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Anonymous
Hay /p/,

I am a /b/tard who has wandered onto a different board to humbly request your advice. I want to buy a digital camera for casual usage but I can't go much over 250 dollars. The first priority is picture quality; I went the best quality for my dollar. The next priority is size; I'd like a small camera, but if that means I'm going to lose quality I'd rather go larger. My last consideration is controls; I'd like to have a few options and, although I'm just getting into casual photography I'd like something a bit more than 'point and shoot'.

I'm coming to the people who I think would know best so thanks a lot for your input.
EXIF data available. Clickhereto show/hide.
Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeSONYCamera ModelDSC-P41Camera SoftwareQuickTime 7.1.6Maximum Lens Aperturef/2.8Image-Specific Properties:Image OrientationTop, Left-HandImage OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution72 dpiVertical Resolution72 dpiImage Created2007:06:02 22:37:44Exposure Time1/800 secF-Numberf/5.6Exposure ProgramNormal ProgramISO Speed Rating100Exposure Bias0 EVMetering ModePatternLight SourceUnknownFlashFlash, Compulsory, Return Not DetectedFocal Length5.00 mmColor Space InformationsRGB
>> Anonymous
dpreview.com
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
I'm really fond of the Canon PowerShot A series for small and high quality. Especially the A6x0 line.
>> Anonymous
>>52661
Thanks for the thoughtful response, I'm glad you offered me a website that includes your personal experience and opinion... oh wait....

No, all kidding aside, i'll check it out, thanks.
>> Anonymous
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I like my Sony Cyber-Shot. It's a point and shoot, but I can take pretty decent pictures with it.

Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeSONYCamera ModelDSC-W100Camera SoftwareQuickTime 7.1.5Maximum Lens Aperturef/2.8Image-Specific Properties:Image OrientationTop, Left-HandImage OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution72 dpiVertical Resolution72 dpiImage Created2007:05:14 14:31:58Exposure Time1/125 secF-Numberf/2.8Exposure ProgramNormal ProgramISO Speed Rating125Exposure Bias0 EVMetering ModePatternLight SourceUnknownFlashNo Flash, CompulsoryFocal Length7.90 mmColor Space InformationsRGBImage Width3264Image Height2448RenderingNormalExposure ModeAutoWhite BalanceAutoScene Capture TypeStandardContrastNormalSaturationNormalSharpnessNormal
>> Anonymous
>>52664
I'm not the poster of the link, but dpreview.com is a great site that reviews lots of cameras from p+s all the way up to shit like the leica M8.
>> Anonymous
>>52665
I'm using a Sony Cyber-Shot now as you can see from my EXIF. I got it a few years ago, it was a good camera but it has its flaws.
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>52668
The fact that they review everything from the 2 MP keychain cam from Big Bob's Optics And Discount Bait to the Canon 1D Mk III means that it's not really a good place to start for a search for a new digital camera. Great place to research your options once you have a few in mind, though.
>> Anonymous
Somebody's suggested the Samsung S850. What does /p/ think, i've never used a Samsung.
>> Anonymous
>>52686
actually, now that I look at it, it looks pretty crappy
>> Anonymous
What about the Sony DSC-W80?
>> Anonymous
>>52660
I prefer dcresource.com. I first recommended the site on /p/ a long time ago, but I guess it's not as populat as dpreview.

Anyway, I second Canon p&s cameras. If you really need a compact camera, go for the SD models which are more sleek in design. But I usually find that the Powershots are not that much bulkier and are better cameras overall (with more control and versatility). Also check out Nikon as well. They probably have some equivalent model at whatever price range you're looking for.

Don't count out Sony or Olympus either. I find that Sony has some weirdly shaped bodies. But if it feels comfortable in your hands, you should get it.
>> Anonymous
>>52694
I found some of their reviews at dcresource.com to be a bit more comprehensive.

Anyway, I took a look at the cyber-shot DSC-W80 and it's looking pretty good to me. Any thoughts?
>> Anonymous
Highest rating on Newegg is the Canon A630, I usually find Newegg to be a pretty decent source for customer feedback.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16830120069
>> Anonymous
OP here, I'm stuck between a Sony DSC-W80 and a Canon Canon A630. I'm leaning toward the canon A630. /p/, what do you think?
>> Anonymous
>>52738
/p/ will usually pick the Canon or Nikon if available.
>> Anonymous
Get the A630. If its anything like the A620, its wonderful. Full manual on a medium priced camera is a great function, plus with a firmware hack you can shoot RAW.
>> Anonymous
A630 without a doubt...
If you want quality, forget sony, and learn to do the post processing yourself, instead of letting your camera to wash your high iso pictures
>> Anonymous
I'm have A630 also it is very pleased with him. macroshooting is excellent. But at shooting on a long distance small lacks are visible.
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>53016
> I have an A630 as well, and I'm very pleased with it. Its macro mode is excellent. However, it has some quality issues when shooting in telephoto mode.
This is my best guess as to what that person was saying.
>> heavyweather !4AIf7oXcbA
Sony is fucking fail, don't touch it with a ten foot pole.

I also dislike dpreview greatly because their reviews are never anything more than pixelpeeping and resolution charts. There's never any actual shooting experience or photographic experience behind their reviews. Dry, boring, and pretty worthless. I'll take a bullshit Ken Rockwell review over their stuff any time.
>> Anonymous
my photos with EXIF is here http://2ch.ru/p/res/721.html ))
>> Anonymous
>>53020
Agreed, although they do have one or two pages about how the body feels in the hand.

But otherwise, all technical.
>> Anonymous
God, of course it's technical! What did you expect? Should they just take the camera and go out shooting, then report how did they like it without facts, examples and evidences? Who would read something like that? What good would that be? There's enough bias around. Give me all the facts so I can decide.
>> heavyweather !4AIf7oXcbA
>>53041
I mean they omit KEY details that matter to me. For instance, how conspicuous the camera is, both in terms of construction, styling, and shutter/mirror sound. They never mentioned anything about the D50's tendency to overexpose and blow out highlights, about the shitty matrix metering, or ridiculous unreliability of the LCD panel for previewing thumbnails.
>> Anonymous
>>53041
>then report how did they like it without facts, examples and evidence

No, with.

Seeing how noisy a photograph a camera produces at five or six times the size anyone will ever use it at is very close to useless.

Being told about the respective merits, demerits, and uses of a camera and how good of a tool it is for making photographs in the real world is very useful.
>> Anonymous
>>53055
> For instance, how conspicuous the camera is, both in terms of construction, styling, and shutter/mirror sound.
Your just trolling. They do describe the look/feel/sound of the camera in grate details, they even have MP3 of the shutter release sound.

> They never mentioned anything about the D50's tendency to overexpose and blow out highlights, about the shitty matrix metering, or ridiculous unreliability of the LCD panel for previewing thumbnails.
You just don't know how to use the camera.

>>53057
Enlighten me, what are those important "merits, demerits, and uses of a camera" that they neglect?
>> Anonymous
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Hay guys, it's the OP,

I got the A630 and I like it a lot. Maybe, if you guys are lucky (read unlucky) I'll post some of my quality expert (read crappy beginner) shots for you tomorrow.

Thanks to everyone for their input. Pic related; it's my cat.

Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeCanonCamera ModelCanon PowerShot A630Maximum Lens Aperturef/2.8Sensing MethodOne-Chip Color AreaImage-Specific Properties:Horizontal Resolution72 dpiVertical Resolution72 dpiImage Created2007:06:04 21:27:29Exposure Time1/60 secF-Numberf/2.8Lens Aperturef/2.8Exposure Bias0 EVMetering ModeCenter Weighted AverageFlashFlash, CompulsoryFocal Length7.30 mmColor Space InformationsRGBImage Width1023Image Height768RenderingNormalExposure ModeAutoWhite BalanceManualScene Capture TypeStandard
>> elf_man
>>53144
And so it begins...
>> Anonymous
>>53057

i posted that first comment with dpreview.

its really nothing more than a starting point. it offers great galleries from each camera and also lets you do a cool side by side of the specs from each camera.

the bottom line of each review has some really useful info in there, and its not all techno jargon, either.

the forums are pretty solid, and noise tests you talk of are like 1/40th of all the tests they do.

getting out to a camera store and holding the camera is a TOTAL necessity, but there is no way you can get the info that dpreview gives you from a sales person at a store.

that website is a useful tool, and fairly unbiased source of just about the most detailed and comprehensive info about digital cameras.
>> Anonymous
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My cat again. I'm really impressed with the detail and ease of use. I'm adjusting things manually and I haven't tried auto much. I'll try that later.

Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeCanonCamera ModelCanon PowerShot A630Maximum Lens Aperturef/3.5Sensing MethodOne-Chip Color AreaImage-Specific Properties:Horizontal Resolution72 dpiVertical Resolution72 dpiImage Created2007:06:04 22:10:34Exposure Time1/60 secF-Numberf/3.5Lens Aperturef/3.5Exposure Bias0 EVMetering ModeCenter Weighted AverageFlashFlash, CompulsoryFocal Length17.34 mmColor Space InformationsRGBImage Width1024Image Height768RenderingNormalExposure ModeAutoWhite BalanceManualScene Capture TypeStandard
>> Anonymous
> look
Look does not equate to how noticable the camera is. A little superzoom "looks" a little like a 5D, but it's much less noticable.

>feel
There's more to the feel of the camera than how it fits in the hand, too. I think what Heavyweather is referring to, and what I, too, want, is an overall gestalt description of what it is like to use the camera as a photographic tool, and not how it performs as a computer with a sensor stuck on the front.

>sound
>MP3 of the shutter release sound

Oh, sure, you can hear what it sounds like, but that tells one nothing at all about how loud it is, because the volume of the recording is 100% dependent on the volume setting of the computer speaker.

>You just don't know how to use the camera.
Have you ever seen any of his photographs? To be honest, I doubt that all Nikon cameras have shitty metering, but I don't doubt at all its possible he received one with a faulty meter.

>Enlighten me, what are those important "merits, demerits, and uses of a camera" that they neglect?

Once more, what it is like to shoot photographs with it. That's what I'm talking about. The overall gestalt of the camera in use.
>> Anonymous
And yes, that HAS to be subjective. But so what? Objectivity is idolized to too great a degree, and assumed to exist where it doesn;t. Take some disease: sure, it is objective that a person has some bateria in their body. Two doctors, based on their subjective past experience, might prescribe slightly different dosages or different drugs.

But so what? You trust them, because they went to medical school and know what they are talking about. The same goes for a review of a camera written by a working, professional/artistic photographer: they make good photographs, they know what a camera needs to have and be like. So you trust them.

For instance, this (http://luminous-landscape.com/essays/ND-m8-aa.shtml) somewhat specialized semi-review tells me a hell of a lot more what it is like to use a Leica M8 than the dpreview review.

There's nothing wrong with a site like dpreview, and it is useful to get specifications and relevent technical information, but it's less than half the story for someone who is going to be photographing with the camera.
>> Anonymous
>>53158

that really doesnt tell me anything about the camera.

so what if he mentioned the fact that the penguins werent scared of the shutter sound.

LIKE I SAID:

a website should in NO WAY replace real world demos of the product.

dpreview gives you the info that going to a camera store wont.
>> Anonymous
GET A CANON AND TAKE NORMAL PICTURES.

NOW BEGONE
>> Anonymous
>>53162
Oh.. You're too late.. I got a Canon instead..
>> hay now me Anonymous
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Hi /p/, not the OP of course but I was actually about to make a similar topic. /b/tard, looking to spend $200, picture quality is important, I know what I'm doing but don't want to get too technical/complicated (I'm assuming most digital cameras aren't THAT difficult)

One thing that matters to me, though, that hasn't been mentioned is battery life. My mom has a Fuji FinePix something that takes good pictures but drains batteries like no tomorrow. I have a Kodak EasyShare CX7300 and I fucking hate it, it takes terrible pictures, terrible color depth, just a piece of garbage.

Anyway, I like the OP's pics so I'll read up on the PowerShots, and the other stuff mentioned and the review sites, but anyone got anything they can add for me?

Pic is from my piece of shit EasyShare, it is retarded in handling lighting, it's half-decent in daylight, not even flash salvages anything night.

Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeEASTMAN KODAK COMPANYCamera ModelKODAK EASYSHARE CX7300 DIGITAL CAMERACamera SoftwareVersion 1.0000Maximum Lens Aperturef/4.5Sensing MethodOne-Chip Color AreaFocal Length (35mm Equiv)37 mmImage-Specific Properties:Image OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution230 dpiVertical Resolution230 dpiExposure Time15449/1000000 secF-Numberf/4.5Exposure ProgramNormal ProgramISO Speed Rating140Lens Aperturef/4.5Exposure Bias0 EVMetering ModeCenter Weighted AverageFlashFlash, AutoFocal Length5.90 mmColor Space InformationsRGBImage Width2080Image Height1544Exposure Index140RenderingNormalExposure ModeAutoWhite BalanceAutoScene Capture TypeStandardGain ControlNoneContrastNormalSaturationNormalSharpnessNormalSubject Distance RangeUnknown
>> Anonymous
>>53164
OP here, battery life is one of the things I looked into. This A630 has one of the best battery lives in its class. I've taken about 300 pictures with the camera (with LCD on and flash on most) so far and the original crap batteries are still good. I'll get some NiHM ones tomorrow. Since battery life was a concern, I wanted to get something that takes AA because proprietary shit is expensive.
>> illogical !!z/I+8zVANsa
I personally like my A710IS, just as good as the A6x0 series but with much higher zoom and IS. Only thing is there's no flip screen.
>> Anonymous
>>53175
>>53174

cool, thanks. Can I ask the both of you if you considered the A570 IS? It seems that the main difference between the 630 and that is IS at about $20 less. And between the 710 and that is 4x vs. 6x zoom at about $40 more.
>> illogical !!z/I+8zVANsa
>>53182
It doesn't support the CHDK loader/firmware hack, so it can't do RAW, ect ect (games).
---
If you don't care about RAW, then it's more of personal choice on dark colors and zoom or getting shiny colors and face detection.
>> Anonymous
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OP here with shots from my new A630. C&C for a beginner is welcome.

Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeCanonCamera ModelCanon PowerShot A630Maximum Lens Aperturef/3.5Sensing MethodOne-Chip Color AreaImage-Specific Properties:Horizontal Resolution72 dpiVertical Resolution72 dpiImage Created2007:06:05 15:25:52Exposure Time1/200 secF-Numberf/3.5Lens Aperturef/3.5Exposure Bias0 EVMetering ModeCenter Weighted AverageFlashNo Flash, CompulsoryFocal Length12.56 mmColor Space InformationsRGBImage Width1024Image Height768RenderingNormalExposure ModeAutoWhite BalanceManualScene Capture TypeStandard
>> Anonymous
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Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeCanonCamera ModelCanon PowerShot A630Maximum Lens Aperturef/2.8Sensing MethodOne-Chip Color AreaImage-Specific Properties:Horizontal Resolution72 dpiVertical Resolution72 dpiImage Created2007:06:05 14:59:28Exposure Time1/250 secF-Numberf/5.0Lens Aperturef/5.0Exposure Bias0 EVMetering ModeCenter Weighted AverageFlashNo Flash, CompulsoryFocal Length7.30 mmColor Space InformationsRGBImage Width576Image Height768RenderingNormalExposure ModeAutoWhite BalanceManualScene Capture TypeStandard
>> Anonymous
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Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeCanonCamera ModelCanon PowerShot A630Maximum Lens Aperturef/3.5Sensing MethodOne-Chip Color AreaImage-Specific Properties:Horizontal Resolution72 dpiVertical Resolution72 dpiImage Created2007:06:05 16:03:06Exposure Time1/60 secF-Numberf/3.5Lens Aperturef/3.5Exposure Bias0 EVMetering ModeCenter Weighted AverageFlashFlash, CompulsoryFocal Length17.34 mmColor Space InformationsRGBImage Width576Image Height768RenderingNormalExposure ModeAutoWhite BalanceManualScene Capture TypeStandard
>> Q
Cool points for resizing.
>> Anonymous
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Okay, I'm done. Once again, comments and criticism would be appreciated.

Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeCanonCamera ModelCanon PowerShot A630Maximum Lens Aperturef/3.5Sensing MethodOne-Chip Color AreaImage-Specific Properties:Horizontal Resolution72 dpiVertical Resolution72 dpiImage Created2007:06:05 15:20:07Exposure Time1/125 secF-Numberf/6.3Lens Aperturef/6.3Exposure Bias0 EVMetering ModeCenter Weighted AverageFlashNo Flash, CompulsoryFocal Length21.71 mmColor Space InformationsRGBImage Width1024Image Height768RenderingNormalExposure ModeAutoWhite BalanceManualScene Capture TypeStandard
>> Anonymous
>>53161
What I am saying, and what I think Heavyweather is saying, is that a camera review's use decreases dramatically if it does not include a real-world demo and a description of the results.
>> elf_man
>>53302
I kind of like this, just think it needs more of a focus.
This is all in auto, if anything put it in Program. You can keep everything else set on auto if you want, but you at least get exposure compensation that way.
>> Anonymous
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>>53360
Thanks, Actually I took almost all of them in manual or one of the two priorities. I'm still not exactly sure what I'm doing with everything though so I just tried changing different settings.

Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeCanonCamera ModelCanon PowerShot A630Maximum Lens Aperturef/2.8Sensing MethodOne-Chip Color AreaImage-Specific Properties:Horizontal Resolution72 dpiVertical Resolution72 dpiImage Created2007:06:05 16:17:27Exposure Time1/80 secF-Numberf/8.0Lens Aperturef/8.0Exposure Bias0 EVMetering ModeCenter Weighted AverageFlashNo Flash, CompulsoryFocal Length7.30 mmColor Space InformationsRGBImage Width1024Image Height767RenderingNormalExposure ModeAutoWhite BalanceManualScene Capture TypeStandard
>> elf_man
>>53361
Oh, my bad, the exif is reporting it as auto.