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Anonymous
Manual function on a camera

I'm new to cameras, how do I use it?
>> thefamilyman
>>39161
RTFM, simple
>> Anonymous
Very basic explanation: pick the aperture or shutter speed you want then adjust the other one until the light meter reads a correct exposure.

More advanced: know what the fuck you're doing and chose the aperture and shutter speed you want to achieve the desired photograph.
>> Anonymous
Manual is unnecessary in most (not all) situations. What control manual gives you can easily be accomplished using Av or Tv with Exposure Compensation.
>> Alzo
lol you wouldn't know how to use it anyway, if you have to ask where it is.
>> Anonymous
>>39171
No, Av and Tv are unnecessary in most situations. It takes less than a second to switch the settings around in manual.
>> des
>>39873
aperture priority+easy EV compensation, don't knock it till you've tried it
>>39171
sup
>> ac
>>39873
And the nice thing about that, nobody has *ever* lost a good picture in less than a second. The limit is always five minutes.
>> Anonymous
>>39161
Don't mean to insult you, but if you're new to cameras you don't really have a reason to use it -- modes Av, Tv and P should be enough.
>> Anonymous
>>39874
I have tried it. I use it when necessary, like in situations with rapidly shifting light. But manual works upwards of 95% of the time.

Also, one of the flaws of auto-exposing anything is that it will go for the same amount of light each time. Say I take three photographs, and for creative reasons I want one to be a stop over or under the others. It takes longer to tell a priority mode that than to just press the shutter speed button up or down a little.
>> Anonymous
>>39884
How do you think people managed for decades before automatic exposure came out? They got to where they were going to be taking pictures, and adjusted the settings on their camera to fit the exposure they were looking for in advance.

And then, when they pressed the shutter, it exposed, with no lag for the camera to meter to and calculate the shutter, the aperture, the focus, or any of that. Waiting for the camera will make one miss more shots than having to adjust the settings every once in awhile.
>> Anonymous
>>39904
If he's new to cameras, then that's all the more reason to use it. If he lets the camera do all the work for him, how is he supposed to learn how it works?

I met someone a week or so ago who thought himself a high-level amateur photographer who didn't know what "shutter speed" and "aperture" meant, but knew what "exposure" meant because he had stumbled across program mode on his camera.
>> Anonymous
Don't listen to those saying you don’t need to learn it, OP. The basics of working in manual can be learned in twenty minutes with quick experimentation on a camera and reading Wikipedia articles on aperture, shutter speed, exposure, exposure value, depth of field, ISO speed, and other articles linked to them. Then practice.

A starter:

Exposure is how much light is let into the camera. It is typically measured in "f-stops," generally just called "stops." There should be an indicator on your camera, if it is a modern design, telling you if it will record the same amount of light there actually is (it should read something like +-0 for this), more than there is (+ by how many stops this is the case), or less (- by how many stops this is the case).

If your camera is older, you'll need a light meter or an chart giving estimates; some Wikipedia article has one for ISO 100 film (wait for that) and film manufacturers will typically have charts telling you for their film.
>> Anonymous
>>39915
Shutter speed is how long the camera is taking the picture for. In most cases, you will want this as low as possible where your exposure is fine, because too long will blur the photograph because of your hands shaking, things moving, etcetera. Sometimes, like a car driving past on the street, you'll want this long to give the idea of "motion."

Aperture is how open the lens is, measure in f-numbers, which are like golf scores: the lower the f-number, the more open the lens is. Lower f-numbers mean there is less depth of field, which just means a smaller fraction of what the camera sees is in focus. Higher f-numbers mean there is more depth of field, which means the opposite. Typically, one would use high depth of field to shoot something like a landscape, where detail needs to be captured across the field of view. Low depth of field is for things like portrait photography, where there is one subject and everything else is just distracting.

ISO Speed is how sensitive the film/camera sensor is to light. Unless you're intentionally messing with the photograph for artistic reasons, always shoot at the lowest ISO that will still let you set the aperture and shutter speed as you want them. Higher ISOs have more grain, that is, little speck-spots on the photograph. In film cameras, that comes from there being more silver in the film; in digital, I think it is a limitation of the sensor, but I'm not sure.
>> Anonymous
>>39910
That's what exposure compensation is for. Really, I was in your camp until I actually tried using Av for a while and found that it really is a lot more convenient than manual and gives you the same amount of control in 99% of situations.
>> ac
>>39911
I know exactly how people did it before. They set a narrow aperture so they didn't have to focus very acurately. They set a shutter speed to match that aperture. Then, they relied on the exposure latitude of film to carry them one or two stops over or under what they shot once they got back to the darkroom.

If it was too dark for a narrow aperture, too bad, you're fucked. If the exposure you used was too far for the latitude of your film, too bad, you're fucked. They got lots of amazing pictures, but I'm betting that a hell of a lot of amazing pictures were missed because they had to change their exposure. Even Cartier-Bresson is gonna miss the Decisive Moment if he notices it without enough time to manually set his exposure.

I do fully manual metering every time I use my film SLR, since that's the only option. It *always* takes longer than metering on my Digital Rebel.

Just because it's possible to do something in a less convenient fashion doesn't mean it's a good idea.
>> des
>>39910
On the three Av capable cameras I've access to, EV comp is the same motion. No chording, just spin a wheel.
Yeah, on older bodies like, say, the FE, it's a pain in the ass. Hold this button while spinning the ring aroud the rewind knob, bleh.
>> Anonymous
>>39917
It's not just about the controlling the end product, though. A good musician, who can play a piece in a technically identical way with or without sheet music, will not stop using sheet music just because he doesn't need it. It's the same way with photography: the process of putting thought into converting between different ways of getting the same exposure and everything is an integral part of photography. Sometimes there just isn't time for that, and one has to use the priority settings, but that always has to be a fallback. The intangibles, while intangible, do affect the way a person shoots, composes, and so on.

>>39921
Setting a narrow aperture was one option. Another I've heard a lot of them did was simply focus and move with the subject.

Today, photographers probably miss shots because they press the button, and only then does the autofocus kick in and calculate. Even if they have it calculate before they command the camera to expose, they still lose time.

They'll be times when manual focus is faster and auto focus is faster, so I use both as appropriate.

I can't speak about the Digital Rebel's controls; I've never used one. The two cameras I've used on a typical basis (A G2 and an S3IS) can be manually adjusted instantly, with the push of one button.

But really, how often does one have to adjust exposure? Once one gets set properly, there is almost no reason to adjust it except to push the shutter speed one way or another for creative reasons. If one takes thirty seconds when he arrives to a place he will be shooting to adjust his exposure, he won't have to do anything with it except for creative reasons, and there will be no lag while the camera figures it out.

How is the Digital Rebel? I've avoided owning an SLR because of the size and the cost, but the Rebel seems like it might be acceptable in those areas.
>> Anonymous
>>39931
You don't really know what you're talking about, do you?

Get an SLR and you will understand the importance of priority modes and why they are fundamentally the same as manual in 99% of shooting.

I'll break it down for you.

With manual mode, you set the aperture (or shutter speed) according to your desired effect then adjust the shutter speed (or aperture) until your meter reads the correct exposure (or until you find the over/under exposure you want on the meter.

In Av mode, you set the aperture you want then the camera automatically sets the shutter speed to a correct exposure (this eliminates one thing you need to do without sacrificing any creative control) then you either leave it at that exposure or use exposure compensation (same as adjusting the shutter speed) to +/- up to 2 stops. Tv mode is the same, with aperture and shutter speed reversed.

As you can see, this has nothing to do with creative control or knowing your tools. Priority modes require the same knowledge of your tools and permit the exact same amount of creative control.

And how often does one have to adjust exposure? Just about every single shot I take has exposure adjust specifically for that shot.
>> Anonymous
Interesting discussion... Personally I shoot Manual all the time.
>> Anonymous
>>39910
You are retarded thats called bracketing, which is a setting on most cameras, Now it has an accurate exposure and varies from there, unlike youre manually adjusting everything, I can do a 3 shot burst in 1 second...
>> Anonymous
>>39932
I've shot with a DSLR (A Canon EOS-1D) some times before. I just have decided not to up and buy one for myself and use it on a regular basis because I don't like the size, and because it's expensive. For me, the ability to easily carry the camera with me and the cost savings outweigh interchangeable lenses and the other advantages of a DSLR.

I know how priority modes work. I'm not denying that one can reach the same exposure with a manual and a priority mode. What I'm saying is that it's preferable to use manual over priority in most situations.

What sort of shooting to you do to have to change your exposure settings for each exposure?

>>39934
I'm not talking about bracketing. Perhaps I should've said a number other than three so people didn't get confused.

Say I am taking ten seperate photographs of ten seperate subjects under the same lighting condition. Say I want the seventh a little overexposed. That's what I meant; nothing at all to do with bracketing.
>> Anonymous
lol @ anyone who says manual in unnecessary
>> ac
>>39934
Stop being on my side. You make my side look bad.
>> ac
>>39935
>What I'm saying is that it's preferable to use manual over priority in most situations.
Should be
>What I'm saying is that I personally prefer to use manual over priority in most situations

It's nice that you can meter fully manually with no problem, but for 99.9% of the photographers out there, they'll get much better pictures if they spend more time and brain power on composition and less time fiddling with little knobs.

>What sort of shooting to you do to have to change your exposure settings for each exposure?
Can't talk for the guy you're responding to, but I move around a lot. Lighting's a little different depending on which angle I'm at.

Quick example, taking pictures of my girlfriend. I'll move from taking pictures of her with the light coming straight in through the window, then some with her backlit. And all the while, my girlfriend moves around, 'cause she doesn't like having her picture taken as much as I like taking her picture. She'd hate it even more if I had to make her wait for me to set my exposure every time. She always gets annoyed when I spend a long time futzing with my manual film camera.
>> Anonymous
Aperture priority is fine... if you're fine with relinquishing that level of control. We've got a lot of variables to juggle, and if you let the camera take care of one as important as shutter speed, get ready to be surprised (and likely disappointed).

It's also only fine if your camera has a decent light meter. I find the D50's meter to be very misleading and unreliable, in all three modes: matrix, center-weighted, and spot. Of all of them, matrix is the most reliable, but tends to create some very bad or bland photos in interesting lighting situations.

You should reach a point after a lot of practice where you can operate fully in manual mode, and scarcely check your meter. Learn the light.

Finally, there's a reason virtually every pro uses a handheld meter: in-camera meters suuuuuck.
>> heavyweather !4AIf7oXcbA
>>39962
Oops, that was me. lolsry
>> Anonymous
>>39957
The process of setting the exposure is bound up in the process of composition, and vice versa. Photography is primarily what the name says it is- writing with light. A composition that works with one combination of exposure settings may not work with another, even if the exposures measure identically. I understand what you're saying, and of course all this is personal, but it really seems to me that the making of any art is too holistic to relegate part of it to computer unless absolutely necessary. A writer doesn't count on to spellcheck to edit his manuscript, for instance. He looks at its recommendation and makes a decision. If an indispensable moment comes and your priority mode doesn't cut it, it'll take even more time to switch to manual and correct it than it would just to work in manual from the start, even if one had to change both aperture and shutter.

I move around a lot, too, but both in outdoors and in rooms without strange sorts of lighting, the lighting is pretty constant. When I’m shooting people moving around like that, I’ll keep my thumb on the shutter speed or aperture control, depending, so I can adjust it very quickly. I don’t know what you shoot with, but on the S3IS and the G2, the controls are right next to where one is supposed to put one’s thumb, and one can hold it equally well with the thumb right over it. If that wasn’t the case and it was somewhere strange, I might use Av and Tv more; I suppose this all just speaks to the impact of the design of a camera (or any tool) on style, the importance of finding a camera that works for one’s shooting style, and the importance of good camera design.
>> Anonymous
>>39962
>Aperture priority is fine... if you're fine with relinquishing that level of control. We've got a lot of variables to juggle, and if you let the camera take care of one as important as shutter speed, get ready to be surprised (and likely disappointed)... You should reach a point after a lot of practice where you can operate fully in manual mode, and scarcely check your meter. Learn the light.

I'd agree with all that.

As for the things about light meters, I'm curious: how can one check the quality of a lightmeter's readings, other than by subjective guessing? Or is that it? I'm sure the ones on my cameras aren't top-quality, but I'm curious.
>> Anonymous
>>39962
Nobody is going to argue that manual is necessary for a hand-held light meter. Nor will they argue that hand-held light meters are vastly superior to in-camera.