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Anonymous
Dear /p/
I hate to post yet another "hay guyz what camera should I get" thread, but I need some feedback. Heres what I've narrowed it down to:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare_post.asp?method=sidebyside&cameras=canon_eos30d%2Ccanon_
eos350d%2Ccanon_eos400d%2Cnikon_d80%2Cnikon_d40%2Cnikon_d40x&camuser=nikon_d40&show=all
I've got 3 cameras by Canon, and their 3 Nikon counterparts. I've figured out I can't really decide on what price range I'm willing to work with, for now, so help me decide: Nikon or Canon. Pros/Cons of each brand, little nuances most people don't notice till they own one, etc. Things that could help me decide which brand to go with..

In exchange, I give you a so-so pic I took this January at the Biltmore Estate, in Asheville, NC with my current camera.
EXIF data available. Clickhereto show/hide.
Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeFUJIFILMCamera ModelFinePix S5100Camera SoftwareDigital Camera FinePix S5100 Ver1.00Maximum Lens Aperturef/2.8Sensing MethodOne-Chip Color AreaMaker Note Version0130Image-Specific Properties:Image OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution72 dpiVertical Resolution72 dpiImage Created2007:01:19 10:43:09Exposure Time1/480 secF-Numberf/5.0Exposure ProgramNormal ProgramISO Speed Rating64Lens Aperturef/4.9Brightness9.4 EVExposure Bias0 EVMetering ModePatternLight SourceUnknownFlashNo Flash, CompulsoryFocal Length5.70 mmColor Space InformationsRGBImage Width2272Image Height1704RenderingCustomExposure ModeAutoWhite BalanceAutoScene Capture TypeStandardSharpnessNormalSubject Distance RangeUnknownSharpnessNormalWhite BalanceAutoChroma SaturationUnknownFlash ModeOffMacro ModeOffFocus ModeAutoSlow Synchro ModeOffPicture ModeAutoContinuous/Bracketing ModeOffBlur StatusOKFocus StatusOKAuto Exposure StatusOK
>> Anonymous
dagblasted broke-ass link.
The models are the Canon EOS 30D, EOS 350D Digital Rebel XT, EOS 400D Digital Rebel XTi, and teh Nikon D80, D40, and D40x.
>> Anonymous
you just need to copy and paste the 2 parts of the link manually. anyway, what kind of cameras have you used before?
>> Anonymous
I have a Fuji S5100 right now, but I've had it over 3 years.. time to move up, I think.. The more I look at those 6 models, the more I think I'll need to do at least the D40 or the Rebel XTi. I don't think I'll be happy with the XT or the D40x... I can make the feature decision on my own, but then I have to chose between the two brands. I'd like to be as informed as I can be about why one would chose one brand over the other..
>> Anonymous
Also:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare_post.asp?method=sidebyside&cameras=
canon_eos30d%2Cnikon_d80%2Ccanon_eos400d%2Cnikon_d40%2Ccanon_eos350d%2Cnikon
_d40x&show=all
>> Anonymous
>>41700
i ask about what youve used because if youve been using a nikon, then nikon would probably be a better choice, and vice versa. however, since you say youve been using a fuji finepix, that is out of consideration. the best thing to do would be to flip a coin, probably. canons show they are a bit better with noise reduction at higher ISOs from what ive read. also, you might take into consideration if you already have some memory cards.
for me, i had already been using a nikon, had nikon lenses, and had SD cards, so i choose the D80. other than that, its just a matter if what you like more. go to the store and hold both and move around in the menus and see which you like more. in the end, youll be happier with the camera that feels better in your hands and the camera whose menus you like more than any other insignificant differences there are between them.
>> Anonymous
>>41703
Hmm. Yeah either way, I'm going to have to purchase new memory. What you said about ISO's is helpful. Better noise reduction would be good.. Looks like I'm going to Wolf Camera tomorrow to put my hands on a few of these models.. It probably WILL come down to which feels better in my hands, then.. Now to decide which of the 3 tiers best suits my needs..
>> Anonymous
>>41705
all three tiers of cameras are very usable. its just a matter of how much you are willing to spend. just remember that with the D40/x you can only AF with AF-S/AF-I lenses. that shouldnt be much of a problem though since you dont already have any lenses. do keep it in mind though in case you are looking at lenses right now.
>> Anonymous
OP here.
I've been reading and comparing and cross-referencing, and I've narrowed it down to the Nikon D80 or D40x. Still going to try to go look at them in a store tomorrow. As far as how much I want to spend, I know it's gonna be alot. Ritz was running a special back at Christmas on the D80 body with a 18-54mm lens and a 28-300mm lens, all together for $1199 (killer deal, that was). I'll want a macro lens right away for sure on top of that. So yeah it's gonna be a bundle. But I have the money. I'm leaning towards the D80 at this point. It looks like the extra features are worth the extra money.
Thanks for all the input.
>> Anonymous
>>41711
the D80 will give you full use with a wider gamut of lenses, and also a brighter viewfinder.

h1photo has the best price for a D80 body atm. best price for a company that actually has a good rep that is. its actually about $15 more expensive now than it was a few days ago though at $899.95. i just ordered mine on friday and it was $911 shipped 3day.
>> Anonymous
I feel like being a rogue and recommending the Pentax K100. People often overlook dSLRs that aren't made by either canon or nikon, and it's quite unfortunate, because there are other great cameras out there, much like this one, or some in Olympus's evolt line, etc.

I love the k100. Works great for what i use it. For the price, i think it's a good deal. Sure, it has some shortcomings, like white balance indoors being screwed up, and the AF being a tad on the slow side, but the anti-shake feature totally makes up for it i think. It is compatible with ANY K mount lens (okay, there are a few exceptions :P). Anti-shake on my SMC-Pentax 28mm prime from the 70s is fantastic. However, there is a drawback, being that it is less than intuitive to shoot with older glass.

Sure, this comes from left field, but hey, i thought i'd chime in.
>> Anonymous
>>41712
Awesome. Thanks for the tip. I'm hoping to find another package deal like Ritz was running, with the two lenses, but I'm not holding my breath. :p

>>41716
I looked at some of the other brands before I started this thread, actually, but the more I looked around, the more it seemed a better idea for my to stick with a more widely used brand/model, mostly due to my limited experience.
>> Anonymous
>>41695
>>41695
>>41695

Have a color version of this photo?
>> Liska !!LIVFOETqL8j
>>41711

I'm not sure if it's still being made, or if it would even work on your digital camera (I have a fillm) but the 28-80 lens that I got with my Nikon N80 actually came with a macro setting on it, so it can be used for both types of photography. It was the most pleasant surprise ever, because it actually takes great photos! (default lens on my camera now). They never advertised the macro feature, but you might want to keep an eye out for that sort of multiple-use lens while you're shopping. It could come in handy.
>> ac
>>41745
Filmcentric lenses should work on digital Nikons (with a crop factor), just not the other way around.
>> Anonymous
>>41744
Nope, sorry. I've been shooting everything in b&w only for the last few months.. I'm going to go back to using RAW mode and converting to b&w later, though I think.. I <3 B&W
>>41745
That is some extremely useful information, actually.. Might end up sparing me an extra couple of hundred dollars that way :D Thanks!
>> Liska !!LIVFOETqL8j
>>41749

Okay, just wondering. I never switched to digital, old school here, but I swear that lens has been so much of a god send it isn't even funny, because I have more range with it. I love it even better than the actual macro lens i've got
>> ac
>>41755
Not entirely sure, but my guess is that she's talking about what Nikon used as their kit lens for film cameras. Which is to say, if you're dropping a couple of hundred bucks on it, you're getting way, way overcharged. As in, you should be able to find one for under $50 that comes with a Nikon film camera body as well.

(But I'm not a Nikon guy, so I could be wrong)
>> Liska !!LIVFOETqL8j
>>41770

Most Nikon camera kits should come with a lens. I dunno about the digital side, but the film side does. That was exactly what i am saying, too, but if he can find an individual multiple use lens, that doesnt' come with his camera, that might make sense too. Yeah, my little 28-80 came with the camera and i thought it completely useless for years. Then i actually looked at the lens, switched modes and it turned out to be awesome. Little details like that aren't normally noticed, but can make a HUGE difference.

For example, in terms of nikon, i've got a 7-210 and a 200-500. Both are zoom, but i find i dont' really need my 200-500 unless i'm shooting a safari or something. The 70-210 nikkor makes more sense, and i use it more often than the bigger one.
>> Anonymous
>>41770
Well I was referring to the cost of a Nikon macro lens.. I haven't priced any kind of macro lenses yet, so I dunno what they cost. I was just assuming the worst, so I can be pleasantly suprised later. :p
>>41744
I can upload some of my other ones from the Biltmore Estate if you want to see them, but they're all B&W and outdoors (no photography allowed inside).
>> Anonymous
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micro nikkors are pretty costly, but you can get one of the zoom macro nikkors like Liska was referring to for a really decent price. the macro isnt as good as a dedicated macro lens of course, but they are still quite decent.

attached is a picture i took with a 35-105 zoom macro nikkor on macro setting on a film nikon. ive posted it before, but its just an example of a fairly cheap dual purpose lens. ignore the poor scan quality.

Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeEastman Kodak CompanyCamera ModelKodak CLAS Digital Film Scanner / HR200Camera SoftwareAdobe Photoshop CS2 WindowsImage-Specific Properties:Image OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution256 dpiVertical Resolution256 dpiImage Created2007:03:18 20:07:11Color Space InformationsRGBImage Width1536Image Height1024RenderingCustom
>> Anonymous
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>>41789
same lens, etc. bad picture yes, but thats not the point of this picture.

Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeEastman Kodak CompanyCamera ModelKodak CLAS Digital Film Scanner / HR200Camera SoftwareKodak Digital Central Lab SystemImage-Specific Properties:Image OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution256 dpiVertical Resolution256 dpiImage Created2007:03:12 10:38:20Color Space InformationsRGBImage Width1536Image Height1024RenderingCustom
>> Anonymous
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OP here
I think I'd rather have a dedicated true macro lens. I can't think of a good reason really NOT to.
Took this pic with my S5100 in macro mode.

Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeFUJIFILMCamera ModelFinePix S5100Camera SoftwareDigital Camera FinePix S5100 Ver1.00Maximum Lens Aperturef/2.8Sensing MethodOne-Chip Color AreaMaker Note Version0130Image-Specific Properties:Image OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution72 dpiVertical Resolution72 dpiImage Created2006:12:16 09:01:58Exposure Time1/80 secF-Numberf/3.1Exposure ProgramManualISO Speed Rating100Lens Aperturef/3.1Brightness4.2 EVExposure Bias0 EVMetering ModePatternLight SourceUnknownFlashNo Flash, CompulsoryFocal Length57.00 mmColor Space InformationsRGBImage Width2272Image Height1704RenderingCustomExposure ModeManualWhite BalanceManualScene Capture TypeStandardSharpnessNormalSubject Distance RangeUnknownSharpnessNormalWhite BalanceAutoChroma SaturationUnknownFlash ModeOffMacro ModeOnFocus ModeAutoSlow Synchro ModeOffPicture ModeManual ExposureContinuous/Bracketing ModeOffBlur StatusBlur WarningFocus StatusOKAuto Exposure StatusOK
>> Anonymous
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And this one as well

Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeFUJIFILMCamera ModelFinePix S5100Camera SoftwareDigital Camera FinePix S5100 Ver1.00Maximum Lens Aperturef/2.8Sensing MethodOne-Chip Color AreaMaker Note Version0130Image-Specific Properties:Image OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution72 dpiVertical Resolution72 dpiImage Created2006:11:30 16:28:11Exposure Time1/110 secF-Numberf/2.8Exposure ProgramNormal ProgramISO Speed Rating100Lens Aperturef/2.8Brightness4.9 EVExposure Bias0 EVMetering ModePatternLight SourceUnknownFlashNo Flash, CompulsoryFocal Length5.70 mmColor Space InformationsRGBImage Width2272Image Height1704RenderingCustomExposure ModeAutoWhite BalanceAutoScene Capture TypeStandardSharpnessNormalSubject Distance RangeUnknownSharpnessNormalWhite BalanceAutoChroma SaturationUnknownFlash ModeOffMacro ModeOnFocus ModeAutoSlow Synchro ModeOffPicture ModeAutoContinuous/Bracketing ModeOffBlur StatusOKFocus StatusOKAuto Exposure StatusOK
>> Anonymous
>>41795
because changing lenses all the time gets old and isnt always an option.
>> Anonymous
>>41800
Eh. I'm patient. If it benefits me enough, I can put up with it. And I'm pretty sure it will. I love taking macro shots.
>> Liska !!LIVFOETqL8j
>>41795

You know, i thought the same thing, but fact of the matter is i just have more range and composition options with the 28-80 and i get pretty much the same effect, is all. Changing lenses isn't that much of a problem for me. Just personal preference.
>> Anonymous
>>41735

That makes sense, but just keep in mind, with pentax, you get a HUGE array of lenses at your disposal through the K mount. Everything from the first SMC-pentax from 1972 all the way up to the k100 kit lens. Nikons can do it too, to some extent, but as I saw someone say once, "The famed "backwards compatible" Nikon SLR system has enough incompatibilities and "buts" to fill an entire wall chart."

Then again, having a super wide assortment of glass like that isn't too important at this point, since it is your first dSLR.

Like someone said earlier, you can't go wrong with either nikon or canon.
>> Anonymous
>>41814
Although it's worth noting that the limitations in Nikon DSLRs are more due to marketing and product lines than because of anything technical. D2's can meter with virtually every F-mount lens.
>> Anonymous
yeah, theres a lot of buts and ifs, but it doesnt mean the lens won't mount. most of the caveats are related to what modes the lens will work in and if itll meter with the fancy 3d color matrix metering mode or not.

there are two series of lenses that wont work at all which are:
lenses made for the F3AF which are old school lenses with the AF motor in the lens instead of the camera body wont work. and no IX lenses which were made for the pronea series.
>> Anonymous
I'm probably only going to have 3 lenses anyway, at least for the foreseeable future: a 18-55mm-ish lens and 75-300mm lens (the two that came with that package deal i mentioned), and a macro.. I might get a super telephoto zoom later but I doubt it. I think that setup alone will keep me happy for a LONG time
>> Anonymous
>>41821
id recommend getting one of the fast normal primes too. 50mm f/1.4 or f/1.8 are nice, but with the crop factor its like a mild telephoto. theres also the 35mm f/2. or if you dont mind no AF, theres the 35mm f/1.4 AIS
>> Anonymous
>>41822
I need to read more up on selecting lenses. Most of that post was greek. I understand f-stop, etc basically, but not enough in this context.. These are the kinds of things I'm greatful for you people bring to my attention, so I can fill the gaps in my knowlege..
>> Anonymous
>>41824
Nikon's lens designations are like some sort of nazi code. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F_mount is a pretty good reference to figure out what the various letters mean.

nikon DSLRs have a 1.5x crop factor meaning that to get the "actual" (read: 35mm equivalent) focal distance for a lens made for 35mm but used on digital, multiply by 1.5. A 50mm on a 35mm becomes equivalent to a 75mm on a nikon dslr, etc.

a 50mm is considered a normal lens as its field of view is close to what a human eye sees. 75mm (what it would be) is a narrower field of view and becomes more like a telephoto.

fstop is the amount of light that gets into the lens of course, so the more light you can get into the camera, the shorter your exposure can be, hence "faster" lens.
>> Anonymous
>>41825
Hooray for the Cliff Notes version. That was quite helpful. I understood the multiplier thing, but not the application of it. Bingo, the light comes on. I just printed off a map to the local Wolf Camera.. gonna go get some hands-on time with the Nikon D80 when I get off of work in about an hour. w00t
>> Anonymous
>>41825
If you want it done in 3 lenses, with consumer-grade glass, the best I can come up with is:
18-70mm
70-300VR
60mm f/2.8 (for macro)

That's around ~$1000 worth of glass, and should cover most shooting situations. Low light might be a problem, but you can add a flash and/or a fast 50mm prime to solve that.
>> Anonymous
>>41829
Swap out that 70-300VR for an 80-200 f/2.8. You'd be better off in the long run. Trust me. But then again, once you go f/2.8, you never want to look back, going for better and more expensive glass.

A little sidenote, I was shooting with a Nikon D80 when all my amateur photogs that I go outing with was shooting Canon 400Ds and 20D, even then, when they had my D80 in hand, and playing with it a bit, some made the decision to go Nikon right there and then.
>> Anonymous
while we're on the subject of camera equipment, what do you people think about the SB600/SB800? i was thinking of getting 1 or 2. probably the SB600 since its cheaper and the only real draw of the SB800 is it can commander, but i have a D80, so it doesnt really matter. this would be my first foray into flash photography too.
</hijack>
>> Anonymous
I'd condone getting two Speedlights for Nikon's own Wireless CLS system, but try to save up and get two SB800's though. But if getting one SB800 prevents you from getting two SB600, then by all means.

To me, the extra juice the SB800 pumps out is worth it.
>> Anonymous
OP here..
Well I got my hands on a D80 at the camera store and I love it.. Definitely what I want.
They have package deal on the D80 body and a 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 G ED-IF AF-S VR DX Zoom-Nikkor lens for $1300, so if I've learned correctly, that's an equivalent 27-300mm lens in 35mm format. This is the lens:
http://www.nikonusa.com/template.php?cat=1&grp=5&productNr=2159
That gives me all the zoom I'll need (my Fuji S5100 zooms to 300mm and that's fine). So that leaves just a lens for Macro, but the one I want is a little under $600, so I'll get that probably separate, a little later. Hooray! ^_^
>> Anonymous
>>41881
That's a pretty killer price for the 18-200. When it was in short supply a few months ago, some places were selling the it for $800. It's also supposedly pretty good at close focusing, so you could do less demanding macro-style work with it in a pinch.

Speaking of Speedlights, I've got an SB-600, and it's sufficient for me. I've never really found the amount of light lacking, but then I don't shoot in any particularly low-light conditions. A pair of SB-800's would open up interesting creative possibilities though, if you're into that kind of thing.
>> Anonymous
>>41897
uh, that lens still goes for around $800 new. so yeah, ownage deal. is it a used package or something? or is it all factory new?
>> Anonymous
>>41899
Oh, I didn't know. I was interested back when I had money; now I don't, so I haven't checked prices. I should have said some people were selling them for over $1000 on eBay. Not many buyers, but I think a few people did bite.
>> Anonymous
>>41897
>>41899
>>41907
I *think* the guy said *that* lens had been on perpetual backorder for like 6 months.. But he indicated that it was about a $500 lens.. $900 for the body, $400 for the lens = $1300 package, which according to the pricing he showed me, would save me $100 on the lens. That's all I know.
That's some SERIOUSLY inflated pricing you guys were seeing..
>> Anonymous
>>41881
Where are you buying this? Is it U.S. Dollars? B&H has the camera and the lens for $1,600 and they're usually among the cheapest anywhere.
>> Anonymous
>>41982
Wolf Camera And Video. Yeah, that's the price in $USD..