File :-(, x, )
underexposure vs. overexposure Anonymous
point was put foward in>>63268and variously by>>63408,>>63418(me) and by>>63420(kind of). Rather than copypasta links forever and ever, i went out and did some quick example shots. draw your own conclusions. bet you can guess what mine is.

First photo is correct exposure.
EXIF data available. Clickhereto show/hide.
Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeCanonCamera ModelCanon PowerShot A80Camera SoftwareAdobe Photoshop CS WindowsMaximum Lens Aperturef/2.8Sensing MethodOne-Chip Color AreaImage-Specific Properties:Image OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution180 dpiVertical Resolution180 dpiImage Created2007:07:18 13:33:59Image OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution180 dpiVertical Resolution180 dpiImage Created2007:07:18 14:33:48Exposure Time1/500 secF-Numberf/2.8Lens Aperturef/2.8Exposure Bias0 EVMetering ModePatternFlashNo Flash, CompulsoryFocal Length7.81 mmColor Space InformationsRGBImage Width750Image Height562RenderingNormalExposure ModeManualWhite BalanceManualScene Capture TypeStandard
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
3 stops over. notice clipping.

Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeCanonCamera ModelCanon PowerShot A80Camera SoftwareAdobe Photoshop CS WindowsMaximum Lens Aperturef/2.8Sensing MethodOne-Chip Color AreaImage-Specific Properties:Image OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution180 dpiVertical Resolution180 dpiImage Created2007:07:18 13:34:25Image OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution180 dpiVertical Resolution180 dpiImage Created2007:07:18 14:35:31Exposure Time1/60 secF-Numberf/2.8Lens Aperturef/2.8Exposure Bias0 EVMetering ModePatternFlashNo Flash, CompulsoryFocal Length7.81 mmColor Space InformationsRGBImage Width750Image Height562RenderingNormalExposure ModeManualWhite BalanceManualScene Capture TypeStandard
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
3 stops under. for every true stop i went down, camera indicated -2/3 instead. worth noting.

Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeCanonCamera ModelCanon PowerShot A80Camera SoftwareAdobe Photoshop CS WindowsMaximum Lens Aperturef/2.8Sensing MethodOne-Chip Color AreaImage-Specific Properties:Image OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution180 dpiVertical Resolution180 dpiImage Created2007:07:18 13:36:29Image OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution180 dpiVertical Resolution180 dpiImage Created2007:07:18 14:36:18Exposure Time1/1000 secF-Numberf/5.6Lens Aperturef/5.6Exposure Bias0 EVMetering ModePatternFlashNo Flash, CompulsoryFocal Length7.81 mmColor Space InformationsRGBImage Width2272Image Height1704RenderingNormalExposure ModeManualWhite BalanceAutoScene Capture TypeStandard
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
same photo as above, histogram stretched to more or less match the original. Worth noting that I am lazy at photoshop and spent 3 seconds doing this.

Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeCanonCamera ModelCanon PowerShot A80Camera SoftwareAdobe Photoshop CS WindowsMaximum Lens Aperturef/2.8Sensing MethodOne-Chip Color AreaImage-Specific Properties:Image OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution180 dpiVertical Resolution180 dpiImage Created2007:07:18 14:39:14Exposure Time1/1000 secF-Numberf/5.6Lens Aperturef/5.6Exposure Bias0 EVMetering ModePatternFlashNo Flash, CompulsoryFocal Length7.81 mmColor Space InformationsRGBImage Width750Image Height562RenderingNormalExposure ModeManualWhite BalanceAutoScene Capture TypeStandard
>> Anonymous
your correct exposure already has a lot of clipped highlights and shadows. more highlights though. try doing this with something that starts all in the range of the camera to begin with.
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
it's the 3-stops-overexposed photo, with the histogram stretched pretty far. I even clipped the black, just to see if I could extract any detail from the highlights. Could not.

Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeCanonCamera ModelCanon PowerShot A80Camera SoftwareAdobe Photoshop CS WindowsMaximum Lens Aperturef/2.8Sensing MethodOne-Chip Color AreaImage-Specific Properties:Image OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution180 dpiVertical Resolution180 dpiImage Created2007:07:18 13:34:25Image OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution180 dpiVertical Resolution180 dpiImage Created2007:07:18 14:43:02Exposure Time1/60 secF-Numberf/2.8Lens Aperturef/2.8Exposure Bias0 EVMetering ModePatternFlashNo Flash, CompulsoryFocal Length7.81 mmColor Space InformationsRGBImage Width750Image Height562RenderingNormalExposure ModeManualWhite BalanceManualScene Capture TypeStandard
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
Well yes, obviously you don't want to overexpose to the point of clipping. That wasn't what I was saying. My point is that you get better results from darkening overexposed (but unclipped) highlights than from lightening shadows.
>> Anonymous
did you arbitrarily choose to go +/- 3 stops? the point is you push the histogram as far to the right as possible -*WITHOUT*- clipping anything. your uh proof or whatever you want to call this is incorrectly done therefore proves nothing.
>> Anonymous
Also, your camera probably doesn't shoot RAW. (If it does, please correct me.) If one is shooting JPEG, spot-on exposure is the best, because there's no point in trying to pull out data the camera threw away. But overexposing slightly (if I'm doing this, I usually only go a third of stop to one stop) improves the dynamic range in RAW mode.
>> Anonymous
>>63435
fair enough. i'll go shoot something in the shade. have it up in 10 min. but 63433 actually proves my point about increasing dynamic range with underexposure. There are very few clipped shadows in it, and no blown-out highlights. Ken Rockwell's got a whole buncha stuff written up about this on his site.


>>63438
i'm in agreement with you on this and the LL link. I would even go so far to say that as long as no highlights are clipped, then it's still the correct exposure. i don't agree with your hasty generalization that it's always better to overexpose, however. You're almost guaranteed to have clipped highlights that way (if you're a noob), whereas it's much more difficult to clip shadows.
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
>>63440

wasn't arbitrary. shot it in one-stop intervals, 3 stops proved my point best. Here's one stop, which is already showing clipping.

and no, camera do not shootz raw. neither did the OP's from the previous thread, which is why I used my old A80 instead of my DSLR. OP was asking about tips for his camera and got various tips that were variously irrelevant. RAW is great, but a lot of people don't use it.

Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeCanonCamera ModelCanon PowerShot A80Camera SoftwareAdobe Photoshop CS WindowsMaximum Lens Aperturef/2.8Sensing MethodOne-Chip Color AreaImage-Specific Properties:Image OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution180 dpiVertical Resolution180 dpiImage Created2007:07:18 13:34:04Image OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution180 dpiVertical Resolution180 dpiImage Created2007:07:18 15:22:22Exposure Time1/250 secF-Numberf/2.8Lens Aperturef/2.8Exposure Bias0 EVMetering ModePatternFlashNo Flash, CompulsoryFocal Length7.81 mmColor Space InformationsRGBImage Width750Image Height562RenderingNormalExposure ModeManualWhite BalanceManualScene Capture TypeStandard
>> Anonymous
>>63448
your first photo is already more towards the right side anyway by the look of it. its a bright photo. of course its gonna take less stops to blow a bunch of highlights than a lot of shadows.
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
here's a horrifically boring photo taken in the shade. Histogram is nice and round.

Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeCanonCamera ModelCanon PowerShot A80Camera SoftwareAdobe Photoshop CS WindowsMaximum Lens Aperturef/4.0Sensing MethodOne-Chip Color AreaImage-Specific Properties:Image OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution180 dpiVertical Resolution180 dpiImage Created2007:07:18 14:43:03Image OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution180 dpiVertical Resolution180 dpiImage Created2007:07:18 15:31:06Exposure Time1/100 secF-Numberf/4.0Lens Aperturef/4.0Exposure Bias0 EVMetering ModePatternFlashNo Flash, CompulsoryFocal Length16.22 mmColor Space InformationsRGBImage Width750Image Height562RenderingNormalExposure ModeManualWhite BalanceAutoScene Capture TypeStandard
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
1/3 stop over and the histogram (included) shows clipping.

Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeCanonCamera ModelCanon PowerShot A80Camera SoftwareAdobe Photoshop CS WindowsMaximum Lens Aperturef/4.0Sensing MethodOne-Chip Color AreaImage-Specific Properties:Image OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution180 dpiVertical Resolution180 dpiImage Created2007:07:18 14:43:13Image OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution180 dpiVertical Resolution180 dpiImage Created2007:07:18 16:04:38Exposure Time1/80 secF-Numberf/4.0Lens Aperturef/4.0Exposure Bias0 EVMetering ModePatternFlashNo Flash, CompulsoryFocal Length16.22 mmColor Space InformationsRGBImage Width750Image Height562RenderingNormalExposure ModeManualWhite BalanceAutoScene Capture TypeStandard
>> Anonymous
I'm guessing nobody in the previous thread bothered to read

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/expose-right.shtml

READ THAT PAGE!!!!
--------------------

It explains HOW cameras store data when they ARE WORKING IN RAW and why LESS information is spent storing SHADOWS

ac + others who say that overexposing (not arbitrarily) to just before you see clipping in the highlights are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT

Thread over, there is no more discussion on the subject if you're dealing with raw files and if you have some fucking common sense in you and don't overexpose like fuck just for the hell of it.
>> Anonymous
>>63473
i've read it, many times before today. And I agree with it. (already said so too.)

But we were talking about jpeg, not RAW. Crucial distinction. Was never trying to disprove the luminous landscape page, merely arguing that when shooting jpeg (as the op of that thread did and most people do) and are unsure of exposure, it's platitudes safer to underexpose than to overexpose (and i will stubbornly maintain that underexposure will also give you a stop or two of dynamic range, if also extra noise). I then proceeded to demonstrate this in an open, fair manner, only to be nitpicked to death because zomg wtf RAW FILEZ!!! subject brightness ratio!!

really, if there's anything to learn from this, it's to not take any forum user's word on anything photographic and just go try it for yourself. surprising what you can learn.

saged because someone else is just going to raise objections because it's better to shoot in raw blah blah blah and if i have to see someone just fucking paste that luminous landscape link instead of discussing or actually proving me wrong one more time i'm going to vomit.