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Cleveland Fag !AVztAjVxGg
Daily Cliff Lee Thread.

22nd Win Edition.
>> Anonymous
And next year he'll be back at 10-15 with an ERA over 4
>> Anonymous
>>333124

I love fags how fags say things like that with nothing to back it up with.
>> Anonymous
>>333134
I'm pretty sure his entire 2007 seasons is evidence.
>> Anonymous
>>333134
See: Esteban Loazia
>> Anonymous
>>333141

In 2007, he got hurt, came back still wasn't 100%. He went to the minors, re-worked his delivery, learned a new pitch, and is now a totally different pitcher.

Besides, he won 18 games before that. Cliff Lee being good is not a shock.
>> Anonymous
http://www.baseball-reference.com/l/leecl02.shtml

And so is every year before this year. Even when Cliff Lee went 18-5 in 2005, he only had a ERA+ 111. He's pulling ERA 193+ this year. This shit is NOT sustainable. Lee's an average pitcher.
>> Anonymous
>>333134
lol you love fags, fag
>> Alakazam !!OEP6m59Bksc
>>333141

In case you weren't AWARE, which you probably weren't because you're a fucking faggot, Cliff spent the entire 2008 offseason doing an INTENSE workout program, building more upper arm strength, and developing a new pitch, that nasty cutter that has been his trademark all year. This isn't some "fluke season", this is a guy who had potential from the beginning finally performing to his level.
>> Cleveland Fag !AVztAjVxGg
Lee is a new pitcher since his injury last year. He won't even be this good again, but I think you can expect him to continue performing like an ace for a while.
>> Cleveland Fag !AVztAjVxGg
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>>333150

INTENSE
>> Anonymous
All of this is irrelevant considering the Indians suck and will continue to suck even if Cliff Lee pitches well.

Enjoy your man crush.
>> Anonymous
Cliff Lee is not Fausto Carmona.

Carmona had a fluke season (2007). Lee is legit. He doesn't have a gimmick pitch like Carmona.
>> Anonymous
The thing is you Cleveland fags think he's an ace. At best he's your 2nd guy, more realistic, he's your 3rd, 4th guy.
>> Alakazam !!OEP6m59Bksc
>>333161
>>333163

The lack of intelligence in this thread baffles me.
>> Cleveland Fag !AVztAjVxGg
>>333161

I prefer 'Bromance'.

>>333163

Who the fuck on our staff is better than Lee? Sowers? A soft throwing lefty without a decent breaking ball? Reyes? Who's proving to be hurt all the time so he'll never be effective now matter how well he pitches? Westbrook, who's in the same boat as Reyes? Miller, with fingers made of glass? Carmona, with one pitch and only one pitch?

Cliff Lee is the best we have. He's number 2 only if we resign CC (lolno) or make some other off season move (lolshapirno)
>> Anonymous
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Don't feel bad Cliff, I'll let you touch the Cy Young once.
>> Anonymous
>>333172

Too bad the committee thinks Wins are the only way to judge a pitchers worth.
>> Alakazam !!OEP6m59Bksc
>>333172

If K-Rod wins the Cy Young, there is no justice in baseball
>> Cleveland Fag !AVztAjVxGg
>>333176

He deserves it just as much as Lee or Holliday, it should be very interesting.
>> Anonymous
fuck cleveland. no one should win shit from ohio. all you do is get fatter, put shitty teams on the field in every sport amateur and professional...and fuck up elections.
>> Anonymous
>>333181

That's Florida.
>> Anonymous
lol delusional ohio fags

Lee only had one good season before this, and he's already 30. This season is a fluke and he'll go back to mediocrity next year. Deal with it.
>> Anonymous
>>333183
No, Ohio has been statistically proven to be the worst state.
>> Alakazam !!OEP6m59Bksc
>>333179

I don't know, both have had magical seasons but I can't imagine they would give it to a closer. I would hope not, anyway.

>>333181

Shitty teams? In 2007, we had the Cavs in the NBA Finals, Ohio State in the national championship game, the Indians in the ALCS, the Browns one win away from the playoffs, and the Columbus Destroyers in the Arena Football championship game. What have your state's teams done lately?

However I agree on the election part, I can't help half of the people here are ignorant redneck fucks.
>> Anonymous
>>333171

I'm saying if you think Lee's your best pitcher, you're in trouble. He profiles much more as a 3rd/4th guy than a legitimate ace. If you think he can carry the staff next year, just don't be surprised if he gets blown out more often than not.
>> Alakazam !!OEP6m59Bksc
>>333186

see

>>333150

>>333191

How's your team's third guy doing this year? 22 win season? No?
>> Anonymous
>>333191

I agree. A guy with a decent K/bb ratio, 22 wins, 2 loses, and a great ERA and WHIP is a 3rd or 4th guy.
>> Anonymous
A fucking ERA+ of 193 IS NOT FUCKING SUSTAINABLE. Lee's not even going to touch 110+ next year, and I'll shove it in all your damn faces to prove it to you. He's barely been an barely above average pitcher before this, and he's going to be an barely above pitcher after this season.
>> Anonymous
>>333194
Oh. Lee worked out a lot in the offseason, like every shitty pro who got sent to the minors after putting up a 6 era.

Sorry, but actually talented pitchers like Daisuki Matsukaze and Joshua Beckert eat barbecue all day and have GOOD K/9 rates which mind you, is a sign of HITTERS NOT MAKING CONTACT!

What's more likely to succeed, a pitcher who gets by from lucky ground outs like Cliff Lee, or a pitcher who strikes guys out and the hitters make poor contact like Disuke Matsuki?
>> Anonymous
>>333199

If you'd get your head out of your ass, I think both Cleveland douches in this thread said they don't expect him to reproduce this season ever again, but they do expect him to be a solid, 15+ winner, with an ERA under 3.00.
>> Anonymous
>>333203

>Dice-K

>Ranks 1st in AL in BB (88)

Go back to bed, Boston.
>> Alakazam !!OEP6m59Bksc
>>333205

That's all I really ask out of him

>>333203

Lee has always had the potential though, unlike your average shitty 6.00 ERA minor league pitcher. This isn't his first good season, fyi.
>> Anonymous
>>333203

Both can be equally successful, as in some cases groundball pitchers are better.

If a K-based pitcher gets a man on first, he may be in trouble. If a Groundout-based pitcher gets a man on first, there is still a very good chance of a DP. Not to say there isn't for someone like Beckett or Dice-K, but for a groundball pitcher it's a nice asset. Dice-K would just walk the bases full, anyway.
>> Cleveland Fag !AVztAjVxGg
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>hitters make poor contact like Disuke Matsuki?
>make poor contact
>poor contact

That's how a groundout pitcher works.
>> Anonymous
>>333205

Yeah, but he's not going to produce numbers near showing he's above average pitcher. He'd post a sub 4.00 ERA, he might win those 15 games, but I'd bet he won't post better than a 110 ERA+. Lee always shown a severe rate of decline after posting a 'good' year, and his 2005 year was at best above average, where he went 111+ in ERA+. Did he go 18-5 that year? Sure, but he also had a 3.79 ERA. That's the fucking pitcher he is. He's not the fucking ace of a staff, he's just Cliff Lee.
>> Anonymous
I'm not even a Cleveland fan, in fact I'm a White Sox fan and hate the Indians, but how can you say Cliff Lee is not a good pitcher THIS season? Complaining about how he's never been good, or how he won't be good again, is just a cheap-ass way to discredit him. Focus on this season.
>> Cleveland Fag !AVztAjVxGg
>>333218

Can we bet on this, because I'd really like to get some money. Pitchers without a serious injury or mental fucking handicap don't pitch this well and then fall into mediocrity.
>> Anonymous
>>333222

This year is mostly over. I will commend Cliff Lee for having a fantastic 2008, but the Indians are fooling themselves if they actually think Cliff Lee can carry the staff next year.
>> Anonymous
Because you wake up one day and all your skill and finesse is gone.
>> Anonymous
>>333246
Lol. Actually, that's how it ends for some pitchers.
>> Anonymous
Because Indian fags are delusional if they believe Cliff Lee is as good a pitcher as Halliday, Beckett, Matt Garza, Scott Kazmir, Johan Santana, Chad Billingsley, Tim Lineicum, or C.C.
>> Anonymous
>>333216
Nice job leaving out the striking out part. Groundout pitchers like Webb and Maddux have long term success because they have good K rates.

Lee doesn't, so history tells us success in the coming years is unlikely. Just like with Chin-ming Wang.
>> Anonymous
>>333148

lol at underageb&
>> Cleveland Fag !AVztAjVxGg
>>333250

Better than Garza, Billingsley, maybe Kazmir. Everyone else listed is better.
>> Anonymous
>>333319

Fuck you, Cliff Lee is not better than Chad Billingsley.