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Anonymous
hay /p/. I've sorta been on a camera history bent lately, and I've decided that I want to get me a Leica camera. What would be the most cost-effective way to get my first leica, the M series, or the screwmount leicas?

Should I get a leica at all? I of course plan on actually using the camera, unlike many other people who just buy them to become shelf queens. I've seen these cameras to be really expensive, but that's usually the mint condition collectors item ones. Is it unreasonable to expect to find an 'old beater' type leica that isn't pristine, but still does what it's supposed to? I imagine that such a camera would be much cheaper than one of the collector mint display models.

pic kinda related to my rambling.
>> ac
Fail for assuming there's a cost-effective way to get a Leica. ;)

Quick eBay search tells me that Leica Ms are going for over $500US even for old beaters. Looks like you can expect to pay just a couple hundred for something screw mount, so there's that. Also remember to budget in cost of lenses.

I had the Leica lust for a while. I had the same thought as you--an old beater in shit cosmetic condition but good working condition should be cheap. Problem is, cameras like that are like that because they're still being actively used by their owners. Any old ones in good condition are expensive because of the fucking collectors. New ones in good condition are expensive because, well, they're new. Old ones in working but beat-up condition are prized possessions of their owners.

Eventually, I just got a Canon Canonet QL17 GIII and gave up on the Leica dream. Way too fucking pricy for me.
>> Anonymous
I have been there and done that. A mate of mine bought an M3(The poor bugger had so many problems with it, but he assures me its fixed now) and ever since I touched and played with his M3, I wanted a Lieca. So I viewed every second hand page I could and ended up getting an M6. Cost me $1600 for the body and then it took me ages to find an M mount lens, that cost me $400. So the total was AU$2k. What will I get for it now if I sold it? Fuck all.

How many rolls of film have I put though the camera? Ten if I am lucky and I have had it for 2 years now. SO a warning, if you can find a nice looking M Leica at a reasonable price, and you should with the M8 around and people selling off kidneys to afford one, then you might get lucky. If not, stick with a Bessa R, L, R2, R2A, R3A, R2M, R3M, R4A or R4M. Cheaper and work better than your old M2's, 3's, 4's.
>> Anonymous
Don't forget to check out http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/ as they have some good shit on sale at resonable prices and have tons of info.
>> Anonymous
so basically what you're all saying is that If i really want a Leica, I'll have to pay the leica price, but that there are cameras with excellent quality like leica that aren't nearly as expensive. That about it?

I suppose for now I'll just stick with my Argus Matchmatic as far as rangefinders go.
>> heavyweather !4AIf7oXcbA
If you want an inexpensive entry into the Leica M mount, get a Voigtlander Bessa T. They're inexpensive yet pretty well built and reliable. $200 for a body, and you can probably find a Summicron for like $300-400, which is a relatively affordable little kit.
>> Anonymous
>>45609

There are those as options, but if you shop around, you can find a nice Leica that suits your price range.

Check out http://www.keh.com/ and the rangefinder forums and you might find a nice cheap Leica. A Bessa R2 in Olive green is a great camera, it all depends on what you think of them when you handle them.

An M3 is a really nice Camera to use, but when things go wrong, its expensive to get fixed. Also Leica glass is expensive and it works just as well on a Bessa.

Just be warned, there are many Leica users who are Leica Snobs. They take fucking terrible shots with good expensive gear which they think makes them look good. Its all LIES.

A good camera doesn't make you a good photographer.
>> Anonymous
>>45719
> A good camera doesn't make you a good photographer.
But surely it will get me chick! ..right?
>> Anonymous
>>45725

Negative. Chicks have nfi about cameras and those photog chicks who do will just laugh at your penis extension. Its a win loose situation. ;)
>> ac
>>45725
You could potentially be all like "Hey, I just got a new camera. Can I take some pictures of you?

... Naked?"

And that might work. But that will work no matter what the new camera is, and actually one that looks more modern would work better than a Leica here.
>> Anonymous
>>45745

Is that before or after the chick takes your new Leica and caves your head in with it?
>> Anonymous
'Another Leica related death.. WHEN WILL THEY LEARN?!'
>> ac
>>45747
Before. She takes the Leica and bashes your head in right after the "Naked" and the accompanying eyebrow-wiggle.

But one of the reasons Leicas are so prized is that they have very sturdy construction, so it might survive. And that's the important thing.
>> Anonymous
>>45750

rofl, dead right on that one.. Altho if you do drop the camera, the rangefinger alignment goes out of whack big time and this can be tres expensive.
>> Anonymous
Forget Leica. They're overpriced.

I bought my two film cameras (good condition) for less then what people are paying for an empty Leica carton box. Seriously.
>> Anonymous
If I had the money to spend, I'd go out and buy an M8 and an MP.

Unfortunately, I don't.

Here's something Leica should do: raise the prices even higher on the bullshit "collector's edition" models they sell to collectors who never even open the box. Use the difference to make the M series affordable.
>> Anonymous
>>45818
hehe, yeah. Make it out of painted cardboard with some lead weights in it to balance out the weight. ;)
>> Anonymous
I used to think leicas were overpriced and their owners were stupid. Then I acquired one for a very reasonable price... it's the best camera I've ever used and I would never get rid of it. They're expensive, but they're worth it.
>> Anonymous
So basically, Leica cameras are excellent, but artificially overpriced. Good to know. I suppose when I strike oil and get rich, I'll get me a famed M3 or a II/III and one of them 50mm summicrons everyone always talks about. Right now I'm going to go check out the voigtlander lineup. Hear something about a really nice bessa that uses the M42 screwmount, which sounds very intriguing. Thanks guys.
>> Anonymous
>>45839

Voigtlander makes great stuff. I have a Voigtlander lens (15mm super-heliar) to go with my M3 and Leica 50mm and 135mm, and it's great. The build quality is just about on par with Letz and far better than any of the modern manufacturers. It's also very sharp and very well corrected against flare. It's definitely the best ultrawide I've ever owned (including the Nikkor 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 14mm f/2.8, and Sigma 10-20mm)

I've never owned a voigtlander camera, but I've played with a few and they seem to be really nice. I think they would be a great budget alternative to a Leica.
>> Anonymous
>>45857

The CV 15mm lens is like sex, but only better. Fits on the Bessa L perfectly and its a great combo! Altho having a girlfriend would be a better preference, but having a 15mm CV lens and Bessa L with a girlfriend = AWESOMENESS!
>> Anonymous
If you want to spend around $1000 get an m6. If you want to spend around $500 get a voigtlander. If you want cheaper look for a hexar or one of the canon/nikon rangefinders. Also, have a look at the mamiya medium format rangefinders.
>> Anonymous
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Could someone tell a bit more about those Cosina Voigtlander Bessa cameras? They look quite decent, but how do they feel? Are all models equal in build quality and what are the main differences between them?

Bessa-R3A, don't know if want.

Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeCanonCamera ModelCanon PowerShot A80Maximum Lens Aperturef/2.8Sensing MethodOne-Chip Color AreaLens Size7.81 - 23.41 mmFirmware VersionFirmware Version 1.00Image-Specific Properties:Image OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution180 dpiVertical Resolution180 dpiImage Created2005:05:28 21:47:01Exposure Time1/20 secF-Numberf/2.8Lens Aperturef/2.8Exposure Bias0 EVFlashNo Flash, CompulsoryFocal Length7.81 mmColor Space InformationsRGBImage Width2272Image Height1704RenderingNormalExposure ModeAutoScene Capture TypeStandardExposure ModeProgramFocus TypeClose-Up (Macro Mode)Metering ModeEvaluativeISO Speed Rating200SharpnessNormalSaturationNormalContrastNormalShooting ModeManualImage SizeLargeFocus ModeSingleDrive ModeSingleFlash ModeOffCompression SettingSuperfineMacro ModeMacroSubject Distance0.210 mWhite BalanceCloudyExposure Compensation3Sensor ISO Speed192Image Number160-6094
>> Anonymous
>>46205

The newer the camera, the better the build. Manual ones are good, because if the bat's die, then you can still use it. I had a Bessa R, it was a good camera, but not as good as the Bessa R2. I should have got that instead, but the Bessa R2/3A's are nice and feel good. But its all up to you, you really need to get a hold of one and see what it feels like in your own hand before you buy it. Good cameras tho. I think the R4M/A's are really nice. I quite like the R2A in grey tho. If only they would bring out the 18mm lens.
>> Anonymous
>>46205

Just a reminder, the 40mm lens on that R3 is fucking sweet as. One of the best lenses I have ever used. On par with my 40mm cron. Good build as well, since it was on the production line that they made the Ziess lenses on.
>> Anonymous
>>46208
> the 40mm lens on that R3 is fucking sweet
Why? Sorry, I'm not really familiar with rangefinder cameras. What would make a specific lens work better with one body than other? I assume it's related to the finder? Also, if you don't mind explaining, what exactly does "Finder magnification" mean? Does x1.0 mean that the finder is physically bigger than x0.7?
>> Anonymous
>>46324

It's not so much the body (in fact, a lot of the times the body doesn't matter at all), as it is the construction and design of the lens. It just so happens that that lens comes with that body. A conventional lens should work with any camera that supports its mount. The only exceptions I can think of are obscure mounts like the Argus screwmount for C3 cameras and such. I'm probably mistaken, but I believe all of the modern-era voigtlander Rangefinders (the ones made by Cosina) use the Leica M mount, so really, the body is just a thing you attach your awesome lenses to. You dont need a leica to use legendary leica glass.
>> Anonymous
>>46343

Yeah, except the Bessa R and L are screwmount where as the rest are M mount. Basicly the CV 40mm lens is fantastic on any M mount or screwmount camera that can support it. Also when you look though a x1.0 mag finder, its like looking though a window, nothing is enlarged. Where as a 0.78 mag finger is smaller. Google for more info and pics to show the size differece. If you wear glasses, 0.7 mag are better than 1.0x unless you put a diopter thingo on it.

Difference between an R2A and an R3A

http://www.cameraquest.com/jpg4/vr3a-frame.jpeg

Cheap M3

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost-classifieds/showproduct.php?product=4708&cat=3