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Teus !QbSstcPD6U
last sunday I had a Leica in my hands for the first time, and put a roll through it. Leica MP with 35mm f/1.4 and 50mm f/2.

roll of TMAX400 souped in HC-110 B shot in and around the local shop.

I'm delighted... a fully mechanical camera, very smooth, great rangefinder, awesome sharpness and creamy backgrounds. I'm buying myself an M6 soon!
>> Teus !QbSstcPD6U
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>> Teus !QbSstcPD6U
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>> Butterfly !xlgRMYva6s
I would buy a book on how to take acceptable photographs first.
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
Every once in a while, I say to myself "You know, maybe I could get myself a Leica some day..."

Then I look up the price of a Leica M7 without a lens and compare it to the price of a Canon 5D and a nice L zoom to go with it and just can't bring myself to even consider it in any vaguely serious fashion.
>> Blackadder !!bSWRwu/NqzQ
>>101579

Look at it this way: isn't it comforting to see that a Leica won't "make good pictures" just because it's a Leica?

Great if you've a specific use in mind and the money to blow on it, but for most people the money could be better spent even within their photography hobby.
>> Anonymous
tbh Leicas are for people who already have a decent camera and lens setup (I'm talking some serious pro glass + bodies) with extra money kicking around. And rich people who buy into the prestige and exclusivity thing. But I still want one, mainly because of the f/1.0 nocti.
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>101584
>f/1.0 nocti.
Fapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfap
>> Teus !QbSstcPD6U
>>101579
5D doesn't give you the discretion of a Leica.
the 5D might shoot faster, be digital, resolve more detail etc, but is more intrusive.

the young dude at my camera shop is pretty talented, he shoots all his weddings with Leicas. he showed me pretty sharp photos, handheld at 1/2 and 1sec shutters.

>>already have a decent camera and lens setup
yeah, I got that alright. don't know if I'll use my film SLR's a lot once I got one, I'll see. will probably use it when I want to use more affordable lenses

>>And rich people who buy into the prestige and exclusivity thing
Leica is a lot about prestige, I know, but it was the weapon of choice for a LOT of photographers like Winogrand and HCB.
not only theyre great, Leica has proven their M's can literally last a lifetime
>> Anonymous
Anyone who buys a new Leica is an idiot.

Anyone who says that Leicas are only for the rich is also an idiot. This is why secondhand cameras exist, fellows.
>> Anonymous
>>101590
Yeah. Leica M's are perfect for almost any kind of photography, but many people buy them for the same reason people buy bottom of the line BMWs and Mercs...
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>101588
Yeah, I totally understand the advantages of a Leica. It's just that, for me, they don't come close to justifying the price. Especially if I want an M8, which I do, because I'm a digitard.

Comparison:

M8: $5500
Noctilux (which is the main reason I would want a Leica): $5500
= $1100

Vs.
EOS 5D: $2200
EOS 5D (Backup): $2200
EF 70-200 f/2.8L IS USM: $1600
EF 50mm f/1.2L USM: $1250
EF 16-35 f/2.8L USM: $1310
EF 24-70 f/2.8L USM: $1060
TS-E 45mm f/2.8: $1099 (why not?)
= $10719
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>101590
Used Leicas aren't really that much cheaper. Too damn many collectors out there.
>> Anonymous
>>101598
Personally I'd throw in a 85mm f/1.2 L in there. Closest thing to a nocti in terms of bokeh...
>> des
ac, there's always the voigtlanders~
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>101617
Eh. If I wanted a rangefinder that's not a Leica, I can just use my Canonet.
>> Blackadder !!bSWRwu/NqzQ
Leicas....pffft. We all know what you really want is a Nikkei DLN 9000A. It's got a COLOUR VIEWFINDER! Astonishing.
>> Teus !QbSstcPD6U
>>101598
don't buy an M8 if you know tech, and aren't a collector, unless you really have a LOT of money to spend. its pretty noisy and future models will improve a lot

in 5-10 years it will be hopelessly outdated and useless. high-end DSLR's cost a lot, but those are almost always used to make money. I can't imagine a lot of people using the M8 for professional purpose.
>> Anonymous
>>101618
Voigtlaender makes a lot of M-mount lenses, some really fantastic crazy ones too.
35mm f1.2 comes to mind
>> Anonymous
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>>101603
I haven't shot with a Leica (and a Noctilux, obviously), but from the images on the internets the Noctilux seems to have this swirling kind of bokeh, when lights are blurred into circles in the center and into ellipses near the edge of the frame. In this case, I'd recommend a 85/1.5 Helios-40 (or maybe a Biotar 75/1.5, from which that Helios was mostly copied) - it has a very similar bokeh irregularity.

Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeSEIKO EPSON CORP.Camera ModelR-D1sCamera SoftwareSILKYPIX(R) Developer Studio Version 3.0.5.4Image-Specific Properties:Image OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution300 dpiVertical Resolution300 dpiImage Created2007:03:07 23:55:42Exposure Time1/169 secExposure ProgramAperture PriorityISO Speed Rating400Exposure Bias0 EVMetering ModeCenter Weighted AverageLight SourceUnknownFlashNo Flash FunctionColor Space InformationsRGBImage Width640Image Height426RenderingCustomExposure ModeAutoScene Capture TypeStandard
>> Anonymous
i fapped
>> Anonymous
>>101599
User condition M3 SS - $850-1000
Jupiter 8 50/2 - $20-50
LTM/M adapter - $20-100

That wasn't so hard, now was it. Upgrade Russian lens to a Canon if you have a little more cash, or an actual Leica lens if you feel like it.

>>101620
But there are a lot of pros using them. Google around, or look at some M8 forums.
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>101886
So yeah, almost $1000, minimum, for their bottom-of-the-line film camera without so much as an internal light meter.

It makes sense if you shoot in a style that a Leica is good for (e.g., street photography, where you want to keep somewhat under the radar) and you're skilled enough to judge exposure by eye, but I suck for manually exposing anything other than sunny-16 on wide-latitude film, and that $1000 would buy me a really sweet lens for my digital SLR.
>> Anonymous
>>101886
You're overpricing the M3. Or maybe not. I never looked into prices on those, but I've seen M2s go for a couple hundred bucks fairly often when someone throws up a no reserve auction for one on E-Bay and loses bigtime. I imagine the M3 might go for some more, since it's the first M, but the M2's framelines are better for most types of photography anyway.

I've thought about catching one myself that way; the only reason I haven't is because I don't own a credit card and so don't have an E-Bay account, and I'm not sure if I want to take out a card to get three for four pieces of camera equipment.

And as for metering, AC, just use your Powershot like you've said you do with other meterless cameras you own.
>> Anonymous
>>101925

You don't need a credit card for paypal.
>> Anonymous
Just get a voigtlander
>> Anonymous
>>101926
You don't? I thought you did.

How do you get money into it, then?

And don't you need a credit card anyway to register for E-Bay? I tried doing so once and planned to pay with money order or something, but it wouldn't let me even register without a credit card number.
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>101925
>And as for metering, AC, just use your Powershot like you've said you do with other meterless cameras you own.
I'm willing to deal with that inconvenience for my TLR, since it's inconvenient to use no matter what. But one of the main reasons people buy a Leica is that they're supposedly a dream to use. If I have to take a picture with another camera before I can take a picture with my Leica, that good-to-useness evaporates in a puff of annoyingness.
>> Anonymous
>>101934
Not if you just meter the general light when you first step out the door and go. Halve the shutter speed or open up a stop if you're shooting something in the shadows. Won't be 100% accurate, but it'll be close enough, especially for black and white negatives.
>> Anonymous
>>101933
CC is needed only if you want to sell stuff on ebay, if you're buying you can pay by any mean the seller agrees on.

Actally, I think you can even use paypal to pay auction fees now, so selling without CC should be doable.
>> Teus !QbSstcPD6U
with some training you can take a few readings with a light meter when you start shooting, then go without it. after a while you can just drop the light meter if you're accustomed to the light

>>101937
in hard sunlight, shadow areas are a +- 2stop difference.
>> Anonymous
>>101956
Really? Where do you live? Probably about 60-70% of the time, I find the shadows here (35.772 N) meter about 1- 1 1/3 stops darker than sunlight. Sometimes more, but usually that.
>> Anonymous
>>101925

I was probably pretty off with the pricing (it was late and I was lazy), but I'm pretty sure it's in the near 1000 range for something that works right out of the parcel off eBay. You'd probably get a better deal from Rangefinderforum or another camera forum, and an even better deal if you get lucky at a local camera store, flea market, or estate sale. eBay tends to be pretty expensive if you stick to trustworthy sellers.

>>101901
It's really not as hard to judge exposure as it first seems. With 400 speed color print or B/W film these days, you can mess up almost 3 stops and still get something vaguely usable. With the help of a reading from a P&S every so often (no need to take a shot, just hold down the shutter release halfway), it's pretty hard to completely screw up a shot.

The M3's in no way Leica's bottom of the line camera, either. All M cameras have been the top of their class when they were made (well, apart from the split MP and M7 range today, and maybe some foolery with the M4-2 and M5) Just because it lacks some features doesn't make it less usable - it just has different framelines which you may or may not like compared to the M2/M4, and has a slightly different film loading system (it was improved in the M4). It's just as tough and finely crafted as any other Leica, if not tougher, and those are really the selling points of an M body.
>> Teus !QbSstcPD6U
>>102019
>>Really? Where do you live? Probably about 60-70% of the time, I find the shadows here (35.772 N) meter about 1- 1 1/3 stops darker than sunlight. Sometimes more, but usually that.
last time I shot film on a manual camera was in Crete/Greece, in the month of June :)

it can go from 0,5 to 2 stops, depending on location/season/time alright
>> Anonymous
>>102144
>>102019

someone explain this to me. why would latitude (or time of the year) have an effect on shadow density?
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>102182
The answer to the latitude part is inherent in the definition of exposure latitude.

The answer to the time-of-year part has to do with the position of the sun and the conditions of the sky.

For example, it's winter here in Buffalo, so there were pretty much no shadows at all yesterday. The overcast sky was basically a huge softbox. Would have been fantastic for portrait photography, so of course I was out trying to do landscapes.
>> Anonymous
>>102190

i was referring to the latitude in 102019's post.

and i don't think they were referring to cloud cover, so how does the sun's position affect shadow density? i think i just figured it out, though. the longer the shadow, the more square inches that are exposed to skylight.
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>102195
Yeah, I figured that out a few moments after hitting submit, but decided to try to bluff my way through rather than deleting it.