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Anonymous
Hi thar /p/hotographers.

I've been very very interested in photography since a long time ago, but im a student and i hadnt had a chance to afford gear, until now.

I still havent got married with any brand or system and im still very unsure of which way to go.

Since i do believe that there are nikonfags, canonfags and pentaxfags around here, i would like to ask you all the next question:

Which brand is right for a beginner that is within a relatively tight budget (around $1100, 1200 for everything, case, lens, body...).

Im looking for an affordable body with decent capabilities and space to grow until i feel i have to move to one with more features.

As for the lens, i was thinking about a standard zoom for walkaround, and later on a fast prime for portraiture and creative DOF shots.

I have read a little here and there but im still VERY unsure of which way to go.
Comment too long. Clickhereto view the full text.
>> eku !8cibvLQ11s
Now, instead of we, collective of /p/, give this (wo)man straight answers, we post links to other topics on /p/ relevant to this discussion.

I would start, but I'm going to sleep right now.
>> Jeremo !iKGMr61IHM
check dpreview.com and search through their forums or flickr.com or any photographic related forum.

Your question has been asked a thousand times before and has been answered 10 times more.
>> Anonymous
the camera brand doesn't matter.

in b4 150 replies
>> Anonymous
Canons and Nikons are solid cameras, and you can't really go wrong with any of them (except maybe the D40x from Nikon which has some focusing issues). I don't know much about Pentax or Olympus, but I think they're lower priced. May be good if you're on a really tight budget, but I think there's a reason Canon and Nikon are the more popular brands.

Try out different cameras and see which one you like. You really can't go too wrong here. There are distinct differences between them, but which one is better is almost wholly an issue of taste and opinion.

You should also think about going with whatever system most people you know use. They are invaluable for advice, tips, and help, not to mention being able to trade lenses and such.
>> Butterfly !xlgRMYva6s
>>112539
yes,

go fondle the cameras you can afford and pick the one that is the most comfortable, they all do the same thing and there is no real difference between the bottom end of all the dlsr makers.
>> Anonymous
Picking an imaging system for how comfy it feels? It's a camera, not a fucking chair.
>> Butterfly !xlgRMYva6s
>>112554
uh yes, thats how i started my decision, the A100 felt the best in my hand compared to the D40 and the 350D.

Some days it spends 4-5hrs in my hand continiously taking pictures, i want a fucking comfy camera (and btw a lack of vertical grip for that was shit, portrait + heavy flash -vg = pain)
>> Anonymous
>>112556

You are a retard and a weakling. Get a P&S and you'll be in heaven. You'll never know the difference.
>> Anonymous
>>112554
Protip: Cartier-Bresson didn't use Leicas because of their GIGANGTIC 36x24mm sensor and all their easy automated features.
>> Anonymous
>>112562

He used it because it was a Leica and Leica=top quality in every way on a world scale.
>> Butterfly !xlgRMYva6s
>>112560
hey fuckhead I can handhold a 500/2.8 at 1s exposure without blur, you fucking get some muscle.

I think you might notice the difference when im beating you to death with my DSLR vs when im beating you to death with the P&S.
>> Anonymous
>>112566
>500/2.8

wat
>> Anonymous
jesus fucking christ /p/

never before has a board needed a sticky so bad..

a simple sticky at the top about 'HAY SHOULD I BUY D40?' would probably eliminate the vast majority of these stupid threads.
>> Anonymous
>>112566

Sure you did, internet tough guy, sure you did.

I can leap tall buildings with a single bound too!
>> Butterfly !xlgRMYva6s
>>112569
yeah i can leap TWO tall buildings WITH a 500/1.7 WHILST TAKING A PICTURE.
>> Anonymous
>>112567
Maybe he meant the sigmonster at 500mm wide open.

I saw a pic of a guy handholding it once.
>> Anonymous
>>112564
Well, yes, but the main things for almost all Leica users I've heard from seems to be comfort and the quiet shutter.

"Comfort" is, once a certain minimum of image quality and manual control is reached, the most important thing in a camera.
>> Anonymous
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Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeDSCimgCamera ModelCamerasMaximum Lens Aperturef/2.6Image-Specific Properties:Image OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution72 dpiVertical Resolution72 dpiImage Created2001:01:01 01:01:01Exposure Time1/6 secF-Numberf/2.8Exposure ProgramNormal ProgramISO Speed Rating100Exposure Bias0 EVMetering ModeCenter Weighted AverageLight SourceUnknownFlashNo FlashFocal Length10.84 mmColor Space InformationsRGBImage Width640Image Height480
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>112554
>Picking an imaging system for how comfy it feels? It's a camera, not a fucking chair.
Technical and optical features of all major camera lines are more or less equal. The only real differences nowadays are the ergonomics.

So yeah, how comfy it feels is the best way to choose an SLR.
>> Anonymous
>>112580

They are not equal. Go to DPReview and suggest that on the boards. I'd love to see the results of that one.
>> Butterfly !xlgRMYva6s
>>112581
yes the ensuing shitstorm from the fanboys would be a waste of time.

the bottom 1/2 of the consumer market is mostly looks and ergnomics, build quality and support. the actual bodies all do the same fucking things.
>> nope
>>112581

>all major camera lines are more or less equal.

>camera lines are more or less equal.

>are more or less equal.

>more or less equal.

>more or less.
>> Anonymous
So you'd have to be a retard to pick second best because it looks pretty or some stupid shit. It's performance and IQ that matters.
>> Jeremo !iKGMr61IHM
>>112577

...Mum?

>>112581

WEll Dpreview is troll central, the sheer amount of fanboyism is amazing there. I stop posting there after i realised how stupid some people were.

Of course there are differences between models and systems, but the point AC was making and i agree with is that for amateurs like us, the difference is moot.

Until we move onto professional systems and have professional needs that need to be met, those differences aren't enough to direct one way or another.
>> Anonymous
>>112590

your mum is hot. more pics please.
>> Anonymous
DPReview is a quality board with many experts and professionals. Lots of information to be had there.
>> Jeremo !iKGMr61IHM
>>112593

Funnily enough, even though you're taking the piss i agree with that. It's just that with every so called expert, there is at least another 3 trolls.

With the amount of brand warfare that goes on you'd think all those people have shares in the company or something.

Because i simply can't understand when people dfend a brand they have had absolutely nothing to do with. But i guess that's capitalism for ya, consumerism is the new religion.
>> Anonymous
>>112597

I think they defend their brands due to the impulse against buyers remorse. People do not want to look foolish, so they will defend their purchase and decision rather than admit fault and that they made a mistake. Loss of face.

So they defend the brand and all they do until the end, becoming a hopeless fanboy.
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>112581
>They are not equal. Go to DPReview and suggest that on the boards. I'd love to see the results of that one.
Why? I can tell you what the results would be right now:
1. If I posted it on the Canon boards, a shit-ton of people would reply with arguments that Canon's image quality is way better.
2. If I posted it on the Nikon boards, a shit-ton of people would reply with arguments that Nikon's image quality is way better.
3. If I posted it on the Sony boards, a shit-ton of people would reply with arguments that Sony's image quality is way better.

And so forth.

How can they all make these arguments? Because their image quality is about equal. Do you really think there is a solid consensus on the Canon boards that Nikon is better, or vice versa? Maybe Canon could have claimed highest image quality with their 1Ds and 5D up until recently, but not since the D3 came out.

Any photographer worth his salt knows that the thing behind the viewfinder has a hell of a lot more to do with the quality of images produced than the camera itself.
>> Jeremo !iKGMr61IHM
>>112603

Yeah it's sort of fair enough, especially when there are wankers out there who will purposefully try and cut down on someone else's purchase

I.E. "What? You bought XXXX?? that's a noob camera XXXX is way better"

People just forget there is no such thing as a perfect product and it's all subjective... but then again if i could explain reason and logic to the interwebs i'd be the Messiah.
>> Anonymous
>>112607

Olympus suck though. I've seen their noise comparisons in print reviews and it's not as good as Canon's consumer cameras.
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>112610
Oh, well yeah. We can all agree that Olympus sucks.
>> Anonymous
The best thing on DPR is the "Canon Talk" forum.

It's full of G9 users patting themselves on the back and praising SLR QUALITY IN A SMALL PACKAGE!
>> Anonymous
"Reasons to use the S2-3-5 : compact size, cheaper, videos, swivel LCD, great fast lens (you'd have to shell a lot of money, and carry more than one lens, to compete with it)."

Great fast lens, oh lawd.
>> Butterfly !xlgRMYva6s
>>112611
Well duh we dont need to agree, its a fact.

The biggest deciding factor is always price, its a massive argument over performance vs price, but for almost all systems (excluding sony i guess) you can get a camera at any pricepoint.
>> Anonymous
"When a scene is properly exposed there's no reason for the higher dynamic range. A small sensor P&S camera has more dynamic range than slide film. I knew what I've been doing for the last 50 years to get the exposure right, I do the same with a high-quality smaller sensor camera."
>> Anonymous
>>112612
Wow I never looked at that. Out of 50 or so threads on the front page, I'd say 35 of them are about the G9.
>> Anonymous
>>112644

I really don't know if it's a good or bad thing but "Canon Talk" is nothing but P&S users telling people not to buy SLRs because you have to use different lenses and that 10x and + superzooms are better.
>> Jeremo !iKGMr61IHM
>>112616

oh my lord... who the hell said that bullshit?
>> Anonymous
>>112709

it was Ken
>> Anonymous
>>112709

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/forum.asp?forum=1010

Plenty of gems like that just by browsing for 5 minutes.
>> Anonymous
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P-P-P-P-PowerShot!

Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeCanonCamera ModelCanon PowerShot G9Camera SoftwareAdobe Photoshop CS3 WindowsMaximum Lens Aperturef/2.8Sensing MethodOne-Chip Color AreaImage-Specific Properties:Image OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution240 dpiVertical Resolution240 dpiImage Created2007:11:12 15:47:54Exposure Time1/320 secF-Numberf/4.0ISO Speed Rating100Lens Aperturef/4.0Exposure Bias-1/3 EVMetering ModePatternFlashNo Flash, CompulsoryFocal Length7.40 mmColor Space InformationsRGBImage Width900Image Height675RenderingNormalExposure ModeManualWhite BalanceAutoScene Capture TypeStandard
>> Jeremo !iKGMr61IHM
I know next to nothing about the G9... but surely most of that shit that the people are saying are false?

... but yeah, it really seems like a circle jerk of G9 owners.
>> Anonymous
>>112737

To them it is gospel truth. Argue anything else and feel the flames. They think they know an "amazing secret" that their P&S is on a par to any SLRs or pro gear.
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>112830
Yeah, and by getting a PowerShot G9, you can save a whole $10 over getting a Rebel XT.
>> Blackadder !!bSWRwu/NqzQ
>>112879

Damn, is that all the difference there is now? Not much of a saving.
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>112883
Yep. Checked Adorama.com right before posting.

And that's *with* the kit lens. It's fifty bucks cheaper body-only.
>> Anonymous
>>112616
This is to an extent true, though. Worst thing that can happen is that one has part of the sky blown out that wouldn't be on a larger sensor cameras.

These cameras are fine at ISO 200 and below, but anyone who thinks that a G9 is a 1:1 replacement for a DSLR (or vice versa) is kidding themselves. Two different types of cameras for different situations.
>> Blackadder !!bSWRwu/NqzQ
>>112891

Haha! If I had just bought a P&S I'd be pretty pissed off if I saw a DSLR for about the same price. I suppose the only ones who'll not mind that are either those who don't know any better or those looking for a back-up they can put in their handbags or something.
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>112893
There is something of a niche for a small camera with a hot shoe for the ultra Strobist crowd. But yeah, they're mostly targeted at people who are dumb.
>> Anonymous
>>112896
They're also not as portable and not as quiet as an SLR. With the exception of a Leica M8, there's no digital cameras better for street photography during the day, or other similar things where discretion is required and one can keep the ISO down.
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>112898
Good point.

(When I correct for what you actually meant to say rather than what you typed)
>> Flutterby !FFV1SjUAV2!!fIH
The Pentax K10D should be able to grow with you until you can afford a K20D. There are plenty of used k-mount lenses out there as well as new production lenses. Pair with the battery grip (which also acts as a vertical shutter release) and it's made of win and awesome. If not a K10D, then I'd go with a Nikon D80 or a (used) Canon EOS 20D. (The 30D is great, but it's likely out of your price range.)