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Anonymous
Hey /p/. Just a quick question. Why don't camera companies make quality metal cameras anymore? Looking at my desk, all of my old cameras are solid metal construction, from my entry level Minolta SRT-201, to some silly old off brand rangefinder. Every range of cameras it seems was made of medal, unless it was made of bakelite, which wasnt too common.

I'm not trolling here, I'm just curious as to why everything I see today that falls into the same range as these cameras is plasticky and, well, flimsy feeling. Even some nicer cameras, like the nikon d40, or the canon xti, which i think would be in the same range as the SRT201, feel kind of light and fragile, when compared to my solid and worn minolta. Is it just not economically viable for companies to use metal through their lines other than the pro stuff now? I wish there'd be some cameras with what you could call 'classic' design aesthetic, but with modern functionality. Even Leica is going more plastic these days, as evidenced by the digilux 3. Am i crazy to want a camera that'll do what a modern dSLR can but in the body of an old workhorse like a Canon F, or Pentax KX, minolta SRT, nikon F, or what have you?

Also, i'm sleepy and on meds right now, so if this all soundsl ike crazy rambling, it probably is.
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>> Anonymous
well, you could get a Hasselblad 503CW - there are digital backs available.

Actually looks like there's a model where digital is standard now, 503CWD

These are expensive as fuck, of course. I wonder if you can use hasselblad backs on the Kiev 80?
>> Anonymous
Also check out the Hasselblad H series, although they are a little too bulky for my taste.

But yeah, Hasselblad is the only manufacturer I can think of off the top of my head that is doing this; the flimsiness problem is the primary reason I still shoot on film, in fact
>> Anonymous
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>>42171

Not just the cameras but the lenses are plastic and very loose-feeling too.

ITT, luddites.

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>> Anonymous
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>>42177

I'm sure another reason is the fact that Hasselblad, for all of the great reasons to have one, is bloody expensive.

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>> Anonymous
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>>42175
>>42177

I'd love a Hasselblad. But until i become rich, I'd rather find an old camera for my MF needs.

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>> Anonymous
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>>42178
>> Anonymous
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>>42171
Funny you mention the Digilux 3. It's one of the only dSLRs I know of that has manual shutter speed and aperture settings like on a camera thirty years ago. Knob and ring, full tactile satisfaction. The other camera is the panasonic lumix DMC L1, but that doesn't really count since it is basically a rebranded Digilux 3.

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>> des
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>>42171
There's a couple arguements I've heard over the years, they're probably both correct. They were applied to AF wonders rather than DSLRs but the plastic-y complaints are the same and the reasons make even more sense than ever.
1. Cost to build
It's a lot cheaper to make plastic bodies than metal. Metal costs more, is harder to form and work with and (argueable) requires more hands-on construction.
2. Plastic protect the innards
Metal will hold up against things weaker than it but will crimp and smash against things stronger. Plastic bends against most normal abuse without blinking. I've got the dings in the plates and prism and shoes on my old bodies to vouch for that one.
If you're lamenting about fit and finish, I'll agree but also say that if you're looking for good fit and finish, you're going to have to do better than the D40. The middle-to-high end AF film and DSLRs feel well-built and have reasonable heft. The F90 is more than adequate in this regard. My main beef with the D70 is the laughable viewfinder, its feel is fine.
<-- this thing's viewfinder is better.

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>> double post lol des
>>'classic' design aesthetic, but with modern functionality.

I'd kill for an FE-2d. FM-3aD? whatever.
>> Anonymous
>you're going to have to do better than the D40.

See, thats the thing though. Where they used to make an entire range solid (think D40 built similarly to D2Xs with less toots and whistles), now they only make the more expensive stuff with the same integrity as cameras once had. Not to say that it being plastic makes it a bad camera, no, but it certainly feels like it is missing something, perhaps weight, or solidity.
>> Anonymous
>>42192

Well, that's why those cameras are 'entry-level'. The big boys use the better toys, or something like that.
>> des
If you're really pining for that metal, vintage-feel in a newer camera there's only a couple choices I know of off-hand:
the FM3a, which is $lolwut because of the limited run and high interest by oldternet nikonians
the Bessaflex TM, which is a modern M42 camera and is actually pretty nice and can be had for a reasonable price

They're both digital once you get a good slide scanner. Either + a Coolscan IV is cheaper than a D200. :P
>> Anonymous
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Real men use view cameras.

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>> Max Archer !Pm84fAHH6M
>>42197
Lol, shit Cambo 4x5. Get it out. Mine was a nicer Cambo, at least, sold it off in November.

Real men shoot 8x10.
>> ac
>>42199
Pfft. If you're not lugging 20x24 wet glass plates everywhere you go, you might as well be using a Kodak Fun Saver.
>> Anonymous
>>42202
You repeated this same "argument" at least 4 times already on /p/. Don't you have any better, really?
>> ac
>>42206
No. No I do not.
>> Anonymous
>>42202
Glass plates? You fucking girl. This passing fad for making "negatives" will soon blow over, and it'll just be us real men left, using brass plates of silver iodide as God intended.
>> Anonymous
>>42211
That's sad then, because you seem like a reasonable guy most of the time. Yet with these, you come out as a bitter pimply-faced digitard.
>> ac
>>42226
You realize I was making a joke and not an actual argument, right?

The one guy made a joke about how real men used view cameras, someone followed up with real men use *8x10* view cameras, so I took it to the next step up.>>42218then carried it to its logical conclusion, so at least *someone* got it. There wasn't any *actual* argument here, as far as I can tell. Other than, you know, this one.
>> slim !yE5LOsLjxQ
you're all a bunch of bickering sissies. everyone who's anyone knows that any photo-taking process more convenient than burning images into an inch-thick slab of granite by holding it in place until the light reflecting off of your chosen subject discolors and erodes the stone is flat-out cheating. there's basically no difference between digital photography, film photography and drawing with crayons. now if you'll excuse me i have to go back to the quarry to search for materials for my upcoming shoot. it should be ready in about 1,300 years.
>> des
>>42218
I lol'd
>> Anonymous
i chip away at a slab of marble with my teeth to take my pictures.
>> elf_man
Bah! Sheer force of will, etched onto the face of the universe.
>> Anonymous
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Id kill for a digital K1000
>> Anonymous
>>42275
sbig.com, not just for astronomy, but you'll have to carry an external power supply & laptop. on the bright side equivalent ISO of around 50000 available
>> Anonymous
>>42238
madness...
>> Anonymous
>>42302
sparta...
>> Anonymous
>>42275
I used one a month or two ago, not expecting that getting the film properly loaded would take a degree of finesse... good times.
>> Anonymous
>>42275

You can get these for a dime a dozen.
>> ac
>>42325
Note 'digital'
>> Anonymous
TO OP. I think you're looking at the wrong cameras. even my Canon G7 has a very nice metal body and solid feel. I have to admit though, the vast majority of cameras i have encountered in recent history have had a horribly plastic feel. Part of my decision to purchase the G7 as my carry-in-the-car compact was because of its solid construction and sturdy feel. I miss my old SLRs =(
>> Anonymous
OP ..

Canon 1D's have full metal bodies despite looking like plastic.

I've held a colleague's 1D and it seems really heavy compared to my 350D (rebel) which is encased in a plastic body. The benefit of the plastic body is that it's light and easily held with one hand when you're not shooting. To carry a 1D around would be murder on the arms after a while
>> Anonymous
>>42327

Good point, Hence the K10D. Cheap and is a blowjob for your eyes.
>> Anonymous
>>42339
Yes, that's the nice thing about plastic. Sometimes I just take my D70, put 50mm Nikkor on it and go out. Just me with camera attached to my wrist, without bags or anything. All day long. Very nice feeling.
>> thefamilyman
>>42339
full metal bodies can be a burden sometimes as you've pointed out.
i have a Nikon F5, thats like the 1D, it has a full cast aluminum body with a rubbery surrounding. It weighs 1.2KG, but built like a tank, i could honestly beat someone to death with it and then take photos of it after.
it gets very painful after a wile with a big ED telephoto lens, sore arms.
If i had the money, i would sell my F5 for a F6 any day.

So i'm quite pleased with my D70, its made from plastic, but the build quality is so great, its not an issue. (and if i'm really complaining about weight, i whip out my Fuji F30)
>> Anonymous
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>>42171

Here's something I think you would like. It's got that retro chic you seem to want.

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>> Anonymous
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>>42403

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>> Anonymous
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>>42404
It's like someone took old and smashed it together with new to create this thing. I want one.

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>> Anonymous
>>42403
Beautiful camera!
>> Anonymous
>>42171
plastic is cheaper and probably easier to work with. plus its lighter. yeah, metal is more durable, but chances are that if you drop your dslr, you're gonna have bigger problems than just scratches
>> SR
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>>42403

Or this - smaller than that Leica, but still retro and magnesium alloy casing (bought it in preference to the Leica D Lux-3)
>> Anonymous
>>42171

Well, most SLRs (except for the D40/D40X and some others), are actually a metal chassis with a plastic framing.

I.e., the Canon Digital Rebel XTi (EOS 400D); stainless steel frame, but a plastic body cover. For the 30D and the X0D series, it is the same except, instead of a plastic cover, they have magnesium ones. Once you get to the highest pro bodies (1DMkII, D2, etc), they feel and behave like lighter bricks wrapped in rubber and a durable body coating.

I have an old Canon A-1 and I know what you mean, but I really can't see why you there was some dip in "quality" over the years.
>> Anonymous
I would think it's because there are cheaper, stronger, lighter materials out there from which a camera body can be made.

Why aren't airplanes still made from wood and fabric?
>> Anonymous
>>42483
This is true, but I personally feel as an amateur photographer that "lighter" is not necessarily better. Having a heavy camera is anti-shake in itself, and you wouldn't need to purchase a camera with image stabilization.

Once I get more experience, a lighter camera would be more benefitial, especially if taken on long hikes. So there might be a market for metal/heavier cameras. But it's probably not big enough for the vendors to pay attention too.

sage for being on the top page long enough.
>> Anonymous
>>42526
or if its too heavy itll cause more shake by you having to hold it up.
>> Anonymous
>>42403

Its not that nice to use. Too chunky in the hand, might look alright, but its still crap. Oh and its massively expensive.
>> Anonymous
They still use metal, but very polished and painted. 20 years ago camera had ugly finish
>> Anonymous
>>42621

I looked through all of the pictures in this thread again after reading that, and you are so, so WRONG. The finishes on old cameras aren't ugly, they're elegant.
>> Anonymous
>>42187
No, no, it's the other way aroud. The Leica is the rebadged one. The DMC-L1 is Panasonics prestige entry into the dSLR market; it's made from the ground up by the engineers at Panasonic. The mirror box, viewfinder assembly and live-view functionality is strikingly similar to the Olympus E-330, tho'. The highly praised "Leica D Vario-Elmarit 14-50 MM 2.8-3.5 /w IS" lense kitted with the L1 is also fully built by Panasonic (with insight and help from the Leica engineers they own). The upcoming (and reported to be "simply brilliant" "Leica D Summilux 25 MM 1.4" is also built by Panasonic /w a little help from Leica.

See also...
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicdmcl1/
...for more on the L1.
>> Anonymous
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I'm>>42923again. Forgot to post the old school hotness.
>> ac
>>42924
I've got a Canonet QL17 GIII that's similar in styling to this. I need to take it out more often. It's a joy to use.
>> Alzo
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posting in old school thread.

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>> Anonymous
>>42923
>Leica D Summilux 25 MM 1.4

Moar info plox.
>> Anonymous
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http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/lumix/leica_d_lens/fixed_focal_length_lens.html

Check out that MTF chart; it's no Leica Summilux-M 50 mm f/1.4 ASPH., but it's still good none the less. Inital test shots posted on DPReview/Olympus SLR Talk also look quite good, especially at f/1.4 - and that's no small feat for a f/1.4 lens, if you catch my multi track drift.
>> Anonymous
I'm>>42972again. I forgot to mention it also costs about a fourth of the "genuine" Leica M-mount lens, but it's performance seems to be far from just a fourth as good. The Four Thirds system (of wich I own a body and two lenses) seems better and better looking all the time. They (Olympus) has also improved the noise levels @ high ISO's in their new E-410 body. Just imagine a Canon EOS 5D Mk. II with the same pixel density - can you say 40 megapixels? :D
>> Anonymous
>>42976
The four-thirds system is very good on a technical level, but aesthetically I think most photographs look better at the old 35mm 3:2 ratio.
>> Anonymous
>>42972here again; I seem to be tripfagging. I forgot about the different aspect ratio of the sensors (4:3 VS. 3:2), so the imagined upgraded 5D won't be quite 40 MP, but closer to ~36-37?
>> Anonymous
>>42979
Just crop it?
>> des
>>42924
nice
any cheapo rangefinder /p/unks use the minolta ALs? I've been using my fujica as a beaton carryall camera but I'm looking for something a little smaller that's still usable.
>> Anonymous
The F-90x was made of metal. it actually stopped a bullet from hitting a reporter in iraq (the first time around) people still use it because of its durability. although d-slr is taking over.
>> Anonymous
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Hey /p/, do any of you have any photos taken by a Pentax 1000?

I found one in my attic, and I thought that maybe I should learn how to work it.

I'm interested in what the quality of the pictures are, and all of that good stuff.
>> Anonymous
>>43034

It is an excellent camera, but it is lacking somewhat in the feature-set. Things like no DOF preview and such. Still, you'll get great images out of the k1000 assuming you have good glass. That's the good thing about the pentax system, all of the K mount glass from pentax that i have encountered is good at worst and spectacular at best. You're on your own when you go third party. Hell, you could even get an M42->K adapter and use even cheaper but still just as good Takumar lenses with the damn thing. One thing about it though, it has no automatic shooting modes whatsoever (No Aperture priority or shutter or anything like that). Full manual. I just hope that the one you have is one of the older pentax made models and not one of the newer, shittier, chinese made ones. There's a reason why so many photo 101 classes use these cameras, and why they are so abundant on the used market. The perfect beginner SLR, some would say.

I personally think that if its your first time using an SLR, stick with C41 process BW film. It takes some of the variables out that need to be considered when shooting color (that is, it's easier, IMO). Of course, once you get used to it and can work it easily, you could stick with it, or upgrade to a better pentax body, Like the KX, MX, or LX, in order of age.