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Anonymous
What does /p/ think?
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>> thefamilyman !!rTVzm2BgTOa
terrible,
but i love trains!
>> Anonymous
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Here's another one.

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>> Liska !!LIVFOETqL8j
>>98745

sneaky train is sneaky.

>>98740
your photo is blurry, but i still love trains too so cool.
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
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So I herd you liek tranes

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>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
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Posting trains in a train thread.

This was on Ilford Delta 3200, developed in DD-X. I don't recall what EI I exposed it at, but most likely 1600, 3200, or 6400.
>> Liska !!LIVFOETqL8j
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I've got a train too! :D

well, part of a train...

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>> elf_man !!DdAnyoDMfCe
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No train, but it is a bridge for one.

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>> thefamilyman !!rTVzm2BgTOa
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its not a real train, but still a train!

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>> Butterfly !xlgRMYva6s
I dont have any photos of trains to hand, I have a few of the shinkansen about but i cba to find them.

F-40PH FTW!
>> thefamilyman !!rTVzm2BgTOa
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most amazing train trip i've been on.

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>> Testing Anonymous
Oh OK.
>> Anonymous
I'm wondering who here will now admit to having a model train set.
>> Butterfly !xlgRMYva6s
>>98879
Great train / track I think its wonderful but you know its there to help the Chinese wipe out the Tibetans (ofc you do) which is pretty crap.

It wasnt finished when I was there but as we drove past it, it looked like it would be pretty amazing.

I quite want to go back to Tibet, it'll have to wait till after Vietnam again tho (and this time i'll have a camera!)
>> thefamilyman !!rTVzm2BgTOa
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>>98882
>>but you know its there to help the Chinese wipe out the Tibetans (ofc you do) which is pretty crap.
actually i dont, Having graduated in Chinese history and culture at the University of Waikato in New Zealand and finished my masters at the University of Henan, in Kaifeng. I can safely say many people are misinformed and too conclusive.

But in return, i give you a bridge, somewhere in Qinghai province.

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>> Anonymous
>>98885
Possible to get a bit larger pic please? I love the entire look of that picture.
>> Anonymous
>>98885

Couldnt they of built the track at the bottom of the hills? Or was this a show of Chinese technical prowess?

Seems ashame to of burned straight through those poor lil hills, i feel sorry for em, poor little blighta's
>> Anonymous
>>98918
You do understand how trains work, right?
>> Anonymous
>>98923
yeah, they go choo choo
>> Butterfly !xlgRMYva6s
>>98928
Trains do not change elevation, it requires a massive ammount of energy to move 4 thounsand tonnes up a meter, it is cheaper and easier to move the earth instead.

>>98885
Really, you might want to tell the Tibetans that.
>> Anonymous
>>98934

The theocratic dictatorship they had wasn't exactly the best form of government. Great if you are one of the elite, the monks, who are the ones going around with their BAAAAAW message because they are butthurt they lost the good life. Now they milk sympathy from idiot liberal Hollywood stars and gullible and inexperienced students. Tibet is much better off now than as it was.
>> Butterfly !xlgRMYva6s
>>98938
I dont really care much I like china and it impresses me more that they managed to take over a country without anyone raising a finger in action (sure words were said, but fucking good work they did stopping them).

Infrastructure, state broadcasting towers and marble shopping centres dont really do much for a nomadic people. The cities that have tibetan quaters are walled off with only a single entrance to the rest of the city. Im not BAWWW because even after being there i agree its not necesarly a bad thing, but why then has china removed the one child policy in tibet? Why are tibetans not allowed to go everywhere in their country? What about the dali lama?
>> thefamilyman !!rTVzm2BgTOa
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>>98938
you are right in a crude way, the ppl who do hold a grudge milks it for all they can.

>>98940
as far as i remember, there wasn't any malls in Lhasa, not even a McDonalds or KFC, but they did have Dicos (i love their rice burger :D ). No cities have walls to separate the tebitens from the rest of the city, but they do tend to live in their own little communities, but they still are the majority population.
The one child policy doesn't apply to ethnic minorities and never has.
I dont see the problem with a greatly improved infrastructure, certainly helps developing the area unto the 21st century.
State broadcasting towers, i'm assuming TV, China Mobile, China Telecom and China Unicom towers, since when was communication a bad thing? If you ever traveled around Xinjiang and Inner Mongolia, you will see almost all nomadic setups having a huge ass satellite tv dish outside their tents. To assume what you think is useful or not to nomadic people is a far call.
Tibetans can travel in and out of their A.R as much as they want, you would of then quite a few in Sichuan province and Qinghai province.
I'm a historian by profession. (i never imagined i would become one when i finished high school 7 years ago lol)

>>98895
here is the image as requested.

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>> Anonymous
i think it is a train
>> Butterfly !xlgRMYva6s
>>98955
It was hard to form a proper opionion when I was there (two years ago) but Lasha doesnt seem to be of much use to the tibetans. Anyway I expect you are right as you are more informed than I am, post some more pics the landscapes are beautiful I really wish I had my camera 4 years ago!
>> Anonymous
Its a SHIT shot of a F40PHM-2R. GTFO Illinoisfag.
>> BlackAdder !!bSWRwu/NqzQ
>>98958

It's a good excuse to go touring with it now you have it. ;)
>> Butterfly !xlgRMYva6s
>>98971
Yeah but that whole being unemployed thing (talking of which anyone in liverpool need an office monkey?) is kina stopping me. I want to go to vietnam either this year or next but I dont expect to be able to afford it anytime soon.

The places i'd been would make you cry :P
>> Anonymous
>>98972
Put an add on the Liverpool Craigslist for all the other stuff you do: photography, DJ, etc. Won't be reliable or much, but getting $100 to shoot somebody's kids, $500 to do the music for their wedding, whatever ought to help you until you get a job.
>> BlackAdder !!bSWRwu/NqzQ
>>98972

Have you seen things people wouldn't believe? Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion? Have you watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tanhauser Gate? Will all those moments be lost in time, like tears in rain?
>> Anonymous
>>98976
Win.
>> Jeremo !iKGMr61IHM
>>98976

I wept a manly tear.
>> Butterfly !xlgRMYva6s
>>98974
uk craigslist sucks massive cock its rubbish.

>>98976
tears shead
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>98955
A gilded cage is still a cage, you know.

I don't really know enough about the subject to argue intelligently (internet, lol), but I'd say that the "They improved the hell out of the infrastructure of the formerly sovereign nation they're occupying" argument isn't a terribly good one.
>> thefamilyman !!rTVzm2BgTOa
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the Qizang railway is an interesting one, requiring some specially made locomotives to handle the extreme conditions of the area and altitudes of over 5000m (16,400 ft).
the line uses 3 types of engines.
Using DF8B (??, Dong Feng, East Wind, these are the domestic work horse of China) locomotives from Beijing to Lanzhou. These are 3680 kW (nearly 5000HP) units.
from Lanzhou to some random township close to Lhasa (cant remember where) the locomotive units are replaced with more powerful variants thats especially equipped for extreme altitudes of an average of 4500m (14,500 ft), these are DF8CJ using a more powerful version of the 16V280ZJA (16 cyl 280 x 285 mm) engine, developing 4000 kW (about 5400HP). These DF8BJ locomotives are adapted with features including an oxygen system.
From after this random township, the locomotives are replaced with a lesser powerful GE NJ2 3000 kW (about 4000HP) units, as the terrain is a lot flatter and altitude isn't so high (around 3500m or 11,400 ft)
Going though the toughest areas of 5200m, there are a total of 4 DF8CJ units with 16,000kW (21,500HP) of combind power, pulling the rolling stock at about 90kph (56mph). From Beijing to Lanzhou, there are 2 DF8B engines pulling at the max speed of 160kph (100mph) and 3 GE units at about 100kph (62mph).

Pic is of 2 DF8B engines going though towards Lanzhou in Gansu province.

Man i sound like a train geek :/

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>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)


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>> thefamilyman !!rTVzm2BgTOa
>>98988
its communities like a chinatown in large western cities, or little Italy, likes live among likes.

Also, its never been a sovereign nation since the Tang dynasty, even then when the collapse of the Qing Dynasty, and the rule of the Republic of China, there was a total power vacuum and total control of warlords and landlords, hardly a sovereign nation in its self.

One major problem is people dont understand whats been going on in nearly 5000 years of chinese history and only make assumptions.

but yeah, internet, lol.
>> Jeremo !iKGMr61IHM
>>99001

Yeah amen. Besides the fact that the tenet of a sovereign nation state is but a modern one emphasised in the latter half of the 20th century.

I think the biggest problem with ignorance in regards to Tibet is that the common misconception is that before China occupied it, Tibet was this religious nirvana where everyone was free to do whatever and the Dalai Lama was a benevolent being who was this close to behaving like a perfect deity.

Want a historical irony that Familyman touched on? The very first Dalai Lama was an ambitious man who was installed by the... CHINESE ARMY (Qing)... infact before that the Grand Lama or whatever the title was install by... Kublai Khan... another "Chinese" Dynastic ruler.

I don't blame anyone for wanting to have an opinion on Tibet, but historical background is necessary for ANY conflict that is contemporary.

I think the hardest concept for people to grasp (with the likes of Richard fucking Gere) is that Tibet...*drum roll* needs China.

The sovereignty issue, even from an international law perspective (which arguably is the only one that doesn't get lost rhetoric of faux-morality) is not an easy reconcilable one... but is certainly difficult to argue FOR Tibet from a historical perspective.

But before i get too far, i do hope that Tibetan culture as it stands now is preserved, it is beautiful and rich and deserves to be experienced by the future genetations... even if it's whitewashed just a little.
>> Jeremo !iKGMr61IHM
>>99060

wow, many spelling and grammar mistakes... that's why i need a proof reader... oh well
>> Anonymous
Yeah, my only issue with the Chinese being in Tibet is my objections to the Chinese governmental system. Who controls what slip of land has never mattered to me; it's how it's governed. I can't say which would be better, politically: feudalism or a more modern oligarchy, but at least there's some economic development mixed in on the latter point.

On that note,

>Tibet...*drum roll* needs China.

Do you mean that it needs an outside force spurring economic development, or that it specifically needs China?
>> Jeremo !iKGMr61IHM
>>99064

No, because that statement is a gross oversimplification of what my statement implies.

>>Do you mean that it needs an outside force spurring economic development

Economic development isn't suddenly a magical road down to prosperity and order, though it largely ends up that way with the side effects being few and great. By side effects i'm obviously referring environmental degradation, the potential for cultural genocide (should the guiding force of change by of a different 'culture' to that of the indigenous population). just to name a few.


... you know what? can't be bothered going into detail cause i always end up writing an essay. hahaha..

so the short answer is... I don't have an answer for your question, because I think the question isn't worded correctly.

There we go.
>> Anonymous
>>99068
Okay, let me rephrase then:

In what ways does Tibet need China?

(And I agree with what you're saying about development, but I don't see how else Tibetans would need China or anyone else, in anything more than the general way that cultures and states need interaction with other cultures and states to really thrive. But you're almost certainly more informed on the situation than I am. For instance, I knew that Tibet had been dominated by the Chinese going back that far, but I didn't know the Lamas were actually installed in such a manner.)