

Which team won that NLCS?
>> HKK !h7MHU9L/Oo
>>441660
>>441662

brb not understanding stats and closer performances
>> Anonymous
ITT: People who think the save stat is worth shit.
>> Anonymous
>>441843
BRB my mom is yelling at me from upstairs
>> Anonymous
>>441896
Even if his life is utterly pathetic, it doesn't make him any less right.
>> ­­
     File :-(, x)
>>441635
lidge...i am 'e coming for 'e joo
>> Anonymous
>>441906
how is he right?
Eckersley had better 'stats'... the only stat that should matter for a CLOSER is the WIN.

If I had a choice between a guy who had trillions of strikeouts, next to no walks, but lost a game here and there OR a guy who left up hits, walked people but found a way to win 100% of the time...


HUURRR DURR.... im taking the guy who gaurentees us wins, since you win a World Series by WINNING 11 playoff games, not having the most strikeouts.


this whole thread is platoon at best anyways
>> Anonymous
>>441939
Teams that go into the 9th with a lead no bigger than 3 runs have had a 96% chance of winning for decades anyway. It just so happens that Lidge was placed in the position where he had to get 3 outs and already had 96% probability of doing that backing him anyway.

I'm not saying he's not good, i'm just saying closers are pussies and saves is a tin pot statistic.
>> Anonymous
100>96


9=8?
>> HKK !h7MHU9L/Oo
>>441939

Same logic:

Brandon Webb was the best pitcher in the NL this season because he had the most wins.
>> Anonymous
>>441939
>the only stat that should matter for a CLOSER is the WIN.
>for a
>CLOSER is the WIN.
>CLOSER WIN

if the closer is getting the win he's doing it wrong. but i'm sure you meant the save.
>> Anonymous
Phillies are fags.
>> Anonymous
As a Metsfag, I pray we can get someone thats 80% of last year's Lidge. Failpen cost us a real shot at the division.

That said, grats the the Phillies, you guys earned it. AL is the superior league they said...
>> Anonymous
>>442316

Yeah, as a Phillyfag I obviously HATE the Mets. However I would root for them if they made it to the world series.

National League pride baby!!! Screw the teams, the DH, and everything about the AL.
>> Anonymous
>>442130

/thread

Consider Lidgefags owned
>> Anonymous
>>442318

As the Metsfag you replied to I will admit to rooting, albeit grudgingly, for the Phillies in the series.

After admitting that, I feel dirty and need a shower.
>> Godspeed You! Chinese Communist !!VKHtgYbiSfh
I'm not too much into MLB, but I find it annoying that every single year there's a new team winning the World Series. Horrible teams becoming top tier teams in the span of a year. I guess I'm just used to the dynasties and long lasting greatness like in the NBA and NFL.
>> Anonymous
lidge wasnt top 3 in the league. wake the fuck up!
>> Anonymous
>>442419

Dynasties aren't common in baseball. Batters fail mostly 7 out of 10 times at bat. The last baseball 'dynasty' was the late 90's Yankees and even they needed help from the rest of the league to prevail.
>> Anonymous
>>442001
You apprently can't grasp simple concepts.
>> Anonymous
>>442223
as a matter of fact i did.
it was getting late

please see>>441225
>> Anonymous
>>442325
starting pitchers job: pitch game to win
since many starters dont go a complete game anymore, starters job: have lead as late into game as possible

closers job: keep lead to get win.

a closers save percentage is much more telling of his success than a starting pitchers WINS. the starting pitcher cant control how his team hits etc. a closer comes in with the lead and his job is to prevent runs from scoring. A save means he did that, a 100% save rate means he does it everytime.

hurrrrrrr
>> HKK !h7MHU9L/Oo
>>442540

I hope it gets through your thick head, and I doubt it will since you're a Phillies fan, that Ecks had more save opportunities than Lidge, thus more chances to blow a save. Lidge had a great year but to say it's the best year ever for a closer is a load of homer bullshit.
>> Chocolate Hitler !!WCFvcOo5Pka
     File :-(, x)
>>442427
>> Anonymous
>>442549
I never said he had the best year ever. I'm not OP. I had been commenting on you throwing out stats saying Ecks was better based on the fact he had better WHIP and ERA.

No matter what the stats were, perfection is perfection

sorry, math wins this round.... 100>96
>> HKK !h7MHU9L/Oo
>>442580

Rod Beck in 1994 went 28 for 28 in save chances. Have you ever once heard someone bring up that season as the best ever or better than Eckersley godly 1990 season?
>> Anonymous
>>442583
you just brought it up
>> HKK !h7MHU9L/Oo
>>442584

You missed the point. Just because a closer didn't blow a save during the season doesn't automatically make that season one of the best ever. Do you really think Rob Back in 1994 was better than Mariano Rivera at any point during his career based solely on the fact that he didn't blow a save?
>> Anonymous
isnt the point of a closer to made saves?

going 28 for 28 or 30 for 30 or anything seems damn good to me.

i'd rather a guy who saves every opportunity than someone who does not
>> Anonymous
>>442586
>didnt blow a save


exactly
>> Anonymous
>>442586
i think not blowing a save actually does make it a great season.... and the higher the number of saves goes the greater it becomes...


28 of 28 is good
48 of 48 is better
if someone gets 60 of 60... HOORAH!
>> HKK !h7MHU9L/Oo
>>442590

So you'd rather have Rod Beck in 1994 than Mariano Rivera during any season of his career?
>> HKK !h7MHU9L/Oo
>>442593

Gagne went 55 for 55. On top of that, you've implied that the number save opportunities don't matter, as long as you convert them.
>> Anonymous
>>442595
does my team need 28 saves in 28 opportunities to win the world series?

or can they handle some FAIL blown saves from a less than perfect closer?
>> Anonymous
>>442597
you're way too into stats...

what do all the stats in the world mean if the closer doesnt get the job done on a particular night... or 5 nights? or 8?

also, all the poor stats in the world dont matter if my closer comes in and gets the job done EVERY TIME
>> Anonymous
booyah
>> Anonymous
Why are we still talking about baseball? It's over, let more exciting sports take over.
>> Anonymous
bump for lack of HKK butthurt responses

gimme gimme gimme
>> Anonymous
>48 Opportunities. 48 Saves. World Series Champion.

>World Series Champion.

People seem to be forgetting.
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
>Dennis Eckersley 1990: 48 Saves, 0.61 ERA, 0.614 WHIP, 73 K's, 44 Base Runners Allowed

Eckersley was pitching against dogshit in a cavernous ballpark.

The Phillies clinched the division on game #161, in an intense division chase. Lidge saved 41 games in 92 wins by the Phillies in a toy ballpark.

Cry more. Bay-area baseball is shit.
>> Anonymous
LET THIS THREAD DIE
>> Anonymous
As an Astros fan it makes me incredibly depressed that Bruntlett scored the winning run and Lidge saved it. With the fucking phillies. Damn it.
>> Anonymous
>>443414

>As an Astros fan it makes me incredibly depressed that Bruntlett scored the winning run and Lidge saved it. With the fucking phillies. Damn it.

How about the fact that Ed Wade (the Phillies last general manager, currently the Astros') made the trade for two completely worthless players?
>> Anonymous
>>443416

Yeah, and they went right away and traded Constanzo for Miguel Tejeda.
>> Anonymous
>>443422

Costanzo*
>> Anonymous
i'm back from page 10... it's scary back there
>> Anonymous
Tom Brady

16 games. 52 touchdowns. League MVP.

The best quarterbacking performance in a single season. Period.

Deal with it.
>> Anonymous
Rivera-fags are forgetting one thing.

3-0