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Anonymous
I'm mad. I'm seriously pissed off in fact! I was at a local park today practicing my photography skills or lack thereof. It's a bank holiday and the sun was shinging and the place was jam packed with people. I took a lot of pics mainly of plants and scenic and a few pics of people. There was a lot of adults and kids riding those sit in tricycles which I presumed were available either free or fee based courtesy of the park owners (I had never been to this park before so it was interesting).
Anyhow. There I was going about my business when I walked slowly past the kiddies playground (You can see where this is heading) looking around for something to shoot. I had my camera in hand to prevent it bashing against against my side on the strap. Next thing I hear is some dudes voice asking me what I am taking photos of. "Anything and everything" I replied when I should have told him to mind his own fucking business. "Can you not take photos of the children and the play area" Not so much as a please and it was said in that manner you get from the idiot brigade who have been watching too much shitty news or reading the dullards newsrags that are constantly piping on about child molestors and how everyone is out to steal your children. I said I wasn't taking any photos of the children and he was free to peruse my camera if he so wished. But he ignored me and proceeded to say in an accusing manner "You understand right?" I said I did and that it was a shame that people like him should feel that way. At this point he walked off with his daughter and mumbled something about photographers I did not quite catch....
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>> Anonymous
...anyhow I walked on a bit miffed about this. I walked around the bend took some pics of some bowlers on a bowling green and turned to see a squirrel. I took aim and tried to get a few shots off. Suddenly I hear someone shout "Who are you taking photos of?!" I look up to see someone a distance away behind the squirrel. I pointed at the squirrel and shouted "A squirrel!" back at them. Now I am rather flustered and a bit peeved to say the least. Two ear bendings in the course of a few minutes. Just WTF is up with society that you can't take photos out in a public park? This is in London in the UK. It's obvious that photographers have become enemy number one over here. The media has both instigated and fed this beast. The mindset of everybody is now the same. If you are a photographer taking photos in the park you are a pervert. Parks in the UK are no longer a safe place for photographers to go. If I was taking snaps of the play area I could understand. But I didn't fucking do anything! OK I know this is 4chan. Haven for pedos and fuckups so I'm probably preaching to the wrong crowd. But still. This pisses me off no end!
Photographers are getting a shitty image because of media frenzy and gullible idiots. The great British public (Sarcasm).
Does this happen anywhere else other than the shitty UK? Anyone else had this problem?
>> Anonymous
Should've pointedly taken a photo of his daughter.

Actually, that'd probably lead to a smashed camera.
>> Anonymous
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Here is 'mostly' what I actually took photos of.

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>> Anonymous
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>> Anonymous
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>> Anonymous
Actually, as another UK /p/hotographer I'd be interested if anyone has links to our specific rights to print out and shove in other peoples faces.

I've seen a couple of websites that outline and document American photographers rights but none for UK laws.

Surprised there were even actual kids out in a playground these days.
>> Anonymous
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>> Anonymous
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>> Anonymous
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>> Anonymous
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>> Anonymous
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>> Anonymous
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>> Anonymous
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>> Anonymous
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OHSHI...there is a child in this photo! Send the party van out immediately!

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>> Anonymous
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>> Anonymous
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>> Anonymous
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>> Anonymous
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>> Anonymous
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>> Anonymous
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>> Anonymous
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>> Anonymous
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>> Anonymous
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>> Anonymous
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>> Anonymous
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>> Anonymous
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I have a bunch more but mostly it's just more plant macros. This is the fucking squirrel that got me shouted at. I'll leave it at that.

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>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>71973
That is an awesome squirrel.
>> Anonymous
>>71974
Ah! It was all worth it then ;)
>> Teus !QbSstcPD6U
I photography anything I want in public but approach with the needed tact. avoid obvious places like school grounds. there are websites dedicated to defending your rights of photographing in public. usually its OK as long as you're not harassing people or causing problems.
>> Anonymous
While you may have the legal right to, you're still being an ass. Nothing to do with being a pervert, but its that no one likes having to worry about someone recording every stupid little thing they do. Cameras don't just record events, they change them by simply being there.
>> Anonymous
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>>71979

As another UK photographer, I'd like a link to those pages. Recently I had a burning in my village and I rushed there as soon as I could (several hours late) and got a few quick snaps in when I started getting shouted at by the owner to gtfo and not take pics of other peoples' catastrophy. And I wasn't sure what would have been alright in that situation. I packed up and left without getting a single real photo in.

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>> Anonymous
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>> Anonymous
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>> Anonymous
I enjoyed the squirrel photo knowing its background information, and also because it's a cute squirrel. Saved.

The thing about being in public with idiots is knowing when to give them the right attitudes. Ever since I was a kid I've been coming up with ways to neutralize a negative atmosphere, just to avoid bad situations. You did the right thing in those situations, given the fact that you did not give a shit what they thought of you. But it might have been better if you had given them both pseudo-attitude in return, the kind where it doesn't really seem like you're angry but your words are strong and clear in a tone that makes people understand you are being serious. Maybe instead of blurting out "Squirrel" you could have said "I'm a photographer taking pictures of things, not you people, and I'm not bothering you so leave me alone."

etc
>> Anonymous
I think it's like that everywhere, more or less. Once I was at train station, an interesting place, just minding my own business, shooting "anything and everything", suddenly this older man from stopped trains cockpit asks me who allowed me to photograph here and says that if I don't stop he will smash my camera right now. I took a photo of him and went away, I was done there anyway. Northern Europe.
>> Anonymous
A quick google search for "photographers rights" and I found this site. Not sure if it has what your looking for, as I'm interested in US rights at the moment (being a Yank myself.) but it may have the "shove rights in person's face" material your looking for.
>> Anonymous
>>71992

Erm, you found what site?
>> Anonymous
Ack. Sorry, forgot the link >.<
http://www.sirimo.co.uk/ukpr.php

also I found this:
http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
The thing is photography either as a hobby, as a job or an obsession is just recording the world as the camera see's it (With some creative thought from the photographer off course). Can intention come into play when photographing subjects? Of course. If I take photos of nudes it can be artistic, voyeuristic, pornographic or a combination thereof. People who see photographers taking photos in public places do not know the intention. However I think depending on where and what they are taking photos of people need to use some common sense before telling photographers where to go. The immediate presumption when in parks appears to have been twisted due to media scaremongering. Everyone these days. Particularly parents have this thing embedded in their heads now that photographers + children or even being nearby are a threat. This is simply untrue for the most part. But the seed has been planted. God I hate the media. BTW this is my first attempt at HDR using bracketing. Not so good as RAW but I don't have a SLR (Yet).
One other thing as you know I took the OP image. Yes it's a child. Female at that. I think I captured a great candid moment (And why is there a stigma attached to the word 'candid'these days?). Is it sexual? Perhaps to those inclined in thinking that way. But for most people definitely not! I am sure her parents would love to have more shots like that if they did not attach the stigma to it that strangers with cameras are dangerous. Such is the world we live and die in.

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>> Anonymous
>>71997
While I can understand where you're coming from, I still think if you're going to take pictures of a child, it's best that you ask the parent/guardian for permission. I mean, if I was the father of a little girl and I saw some random guy snapping away photos of her, I would probably be a little anxious myself.
>> Anonymous
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I think I like this one better. Leaves in top corner are not so blurred and there is the nice couple on the bridge.

Camera-Specific Properties:PhotographerAnonymousImage-Specific Properties:Horizontal Resolution72 dpiVertical Resolution72 dpi
>> Anonymous
So you go through this, then take a picture of a young girl from behind. How VERY 4chan of you, good sir.
>> Anonymous
>>72002
But in most situations to get candid shots you cannot do that. If you were to ask you lose that candidness and they become 'aware' of you. You lose the 'moment' so to speak. Besides. People need to fucking stop with that mentality. Perverts taking photos blatantly out in front of everyone to see are few and far between I bet. What they need to be thinking is 'photographer' not 'pervert' and if they want to say something after seeing me take a photo it should be "Excuse me I saw you take that photo. Can you please delete it and not take anymore thanks". That would be fine by me. I will respect their wishes in that instance. Whilst it's true you can ask beforehand it's NEVER the same as catching people in their 'natural' state. Posed shots are for weddings and birthdays and portrait photography.
>> Anonymous
>>72004
Actually it's because I could not get the shot from the front and pressed the shutter down just as she went by. Her mother was there. I looked at her immediately afterwards and thankfully she was not looking concerned. As I said above. The problem is with them not me. I wish to practice my hobby and learn to take better photos of interesting subjects. Children lend themselves to this as they are less inhibited and give a mnore natural shot. I took some photos of some adult skaters. I assure you they were not the same in terms of being worthy of keeping. Perhaps if they had been in a sporting moment or had a fucking smile on their faces. Most adults are bloody miserable beings most of the time. Even in parks on sunny days. You'd be surprised.
>> Anonymous
It's about human nature and most human nature is retarded. Hivemind.
>> Anonymous
This is what keeps me from going out and trying candid/street photography.

Good on you for having the balls to do it.
>> Anonymous
>>72019
It does take balls and a bit of sneakyness unfortunately. Don't get me wrong photos of sports, scenic, still life, friends and family etc are great. But to get the whole story you need to go further. Nothing tells a story like human interaction and if they don't know you are taking the photo you get to see the 'real' persons emotions instead of something staged.

Even some friends and family hate having their photo taken. But if you can show them something complimentary by taking a good sneak shot you can give them a better sense of self worth. The problem with most photographs taken in a staged situation is that they aren't always complimentary and the person puts on a face/attitude that can end up being a mask and justifying their own lack of self worth in the process. 'I'm ugly therefore I'll put on my mask' so to speak. I understand how some people feel about having their photo taken. But if they can be shown that there is some beauty in all of us then I think it's worth it. The mark of good people photography versus great people photography is in being able to show something that comes from the inside of the subject rather than something that is just skin deep. That's my personal belief anyhow. But I digress...
>> Macheath !8b4g0BkNZg
Wait, people in the UK have a problem when photographers are taking pictures in public, but don't care about the government cameras watching them?
>> elf_man !fBgo7jDjms
People think it makes them safe.
>> Anonymous
People in the UK will throw their rights to privacy away in an instant if they think it's going to save them (Which is untrue BTW). In the UK in London you get caught on camera 300 times a day apparently. The UK has the most video surveilance in the world. Big Brother is already watching you.
>> Anonymous
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>>71944
Yeah, it has. Three times.

The first, I had stopped by the ice cream shop where my friend worked to pick something up from him really quickly, and had gotten a small ice cream just to make everything legit. I took out the camera I had with me, a Canon G2- a silent point and shoot with a swiveling screen, by the way- and took a (so I thought) discreet picture of this little girl enjoying her ice cream. Right after I pressed the shutter button, her mother apparently noticed, and was all "Come on, honey, let's go." In two or three seconds, she was running with her kid to the car.

The next was when I was photographing a small carnival. Because people are paranoid asses, there of course had to be a cop at this place, which maybe had three dozen people at that moment and had maybe twenty booths. And as I was photographing- with no problems or complaints, cop lady (pic related, not a great shot, but this was the last frame I shot before all of this, and she's the cop in it) notices the camera and comes up to me as I'm composing another shot.

"Are you with the paper?"
"No. I'm just out photographing. Is that a problem, mam?"
"Well, people might not like you taking pictures of their kids."

When what she sounded like she meant was "Get out of here, you sick perv."

So I left. I didn't want to tangle with the police.

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>> Anonymous
Doesn't the photographer's rights thing say you can take photos of kids specifically and it doesn't say anything about adults.
>> Anonymous
>>72039

The third a few kids flagged me down to ask all the usual questions: "are you a photographer," etc. etc.

So I asked if I could photograph them, and they said yes. I shot a few portraits, and was adjusting my flash for some more when one got an anxious look on his face. He looked to be about eight years old.

"Do you like girls?"

I responded in the affirmative, and left shortly thereafter to avoid any problems. It seriously horrified me an eight year old's thought of seeing someone with a camera photographing him was that he was a perv who was going to beat off to him. The parents are sort of understandable, but an eight year old knowing not just "don't talk to strangers" but "don't talk to strangers or they'll diddle you?"

And it's all bullshit. First of all, one shouldn't expect any sort of privacy when in a public place. For once, the law and common sense coincide.

Second, if I was a parent, I'd rather a pedophile fap to a photograph of my kid than haul him off and molest him. Seriously- a camera never physically harmed anyone, unless somebody took one of those huge Sigma telephotos, put a 1D with a dozen accessories at the end, and used the whole massive contraption as a weapon.
>> Anonymous
>>72041
Anything "in public view" can be photographed so long as it isn't for commercial use- advertising, etc.
>> Anonymous
>>72019
I go take pictures with a friend. Then when people ask, we just say we're students learning photography. It's a lot more comfortable that way. People seem to back off more when the pictures are "in the name of education"...
>> Anonymous
If anyone asks if you're with the press, just say "Yes, I'm taking photos for our next report on child predators and how parents leave their kids unattended at the park all too often. Hey, where's your kid?"
>> Anonymous
You'd think Londoners of all people would be used to having pictures taken of them.
>> Anonymous
>>72090
nice. Its like 200 times a day, right?
>> Vincent
     File :-(, x)
I find I never get harrased if I have a DSLR on hand rather than a P&S. I've often been asked, what i'm taking pics of that require such a big lens (80-200 f2.8) But you can just say birds and sports. Its not an offensive question really, its more people just needing something to say as they pass you by.

Every once in a while you run into a gearhead who has to critique your choice in camera's and throw in what he shoots with. Which is not necessarily a bad thing, some people just like to talk about camera's.

heres about as creepy as I get with a camera. (pic related)

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>> Anonymous
This shit happens to me all the time in the US. I'm at a University in the commons area where there's a clock tower and a lot of grass/trees taking pictures with my Holga, and people give me shit if I point in their general direction. You'd think a bunch of college students in such an area would not get so pissy.
>> Anonymous
>>72097
...Especially since they're probably all in Girls Gone Wild Spring Break 2007.

Goddamn kids.
>> Anonymous
r u at purdue?
>> Jeremo !iKGMr61IHM
>>72048

That's not entirely true, I'm from Aus, and i actually carry a section of Privacy Act on me (i study law, but the sheet is more a back up for the cops, since regular people will lynch me regardless if they wanted to).

There is a huge difference between public view and public accessible. Know what i mean? Generally a park should be no worries, but say a courthouse or parliament will be another matter.

Funny thing is, in Australia, NO ONE i repeat NO ONE has a right NOT to be photographed. Of course this moves into the realm of contractual agreement of the final product is used for commercial purposes as people have mentioned.

>>72094

>>Every once in a while you run into a gearhead who has to critique your choice in camera's and throw in what he shoots with. Which is not necessarily a bad thing, some people just like to talk about camera's.

Oh god i hate those people, not the ones who go 'hey cool setup' but the people who are like... well you should really try that ... the dickheads who go 'ooooh really' when you tell them you shoot iwth a nikon and followed by a 'I shoot canon' as if that automatically made them Cartier-Bresson. Bah...

Another funny anecdote is that Rex Dupain (son of Max, a real prominent Australian photographer) had the police called on him when people notice him shooting 'video' of Beach goers at Bondi... but when police arrived they were baffled as they could not find the 'PLAY' button on Rex's Hasselblad... *sigh*
>> annoyingmouse
     File :-(, x)
Simillar problem in DK.
It is simply illegal to take photos in parks and play-grounds. You are actually not allowed to have your mobile phone out in several places! (due to the built in camera of course).
>>71958when I see this picture - if it was me in the picture, I would come and give you a lot of trouble unless you look REALLY harmless. But that's just me being violently over-protective of my kid (then of course I go and put pics of him online myself...)
I usually don't get any problems when taking photos of people, also because I am a big guy and I think that people just prefer to look the other way which is a shame. When I take pics of kids, I always have my own kid around. NEVER take a sneaky picture of kids.
Once in a while I ask people if they would mind. you can always say that you are a student or offer to mail them any good pics you get. Works just fine when you are also a father.

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>> Anonymous
I was taking pictures in a railway station - full camera bag, SLR, taking time to compose shots etc, in full sight. Two plainclothes cops came up to me, told me to stop, i was making people nervous, because i might be a TERRARIST OH NOHES. Retards. If i was planning an attack i'd be a bit less fucking obvious about it. Entire station is covered by CCTV btw. I told the cops that stopping me taking pictures was letting the terrorists win, and the best thing we could do to fight terrorism was to ignore it, just like during the blitz - don't let the bastards get you down. Cop looked embarrassed, but still insisted i stop. Personally I'm more worried about trigger happy cops with machine guns (Jean-Charles de Menezes anyone?). fuck this country's shitty attitudes for letting the terrorists (and pedos, as per op) win
>> Anonymous
I found the UK photographers rights. http://www.sirimo.co.uk/ukpr.php I don't know how up to date it is but I am just about to read through it.
>> Anonymous
This was more revealing (And shocking!).

http://phooto.co.uk/rights.shtml
>> Anonymous
OP here. I am going to get this sucker laminated and carry it with me when I have my camera with me.

"You are reminded that under UK law, there are no restrictions on taking photographs in a public place or on photography of individuals, whether they are adults or minors. There is no right to privacy in a public place, although photographers are of course subject to the usual libel laws in the same way as any other citizen and should observe them. Equipment or film may not be confiscated, or images deleted by any person or officer unless a warrant for such action is issued. Any attempt without a warrant is considered assault under UK law."
>> Jeremo !iKGMr61IHM
>>72156

HA! Good ol Empire. Ours is pretty much the same, thanks to good ol British Common Law
>> Anonymous
One last post from OP. This is great.

http://www.togsblog.co.uk/?p=272
>> Anonymous
I havent had any problems in public space recently. Did have a drunk person shout she was a laywer at me when i was taking some (Deliberatly annoying) shots of someone drunk on the ground.

Without checking im sure we have the right in the UK to take photos of anything and anything without prior conformation but im not sure on the get out clauses.

Anyway get a big lense, no one bothers you with them and you can take photos of people miles away.
>> Anonymous
I live in Dominican Republic, i often take pictures of everything.
I also carry a gun with me. peace
>> Anonymous
>>71943
That photo is pretty good nevertheless.
I almost want to save it but...you know.
>> Anonymous
>>72214
second'd
>> Anonymous
In the US it is not a crime to photograph anything that is in public view. There are exceptions. If it is illegal for you to view something then it is illegal for you to take pictures of it. For example, inside a public changing room at the beach. You'd get arrested for peeking, so you'd also get arrested for taking pics.

While it's not illegal in public places, don't be an asshole and ruin it for the rest of us. Idiots who go around with cell phone cameras taking lewd pictures up ladies skirts or using infrared filters to take pics underneath swimsuits (and sometimes get away with it too based on their particular state's voyeurism laws), or take pictures of small children at playgrounds, are ruining it for the rest of us because these kind of pervs make people very nervous about cameras. A photographer's right probably isn't as easy to protect as say... the right to free speech. So don't be an asshole.

But speaking to people who take normal (not-lewd) pics - the use of the photograph in publication or electronic media (a book, an advertisement, a website, or other commercial use) usually requires a signed model release. This may even include things like taking pictures of your colleagues for an organization web site, etc. Get a signed model release anyway, it's a good idea. A nice site that provides a sample model release and info on when to use it, etc is: http://www.danheller.com/model-release
>> Anonymous
>>72221
In the UK if it's for personal use, for a club, non-profit etc then you don't need consent. Even in commercial use a magazine or newspaper does not need to ask everyone for permission unless it's a celebrity in the public eye or individual shots. Group shots in situations that are not posed are usually fine. I am erring on the side of 'free to present the OP image as a photographic example and 'fun' pic for other photographers'. Or a a fun pic in general. Of course given this sites (4chan) nature you can probably take it as anything you like. However if I had poste dit in /b/ then you could probably take it as leaning towards voyeurism and pedo troll bait. But that is not what I intended to do. I think in it's current context it is fine. However if I or any of us started posting lots of images of children then the context would obviously be lost and a mod would need to step in and set some groundrules (Which there already are if you read them).
>> Anonymous
>>72226
'are' there rather.
>> Anonymous
>>72226

Yeah. Another thing to keep in mind is that different places in the US have people of very different mindsets too - I can walk around New York with my SLR and people will actually say "Hey! Take a picture of me!" and they'll pose proudly... but out in say, West Virginia, people actually steer away from cameras like "Watch out for that creepy camera guy"
>> eku !8cibvLQ11s
In Finland, public space is free-to-photograph-space. And it doesn't matter if it's privately owned place, like bar or grocery store, as long as you are free (not in a sense paying any fee or anything) to enter.
And you're allowed to photograph anyone, and publish those photos, as long as they aren't offending or aren't used for commercial use, or to promote any idealism etc.
I'm very proud of our rights here in Finland!

(Somewhere should be some kind of a list of photographers rights in every country. Would also help when traveling. To this day, I'm not sure was I rightly denied the right to photograph on a public space in France, when I was too near USA embassy.)
>> Anonymous
>>72221
>>the use of the photograph in publication or electronic media (a book, an advertisement, a website, or other commercial use) usually requires a signed model release.

No, you can publish whatever you want, whereever you want, without a model release so long as it isn't for commercial purposes. How do you think art photography books of street photography get made? Did Garry Winogrand carry around a backpack with thousands of model releases in it, and stop people after each frame, and say, "Excuse me, sir, would you sign this? I want to use your photograph for a book called 'The Animals.'"
>> Anonymous
>>72235
If I'm not mistaken, it's illegal period to photograph people in France without their permission.
>> Anonymous
This is why I only shoot buildings...
>> Anonymous
>>72292
I knew you were a terrorist...
>> Anonymous
>>72281

One time Garry was out photographing and had taken a picture a picture of some woman "who started yelling 'You can't take my picture!" Garry looked back at her and said 'It's not your picture, it's MY picture!"
>> Anonymous
Interesting commentary about this topic -
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/27/AR2006032700851_pf.html
>> Anonymous
>>71943
you sick fuck, how DARE YOU photograph squirrels in public parks? you should be locked away!


if you photographed little girls, than you should be thanked....but you didnt :(
>> Anonymous
>>72282
no we have the right to take photo of people in public places, we have to ask for their permission if we want to publish them.
>> eku !8cibvLQ11s
     File :-(, x)
>>72282

I wasn't photographin people (oh well, I did, a lot, but not on this particularly case. I was shooting a weird lookin street sign opposite the USA embassy, when the policeman came and shout "SIR, NO PHOTOS! NO PHOTOS!"

But anyway, here's a(n illegal) photo. Didn't ask their permission to take the photo of them.

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>> Anonymous
Weird-looking street sign... I don't remember anything like that around the embassy in Paris, but I wasn't exactly looking at the time, lol.

At the time I was trying to get a new passport after it( and my camera) had been stolen.
>> Anonymous
>>72305
How does that work with, say, art photography books? Do street photographers seriously have to go up to someone and get them to sign something?
>> Anonymous
>>72296
Win. I'm going to have to try that on some non-threatening subject.
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>72321
No. At least not in the United States. See Nussenzweig v. DiCorcia.
>> Xan
Hmmm, well i havent been a photographer long, but i have yet to run into anyone who wanted to smash my camera. That a common photographers problem?

And how do you personally react? Sounds pretty close to assault (since i doubt anyone would willingly hand $500 of equipment to a stranger to destroy) and personally i think i'd react as such.

I was once walking behind three teenage schoolgirls who looked a little nervously at my camera, but i just cant see anyone reacting with violence towards a photographer. Just cant see any justification for violence.
>> Xan
>>72329

LoLz
>> Anonymous
>>72329
/p/ mods haet paris hilton
>> Anonymous
>>71973
Sorry.

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>> Anonymous
>>72400
Now someone else put pedobear's face on him.
Again, sorry.
>> des
>>72327
If you're heading to a shitty neighborhood, bring an old tank with you.
Even if you don't use it, they make really good flails. An F2 upside the head at the right speed'll knock somebody out pretty good.
>> Anonymous
what a fuckin idiot that guy is
>> Anonymous
>>72405
Which guy?
QUOTE!
>> Anonymous
So did you get that chick's number?
>> Anonymous
>>72326
I know. If you look back, we were discussing France and its laws.
>> Anonymous
I wonder what the photography laws are here in Portugal...