File :-(, x, )
Anonymous
/p/hotographers,

Eos 450D vs Nikon D80
I'm going to japan. They are cheap as a thai-girl. Which should I buy? Is there something better from Nikon in that price range?
>> Anonymous
Well, they're kind of different.

The D80 is at the end of its product cycle while the 450D is brand new.

Also, if anything the D80 is close to semipro while the 450D is entry level.

Nikon and Canon have been sandwiching their models/prices so far, so there's no real equivalent. While the 400D has been missing some features the D80 had, it was a good deal cheaper. The 450D has been caught up and offers a bit more even.

In other words, get the Canon if you have nothing else invested.
>> Anonymous
ah, sorry, eurofag here:
Eos 450D = Digital Rebel XSi
>> Anonymous
Yes, we're well aware what a 450D is.
>> Butterfly !xlgRMYva6s
_Clearly_ he should get a Sony A200.
>> Jeremo !iKGMr61IHM
>>133025

Clearly you need to toss my salad.
>> Butterfly !xlgRMYva6s
>>133028
what kind of phrase is that, seriously.
>> Jeremo !iKGMr61IHM
>>133030

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=toss+my+salad&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozil
la:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
>> Anonymous
If you want a good hand grip, a terrific viewfinder and you are used or like the lcd on top of the camera with the settings, then go D80 hands down.

If you'd rather go for megapixels, probably better noise control and probably better funcionalities go 450D.

Then ask yourself, are you a nikonfag or a canonfag.

I found my happiness in the D200 cause of the WB and ISO buttons on top of the camera in combo with LCD. I don't need anything else. It could have been 3MP.

:/
>> Butterfly !xlgRMYva6s
>>133031
TMI.

Also doesnt that make you a giant faggot now?
>> Anonymous
>>133034
The 450d now has a viewfinder that's very close to as large as the xxd series. That was one of their biggest improvements over the 400d.

>>133000
I'd go 450d. It's amazing value for how much it costs, just don't buy it with the kit lens.
>> Jeremo !iKGMr61IHM
>>133038

Nah, it'd make you a giant faggot for tossing my salad.
>> Anonymous
>>133039

it comes with the 18-55 is

which is pretty damn usable
>> Anonymous
>>133043
Oh i just read that, i thought it shipped with the old school shitty 18-55 non is.
>> Anonymous
>>133043
MiC
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>133034
>I found my happiness in the D200 cause of the WB and ISO buttons on top of the camera
This would've been something I'd really have enjoyed back before I started shooting raw.

(Well, ISO would still be useful. But white balance? Meh.)
>> Anonymous
>>133000
The 450d is going to be a really nice camera, it provides alot of features that were just introduced on the 40d. live view being one of them.
It has spot metering too which is pretty damn cool.

>>133034
There is an iso button on top of the 450d.
http://www.product-reviews.net/wp-content/userimages/2008/01/canon-digital-rebel-xsi-eos-450d-top.jp
g
>> Anonymous
what's the big deal about the ISO button?

is it just because it's not dedicated instead of having a double function?

also, direct print is now a double function with the WB button, lulz
>> Anonymous
>>133075
It's just a convenience thing, before i think that you had to navigate through menus and take your eye away from the viewfinder to change iso, and it gets frustrating since it's such an important function.
>> Butterfly !xlgRMYva6s
>>133077
Is it really? I dont change ISO much during shooting since I normally know what im going to be working with and wont need to constantly ajust it much.
>> Anonymous
>>133077

i'm pretty sure both the 350d and 400d had the ISO button, it's just that it was used for navigation as well
>> Anonymous
Nikon. It's always Nikon, especially for low-to-mid-level cameras.
>> Anonymous
>>133084
Back it up, nikonfag.

You know what entry canon dslrs have that nikons dont? iso 100.
>> Anonymous
>>133084
We can autofocus our 50mm prime.
>> Anonymous
>>133088
thats why theres have the D50.
>> Anonymous
When starting out, which would be cheaper, including the price of lenses and maybe a flash?
>> Anonymous
>>133093

Same price, depends entirely on what lenses you're buying really.
>> Anonymous
>>133092

except they don't make it anymore
>> Anonymous
>>133000

If you go to japan and buy it, it will have a label that says "EOS KISS DIGITAL ###".

Just FYI.
>> Anonymous
>>133096
good thing we live in a world where things can be sold and resold, even after the original owner does not want it anymore
>> Anonymous
You'll be fine either way, but for d80 vs 450d, the 450d has many more features.
>> Anonymous
>>133099

enjoy buying used gear

that's just a shitty ass excuse from nikonfags, keep on kissing nikon's ass for selling you a crippled camera
>> Anonymous
>>133105
escept i never bought a D40. but seriously, nothing wrong with used gear. plus the D50 is said to have awesome high iso performance.
>> Anonymous
>>133106
except*
>> Anonymous
>>133105
yeah man, always buy new. btw, you really take some great phot ... oh wait. that's right.

shiny new toys don't make up for your lack of skill.

You might learn something if you spent more money on classes and less on 'the next big thing'. And I know you haven't because the first thing they teach you in photography 101 is to take advantage of people who've fallen on the retail blade.

OP, they are both good. Buy the body that corresponds with which lens family you like the most. Keep in mind that you come for the body but stay for the lens. Eventually, you will replace the camera but the lens will potentially last you your life.
>> Anonymous
>>133085
What is a D40x/D60?
>> Anonymous
>>133130

um, buying used or new isn't really the point, the point is the d40 and d60 are failures of cameras

nikon doesn't make the d50 anymore

eventually, there will be no more on any market

the only entry level cameras nikon makes are the d40 and d60

ENJOY YOUR CASTRATED CAMERA
>> thefamilyman !!rTVzm2BgTOa
>>133148
i'll buy either one for my gf. She has tiny hands and she loves using my D70.
>> Anonymous
>>133148
You miss the point. The D40/D60 aren't designed or marketed for people who give a shit about their old AF lenses or primes.
>> Butterfly !xlgRMYva6s
Itt who bought worse cameras than a Sony A100.
>> Anonymous
>>133177
Go troll somewhere else.
>> Anonymous
>>133038
balls aren't touching
>> Anonymous
>>133160

you're missing the point

some nikonfag anon said "Nikon. It's always Nikon, especially for low-to-mid-level cameras."

we're just proving nikon's entry leve is failure just for that one big WHOOPS LET'S CASTRATE THE CAMERA
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
OP here,
I'm not even sure about the D80 anymore. D80 vs D60... goddamnit I hate those threads where people whine about what camera they should buy instead of doing researches on their own. I did but I still cant decide.
And since I only have a Nikon D50 with a standard lense on it I also cant decide if I should go on with nikon or change to canon.

Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeNIKON CORPORATIONCamera ModelNIKON D50Camera SoftwareAdobe Photoshop CS3 WindowsMaximum Lens Aperturef/3.5Sensing MethodOne-Chip Color AreaColor Filter Array Pattern822Focal Length (35mm Equiv)27 mmImage-Specific Properties:Image OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution300 dpiVertical Resolution300 dpiImage Created2008:03:01 12:54:09Exposure Time1/25 secF-Numberf/3.5Exposure ProgramManualExposure Bias0 EVMetering ModePatternLight SourceUnknownFlashNo FlashFocal Length18.00 mmColor Space InformationsRGBImage Width1000Image Height576RenderingNormalExposure ModeManualWhite BalanceManualScene Capture TypeStandardGain ControlNoneContrastSoftSaturationNormalSharpnessNormalSubject Distance RangeUnknown
>> Anonymous
>>133265
if you have a D50, why the fuck do you even consider D60? It's inferior to yours in most aspects.
>> Anonymous
>>133265
Go canon.
>> Anonymous
>>133271
because I'm a consumer whore and think "OH IT'S NEW ON THE MARKET IT MUST BE GOOOOOOOOOOD!!!"

But now that I checked the data sheets, what makes you say D50 > D60 ?
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>133275
The main thing is that the D50 has an autofocus motor in-body, which means that it has the ability to autofocus with lenses that don't have in-lens autofocus motors. I.e., you can use the cheap and excellent 50mm f/1.8 with your camera, but you'll have to manually focus if you want to use it on a D60.

And in general, moving to the D60 isn't enough of a jump up to be worth it. If you're going to stick with Nikon (and you should if you have a D50--even if you only have the crappy kit lens, if you get another lens in the future, you'll be able to use it on both cameras. You can use your D50 as a backup body. And the learning curve will be a lot shallower since you're already accustomed to Nikon controls) get the D80. And get some better glass for it than the standard kit lens.

tl;dr: D80
>> Anonymous
>>133275
D50 vs. D60:
1) AF with non-AF-S/AF-I lenses.
2) Bigger, better grip.
3) Secondary LCD on top.
4) Miscellaneous features like bracketing that you may or may not need.

D60 vs. D50:
1) Bigger main LCD.
2) LOL MEGAPIXULZ.
3) Dust reduction system that doesn't work (if it's the same as in the D300)
4) Gay in-camera photoshop filters.
>> Anonymous
>>133202
Nikon's entry level is far from a failure, buddy. It's doing the same shit that Nintendo is doing with the Wii: targeting casuals with simplicity and budget in mind. The market that the D40 is aimed at doesn't care if it's castrated or not, they're perfectly happy with the 18-50 and 55-200 kit, or ecstatic over the 18-200VR.

Of course the cameras aren't going to be good for anyone that wants anything more than a basic, entry-level camera, but that's not what OP wanted and Nikon's line-up shouldn't be deemed a "failure" because it doesn't appeal to the people they're not targeting.
>> Anonymous
>>133279

Come on dude..
Answer is D fucking 80... Why are we still discussing...?
>> Anonymous
>>133300
indeed
>> Anonymous
>>133279
>>133277
k you're right.

So back to D80 vs 450D
But this one I seem to have decide on my own. Thanks for your help guys!
>> Anonymous
I have a D80- it's my baby

nikonfags ftw
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
>>133030

I actually like the phrase
>> Anonymous
>>133299Nikon's entry level is far from a failure, buddy. It's doing the same shit that Nintendo is doing with the Wii: targeting casuals with simplicity and budget in mind. The market that the D40 is aimed at doesn't care if it's castrated or not, they're perfectly happy with the 18-50 and 55-200 kit, or ecstatic over the 18-200VR.

ROFL

what a fucking shitty ass excuse for having an inferior product.

hey guys, our camera sucks shit so let's just say it's marketed to people who don't know shit and call it a day

OKAY

let's pretend that works

john doe goes to best buy, sees a d60 and a 450d

HI SIR THE NIKON D60 HAS 10 MP AND DUST CLEANING!

THE CANON 450D HAS 12 MP, DUST CLEANING AND LIVE VIEW SIR, LIVE MOTHERFUCKING VIEW!

even if the consumer ignores the fact the d60 has limited selection when it comes to lenses that af, IT'S STILL AN INFERIOR PRODUCT COMPARED TO OTHER COMPANIES' ENTRY LEVEL CAMERAS
>> Anonymous
>>133354
>john doe goes to best buy, sees a d60 and a 450d
>HI SIR THE NIKON D60 HAS 10 MP AND DUST CLEANING!
>AH, THAT SHELF? NO, SIR, YOU SHOULDN'T LOOK THERE BECAUSE NIKON CLEARLY HAS BETTER IMAGE QUALITY. (also I get more premium on each D60 than 450D lulz!)

Fix'd for how camera merchants actually work.
>> Anonymous
>>133356

lulz, you can spin it all you want

doesn't change the fact that the d60 is an inferior product with less features
>> Anonymous
>>133360
>>133354
Not the original poster here, but the D60 is way cheaper than the 450D and if it's your first buy, well it's a good deal.
>> Anonymous
>>133360
Indeed, but it still will sell given the right price and marketing. Remember that Canon isn't dropping the 400D, and Nikon mainly intends to compete with that, not the more expensive 450D.
>> Anonymous
(nikon D80 >) canon 400D/450D > nikon D50/D60
canon 40D < nikon D300
canon 5d > all
canon 1D > all

Its that simple.
>> Anonymous
>>133393

you forgot the d3

which is between the 5d and 1d/ds
>> Anonymous
>>133393
>canon 5d > all
>canon 1D > all
did you just divide by zero?
>> Anonymous
>>133393
HASSELBLAD H3D BITCHES
>> Anonymous
>>133000you forgot the d3

which is between the 5d and 1d/ds

Yes, youre right.
>> Anonymous
Still, the eos 5D is such perfection in looks, size, and handling. Id pick the 5D over any other camera, for any other use then sports and completly static studio photography.
>> Anonymous
>eos 5D is such perfection

HAHAHA OH WOW
>> Anonymous
>>133408

jealous nikonfag
>> Anonymous
>>133412

ITT: Canonfags BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWW
>> Anonymous
>>133412

ITT

Canonfags can enjoy their shitty grip cameras that cramp their faggot, girly hands.
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
Christ, /p/ is normally good about not descending into Nikon vs. Canon flamewars.

Kindly GTFO, the lot of you. Anyone who says Nikon is better than Canon or Canon is better than Nikon is either trying to justify their own purchase or trying to sell you a camera. If you look at 'em objectively, they are both made of roughly equal quantities of win and fail.
>> Anonymous
>>133356Fix'd for how camera merchants actually work.
Fucking truth. Canon just dropped entirely the meager spiff they had on the XTi, so I'll be fucked if I'm selling it or any other Canon piece of shit over Nikon.
>> Anonymous
>>133038
did no-one else notice the obvious admission that Butterfly is a guy?
I believe that closes the case.

Unless i missed some sort of great unveiling thread that answered that question before...
>> Jeremo !iKGMr61IHM
>>133614

Buttertrap has never actually defended himself as a girl. Not that i recall. Infact he never defends himself period.

When we call him out and ask for his photosite, he doesn't post it

When it's that he should stop claiming to be a girl, he doesn't defend it.

He's pretty much the best troll we have.
>> Anonymous
If I were you I would just go out to your camera story and hold the nikon and the canon cameras because if the ergonomics are bad, well you won't bring the camera with you because it's a pain in the ass to hold. Personally I bought my d80 for this ands sometimes I do consider to switch to canon because they have more verity, but I'll just wait and see.
>> Butterfly !xlgRMYva6s
>>133703
http://omg.purewin.se/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=1590

SHIT! WHAT NOW?!

Also <3 u too Jeremo
>> Anonymous !SDPEsPMnww
>>133830
Wow, you're just as shitty at photography as I thought you were ;_;
>> Anonymous
>>133830
I_can't_believe_this_shit.jpg
>> Butterfly !xlgRMYva6s
>>133832
Duh, the stuff in Japan is the first 3 weeks of owning a camera. I havent uploaded anything for ages, got a big pile of stuff I need to post first.
>> Anonymous !SDPEsPMnww
>>133834
Ok, how about defending yourself with worthwhile photos? Or with a rifle? <3
>> Butterfly !xlgRMYva6s
>>133837
Or with photos of a rifle?!

I never said they were any good, i just dont post it much because ive been over them before and there is nothing in it for me to learn.
>> Anonymous
>>133834

You use that excuse EVERY FUCKING TIME. For months. You have worn it out. How about showing something for once that you can't duck and dodge with like a greasy politician? Come on, I bet you have it in you.
>> Anonymous
>>133838

You pretend you know your shit but you have never posted a photo yet that you didn't have some convenient excuse to hide behind. Pathetic.
>> Butterfly !xlgRMYva6s
ITT What i knew would happen and people who think that being a good photographer is required to be a good critic.
>> Anonymous
>>133853
>being a good photographer is required to be a good critic.

If you can define excellence or shittyness in other's work, can't you do so in your own? Photography doesn't rely as much on skill as singing or drawing. A creative person with a good eye, zero skill in photoshop and a Canon Ixus can take a better picture than a person with a Canon 1Ds mk III and ubar skill in Photoshop but with no creativity.
>> Butterfly !xlgRMYva6s
>>133871
I have very little creativity, I am well aware of my lacking in that department which is why i tend to be doing travel photography and landscape/urban.
I agree with the last part of what you said, gear doesnt make the photography (for most cases) but if you look at my critisims of photos, you should find they are actually quite accurate.

Also critiquing your own work is nigh on impossible.
>> Anonymous
>>133879Also critiquing your own work is nigh on impossible.

I don't think that's true at all. It doesn't come naturally, but you can definitely do it. It's probably the most important skill a photographer can have.
>> Anonymous
>>133871
Creativity in Photography is in the "eye" of the beholder. ;-P
>> Anonymous
Win:
http://omg.purewin.se/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=1235
http://omg.purewin.se/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=1268
http://omg.purewin.se/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=1607
http://omg.purewin.se/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=1102
>> Butterfly !xlgRMYva6s
>>133958
First one i didnt take duh, it doesnt have any exif.

>>133902
I didnt say impossible, i said its hard. Learn to read.
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>133960
You said "nigh on impossible". That's a bit stronger than "hard"
>> Anonymous
>>133958
oh lawd, is dat sum extrem slow shutter speed?
>> Butterfly !xlgRMYva6s
>>133976
needs more EXTREM wording action.

>>133978
Yes but because of the A100's superior ISS and my godhands its fine.
>> Anonymous
>>133997

No. It is not fine.
>> Anonymous
So as a guy who is searching for a new camera also. I thought this thread would bring some good insight.

What the hell happened here /p/? I have been looking for cameras since like Dec. all I have learned is I don't want Olympus because of the 4:3 system.

This was a pretty bad thread lol. I should just go out and buy a Sony A200.
>> Butterfly !xlgRMYva6s
>>134041
A100 > A200

seriously.
>> Anonymous
>>134044
Why? I thought there was no difference. Except that the newer model auto-focuses 1.7x faster.
>> Butterfly !xlgRMYva6s
>>134143
Old model has two control dials, also the 1.04 firmware greatly increased the AF.

Also its cheaper.
>> Anonymous
what's the point of 2 control dials?

serious question
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>134154
Makes setting exposure way easier if you're going full manual.
>> Anonymous
>>134157Makes setting exposure way easier if you're going full manual.

hmm, you mean the 2 knobs on top of the camera?

the right one changes shooting modes and the left one accesses various functions
>> Butterfly !xlgRMYva6s
>>134157
>>134154
Not two rockers for shutter/aperture (which neither have) but a dedicated dial for ISO/WB/Flash/ETC which the A200+ have put in menus instead.

A200 has factory vertical grips which are pretty awesome (really) which is about the only significant upgrade.
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>134164
Ah.

Nevermind, then.
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
>>134164

the A100 doesn't have a battery grip option?

and sorry if i'm being stupid, are we talking about those 2?

Camera-Specific Properties:Camera SoftwareAdobe Photoshop CS3 MacintoshImage-Specific Properties:Image OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution72 dpiVertical Resolution72 dpiImage Created2008:03:02 21:53:01Color Space InformationUncalibratedImage Width1024Image Height768
>> Butterfly !xlgRMYva6s
>>134166
yes and yes (see post)

There are some aftermarket ones, one of them is pretty nice but because the A100 was never designed for it, there are no controls on it.
>> Anonymous
>>134157Makes setting exposure way easier if you're going full manual.

on most cameras, there's a scroller thing you change change aperture and shutter speed if you're in Tv or Av

is there a camera with 2 scrollers so you can change both?
>> Anonymous
>>134168
many. the mid range+ nikons have one near the thumb, another on the front of the grip.
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>134168
Yeah. Pretty much all cameras above the entry level ones. E.g., Nikon D80 or Canon 40D.
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
oh, i see

on the canon, it's the large wheel in the back?

so one changes aperture, the other changes shutter speed, hmm

i don't think i could change both at the same time with the same hand, i like the one wheel approach i have right now, holding a button to change the other setting
>> Blackadder !!bSWRwu/NqzQ
>>134173

I suppose everyone has their preferences but I find that a two-wheel system is much nicer to use. You might change your mind once you try it.
>> Anonymous
>>134173

lol at the d300's 51 af points

what is it like in the viewfinder? do you see all 51 boxes?
>> Anonymous
>>134175

yeah, haven't tried it but it just seems counter intuitive, gotta scroll with your thumb then scroll again with your index finger

with one wheel, i scroll with my index finger, then hold a button and scroll again, my hand hasn't really moved

or maybe i'm just jealous i don't have a prosumer/pro camera
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>134173
I haven't tried the other wise, but I would like to. The main reason I shoot M is when I'm using flash, where I mainly just want to change aperture, so I pretty much always have to hit an extra button to make any exposure changes. And when I miss, I end up taking my camera past its ability to flash sync, which is annoying. It'd be a lot easier if there were a dedicated dial for it.
>> Butterfly !xlgRMYva6s
I shoot full manual and two dials would be nice, its the reason i wont get a VG for the A100 because it has NO dials on it at all!
>> Anonymous
>>134179
no, only the active point is shown in the viewfinder
>> Anonymous
>>134187

hmm, you only see a red dot i assume? or did they invent a way to mak a rectangle box appear
>> Anonymous
>>134182
well, with my nikon, the only thing that moves is my index finger, which you would have to do anyway with the 1 wheel. my thumb is right next to the second wheel already anyway. your hand may be a different shape/size where thats not the case, but yeah.
>> Anonymous
>>134188
yes, its a rectangular box. but just the one active one. theres one focusing mode with a certain setting where itll show the multiple points being used at the time, but you cant have it show all of them at once.
>> Anonymous
>>134190

hmm, how does one overlay a rectangle box on the viewfinder? a red dot, i can imagine it's some kind of light diode thing lighting up but a rectangle box?
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>134191
Ever use a digital wristwatch?
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
>>134195

???
>> Anonymous
>>134191
How about just going out and trying the fucking thing? For fuck's sake, there's only so much that can be described through text on the fucking internet.
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>134198
Notice how the little black bars are sometimes there, but other times not, and it's electronically controlled?

Yeah, same thing.
>> Anonymous
>>134207

d300 and d3 are in short supply, good luck finding one for demo
>> Anonymous
>>134210

yeah but there's the lcd display underneath or matrix display, whatever it's called

for the viewfinder, you'd have to project black on a lens
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>134211
From what I've heard, short supply online but fairly easy to find in actual stores.
>> Anonymous
>>134213

i think you and i read the same post on here, i think it was fence

but outside of B&H, they're hard to find
>> Anonymous
>>134173

I loves my 40D.

The two dials is nice. I moved up from an original Rebel where I had to do the tap/hold then index finger to change things. Being able to change the aperture just like that is fairly convenient.

Where it is really useful is in going through pictures or changing other settings in the menu. That wheel can be turned very slow or very quickly allowing for convenient navigation.

By default on the 40D, the back dial goes through 1 pictures at a time. The index finger dial skips 10 at a time.
>> Anonymous
>>134211
Ritz Camera has dozens of D300s and has D3's in their warehouse.
>> Anonymous
Nikon D80.

Cheaper than the 450D but not necessarily crappier
>> Anonymous
>>134224
It's only about quality, price is the same in the motherland of all weaboos