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Anonymous
soup /p/ when will we get live view in film cameras? that totally would rock
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>> Anonymous
Polaroid.
>> Jeremo !iKGMr61IHM
we already do, it's called the viewfinder! BOOM!

That sigma would have been the saving grace for all P&S...*sigh*
>> Anonymous
f/4 = PHAIL
>> Jeremo !iKGMr61IHM
>>99951

You're a tool. That's a P&S with an APS-C sensor in it. f/4 is actually close to being f/4.

The phail is on you!
>> Jeremo !iKGMr61IHM
here are the specs.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0609/06092604sigmadp1.asp

read them and weep, we should have had a camera like this on the market for ages.
>> Anonymous
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>>99925
I don't see why everyone creams their pants over DP1.
f/4, wide angle lens = not much of a shallow DoF
Foveon sensor = ISO above 400 unusable
Plus no zoom, expected huge price tag and it's still not much more pocketable than, say, an Olympus E-400 with some pancake lens.

Btw new design is cooler than OP pic
>> Jeremo !iKGMr61IHM
>>99963

f/4 will get you PLENTY of shallow DoF, zoom? Use your legs.

You are missing the point of this camera. It could be a breakthrough.

It's a potential step closer to manufacturers finally getting their shit together and producing P&S without the little p.o.s. sensors in them.

This would eventually lead a push up the market into DSLR territory.
>> Sicko !L3HRY/miC.
>>99963

Olympus E-400 (Body only)
129.5mm (W) x 91mm (H) x 53mm (D) (excluding protrusions)
Weight 375g

Sigma DP1
113.3mm (W) × 59.5mm (H) × 50.3mm (D)
Weight 240g

Quite a bit more pocketable I'd say.
>> Anonymous
>>99966
f/4 will get you plenty of shallow DoF when f is like 100mm. Sigma has a 17mm fixed lens; it's comparable to what you get when shooting with the kit lens in the widest position on your usual nikon/canon DSLR.

And looking at current Sigma's efforts, I'm afraid that DP1 could even serve as a BAD example which will deter other manufacturers from making similar stuff :o
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>99971
QFT. Good sensor + embarrassment of a lens = Fail, and I fear that they'll go "Well, I guess the large-sensor P&S idea is a failure" rather than "Well, maybe we should have given the large-sensor P&S a lens worth using."

Canon was able to put a 45mm f/1.7 on the Canonet QL17. I don't see why someone can't put an equivalent lens on a digital P&S with a large sensor.
>> Anonymous
>>100019

Who'd want to get a dslr, then?
>> Anonymous
>>100020
Those who want interchangeable lenses, obviously. QL17 and other quality fixed-lens film cameras didn't kill film SLRs, so I guess compacts with APS-C sensors won't kill APS-C DSLRs too.
>> Anonymous
Three things:

1. It's obviously designed to be something like a street shooter. Rather wide lens, presumably silent shutter. People usually keep themselves stopped down quite a bit while doing that; the only issue I see with f/4 is that it'll be harder to work with late in the evening and at night.

2. Sigma announced recently that the delay was due to them not being satisfied with the image processing engine, and in the process of them redesigning that, they got carried away with themselves and changed a bunch of specifications. What they did isn't announced yet, but I suspect they'll move to a normal lens.

3. What's supposedly bad about Foveon sensors at high ISO? I've always heard something to the effect of "it's not noise, but they suck and something else," and I've never heard what htey suck at.
>> Anonymous
Oh, and this isn't the first APS-C sensor sized point and shoot. Sony came out with one a few years ago.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydscr1/

I don't know why we always forget about it; I do it myself.
>> thefamilyman !!rTVzm2BgTOa
>>100041
as i understand it, thats called a bridge class camera, not a point and shoot
>> Anonymous
>>100043
I've always considered "bridge" to be a classification of a "point and shoot" (which is just, IMO, a bad name for a small sensor camera; I doubt anyone will be using the Sigma in a "point and shoot" manner) in the same way "professional" or "prosumer" are classifications of DSLR.
>> Anonymous
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>>100039
1. For this, you don't need neither shallow DoF nor high ISOs, so DP1 offers no real advantage over a regular point-and-shoot with manual controls (e.g. Panasonic LX2).

2. Sigma may have as well said that the delay was due to spiders stealing their pixie dust; it doesn't change the fact that DP1 is long overdue .

3. They do suck at noise/noise reduction. Especially when they interpolate the image to 10+ MP to match the resolution of comparable Bayer-type sensors. Pic related.

Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeSIGMACamera ModelSIGMA SD14Camera SoftwareSIGMA PhotoPro 3Maximum Lens Aperturef/3.7Sensing MethodOne-Chip Color AreaFocal Length (35mm Equiv)56 mmSerial Number01003855Focal Length Range17 to 70Firmware VersionSD14 1.03Camera Software3.0.1.24Image-Specific Properties:Image OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution180 dpiVertical Resolution180 dpiImage Created2007:09:04 18:15:44Exposure Time1/6 secF-Numberf/16.0Exposure ProgramAperture PriorityISO Speed Rating1600Exposure Bias0 EVMetering ModeAverageLight SourceUnknownFlashNo FlashFocal Length33.00 mmColor Space InformationsRGBImage Width2640Image Height1760RenderingCustomExposure ModeAuto BracketWhite BalanceManualScene Capture TypeStandardUnique Image ID3031303033383535C819BF46EE926909Drive Mode2SResolutionHIAutofocus ModeAF-SFocus SettingAFWhite BalanceCustomExposure ModeAMetering ModeAExposure1/2Contrast0Shadow0Highlight1/10Saturation-1/10Sharpness0Fill Light0Color Adjustment0Adjustment ModeAutoQuality10Auto Bracket0 of 0
>> Anonymous
>>100054
1. Agreed. I actually use a point and shoot for my street work already. But having one with a larger sensor for after it gets dark would be nice, though the f/4 lens sort of kills that. Hopefully they'll be a new and faster lens... f/2.8 even would be fine, f/2 would be fantastic.

2. Yes, that's true, but who cares? I'd rather they take their time and get it right than release some half-baked product.

3. They interpolate their images? They go through having special sensors and then interpolate them? Do they do this to the raw files, or just the JPEGs?
>> Anonymous
Sigma cameras aren't that bad and this will be a massive improvement over previous P&S. Getting back to the affordable rangefinder days.
>> Anonymous
>>100058
RAWs are fine, and you may choose not to interpolate JPEGs. But you'll get only 4.5MP in this case, not 14MP advertised on the box.
>> Anonymous
>>100064
So Foveon sensors aren't as amazing as they're cracked up to be?

Rot.
>> Anonymous
>>100063
Affordable? The DP1's cost will be comparable to entry-level SLRs or more. Gotta pay for "exclusive" stuff.
>> Anonymous
>>100067

Still more likely to have this than a Leica in my lifetime.
>> Anonymous
>>100065
Foveon sensors are good, they just have too few megapix0lz...
>> Anonymous
>>100064

You underestimate the sensor.
>> Anonymous
>>100070
How do I underestimate it?
The sensor in SD14 (and DP1) can either produce 4.5 awesomely detailed megapixels or 14 shitty megapixels.
>> Anonymous
>>100069
Can they not make even a native 6 megapixel sensor?
>> Anonymous
+++MEGAPIXELS=+++BETTER CAMERA!!!!

BUY A P&S WITH TWENTY MEGAPIXELS, DON'T BUY A SHITTY SLR WITH ONLY TEN OR SO.
>> Anonymous
>>100077
More megapixels help up to a point, but you're right that they're not the most important thing. But 4.5 is a pretty small file.
>> Anonymous
>>100076
I think they will make it in the near future. 4.5MP Foveons were on par with 6-8MP conventional sensors detail-wise, but now they need to counter 10MP and 12MP ones.
>> Anonymous
Pixel interpolation should be illegal and every company that produces a device that artificially blows up megapixel sizes should be boycotted with force.

Pixel interpolation = absolute 100% fail. Prove me wrong.
>> Anonymous
>>100083
Pixel interpolation = absolute fail
Subpixel interpolation = well, that's how our usual Bayer sensors work...
>> Anonymous
wow, my troll thread turned into an actual discussion

/p/, you disappoint me :-(
>> Anonymous
>>100083
Yeah! You're exactly right! The only thing stupider would be sticking a little slice of plastic with an emulsion on it into a projecter and putting special paper beneath it to make a larger image!
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>100097
While I see what you did thar, there's a difference. You're talking about making an enlargement; interpolating resolution in the way that the Foveon chips do is more like pretending that that enlargement isn't an enlargement. Like doing an enlargement from your 35mm negative to a piece of 120 and then claiming that it was shot on medium format.
>> Anonymous
>>100099
True, but I don't imagine someone would set it to interpolate unless they needed the larger file. In which case doing so would probably be little different than the digital version of making an enlargement: punching in larger values into Photoshop's resize menu.
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>100101
Except that I'm guessing they have their misleading large marketing resolution by default, and using external software to interpolate would work better than using the camera-internal software (e.g., you could use something like Genuine Fractals), and it wouldn't potentially destroy data by hiding which pixels are "real" and which are imagined fantasies of your camera.
>> Anonymous
>>100095
silly newfag, it's impossible to troll /p/
>> Anonymous
>>100110
Well, when you need to compete against 8 semi-fake megapixels (of a Bayer sensor), having 14 fake megapixels is probably a better marketing decision than having 4.5 fair ones... :D
>> Anonymous
Comparison to Bayer filter sensors – actual samples

Sigma's SD14 site has galleries of full-resolution images showing the color produced by the current state of Foveon technology. The 14-MP Foveon chip produces 4.7 MP native-size RGB files; 14-MP Bayer filter cameras produce a 14 MP native file size by interpolation (demosaicing). Direct visual comparison of images from 12.7-MP Bayer sensors and 14.1 MP Foveon sensors show Bayer images ahead on fine monochrome detail, such as the lines between bricks on a distant building, but the Foveon images are ahead on color resolution.


~Wikipedia


http://www.sigma-sd14.com/ Gallery of images from that sensor.
>> Anonymous
>>100121
>the Foveon images are ahead on color resolution.
And then Sigma's wonderful processing engine smears the color all over the fucking place at higher ISOs, as seen in>>100054lol.
>> Anonymous
>>100123

At ISO 1600? Not bad. Beats the shit out of any other compact. I've seen similar results from DSLRs.
>> Anonymous
>>100123
How are the raw files? Fine or not?
>> Anonymous
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>>100126
Note that it's a 4.5 megapixel image. If you shrink an ISO 1600 shot taken with a decent compact to that size, it won't look like complete shit either (pic related)

>>100135
Depends on the software you use to develop them; but anyway, at these sensitivities it's either noise or blurring and color bleeding.

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>> Anonymous
This camera has nothing going for it.
>> Anonymous
>>100331

Speak for yourself. I and a few others are looking forward to it. It doesn't really have any competition in its class.
>> Anonymous
>>100335
>> Anonymous
My Powershot A610 is a way better camera than this Sigma DP1.