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Difference between SLR and rangefinder focusing Anonymous
So my dad has a NIkon FG and I vaguely remember using it when I was a kid.

The viewfinder had like, 1 or 2 circles in the middle, there was a part that was like miniature-diamond shaped, one part in the middle that was sometimes black but it could change. It's all very vague and I don't have the tiny batteries it needs to power it.

But I remember that even I could focus it when I was a kid and it was pretty easy to just move the focus ring on the lens around until stuff was sharp.

Now, how is it done differently on a rangefinder? I'm assuming it's the same in the digital M8 and the film ones.

I read about something like, overlapping images and you match them to focus. There's distance meter, brightlines, it's all very confusing.

Wasn't there also a split image part in the SLR I have or am I remembering wrong? Like, in the middle middle circle.
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
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With a rangefinder, you're not looking straight through the lens. You're looking at a little window above and to one side of the lens, and in the middle of that viewfinder, there's a small differently-colored patch that's overlaid that actually comes from a *different* window next to the viewfinder. You make the viewfinder image in the rangefinder patch line up with the rangefinder image in the rangefinder patch and the thing you made line up is now in focus.

It's similar in function and theory to the split-prism rangefinder in a good manual-focus SLR, but very different to use.

Attached is a shot I took through my Canonet rangefinder. The bunny is in the rangefinder patch. When I turn the lens focusing ring, the yellowy version shifts until it's overlaid right on the normal version.

Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeCanonCamera ModelCanon EOS DIGITAL REBEL XTiLens Size18.00 - 55.00 mmFirmware VersionFirmware 1.1.1Owner NameunknownSerial Number0420104373Image-Specific Properties:Image OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution72 dpiVertical Resolution72 dpiImage Created2008:04:26 16:15:34Exposure Time1/100 secF-Numberf/9.0Exposure ProgramAperture PriorityISO Speed Rating400Lens Aperturef/9.0Exposure Bias0 EVFlashNo Flash, CompulsoryFocal Length55.00 mmColor Space InformationsRGBImage Width3888Image Height2592RenderingNormalExposure ModeAutoScene Capture TypeStandardExposure ModeAv-PriorityFocus TypeAutoMetering ModeCenter-WeightedSharpnessUnknownSaturationNormalContrastUnknownShooting ModeManualImage SizeLargeFocus ModeOne-ShotDrive ModeSingleFlash ModeOffCompression SettingFineMacro ModeNormalSubject Distance0.760 mWhite BalanceAutoExposure Compensation3Sensor ISO Speed224Camera Actuations-234487584Color Matrix34
>> Anonymous
In manual focus SLRs, you try to get the split images in the center to join seamlessly and the surrounding area to get sharp.

In rangefinders, you align two overlapping pictures (sometimes in the middle of the viewfinder, sometimes you have to look in a separate eyepiece for that, depends on the construction).
Because you don't look through the lens when using a rangefinder camera, the viewfinder image doesn't change when you mount different lenses. Thus, the viewfinder has framing lines that show you which part of the image you see will be recorded on film when you use a 35mm lens, a 50mm lens, a 85mm lens etc.
>> Anonymous
Ah, so I wasn't imagining things when I thought my SLR did the same thing. Too bad it's not one of those that runs without batteries.

Never used a rangefinder.
>> Anonymous
So I felt adventurous and took the lens off. I couldn't see the mirror so I pulled it down with my finger and tada, viewfinder is lit up!

Hope I didn't break it.
>> Anonymous
Oh wow, this thing is huge. Puts my DSLR to shame.

There's one big circle and one with diagonal lines going through it, and the middle part that's split in half.

Shutter speed is on the right side.

This is awesome.
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>172493
>>172495
You've got a Nikon FG, which uses a battery for most of its shutter speeds, but not *all* of them. There's an M90 and a B shutter speed that work without any battery power whatsoever.

The "Mirror flipped up and stuck there" is a symptom of a dead battery. Just switch the shutter to M90 or B and it'll flip back down without you having to risk breaking it by sticking your fingers in there.
>> Anonymous
>>172497
I shat bricks at the viewfinder size when I got my FG after using mostly 4/3 cameras.
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>172499
My first SLR was a Minolta SR-T-SC II. I didn't much notice the smallness of the DSLR viewfinder until after I'd had mine for a while because I was too happy with the ZOMFGSHINY for a long time after getting it.
>> Anonymous
>>172498

OH SNAP! Thank you. It works now.

Testing with the 28mm, 50mm and some off brand 35-200mm with a 1:3.7 macro and that is push/pull lulz.

What's M90 and B mode?

Also, the left knob, I can switch the I'm guessing is exposure compensation part, +2 to -2 but what about the ISO part? I can't turn it that way.
>> Anonymous
>>172504
M90 = manual 1/90 second exposure, works without battery
B = bulb exposure, shutter stays open as long as you hold the shutter release
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>172504
>What's M90 and B mode?
M90: Mechanical, 1/90th of a second. Basically, it's a fully mechanical mode put on there for emergencies if you need to get the shot but your batteries just died.

B: Bulb. Holds the shutter open for as long as the button is pressed.

Incidentally, this camera uses run-of-the-mill every day alkalines, so it should be trivial to get batteries for it at your local Radio Shack. Size is whatever Radio Shack sells compatible with Sanyo LR44s.

(In an amazing display of luck for you, I have an FG, its batteries recently died, and I had one of the dead ones sitting on my keyboard to check)

>Also, the left knob, I can switch the I'm guessing is exposure compensation part, +2 to -2 but what about the ISO part? I can't turn it that way.
Yeah, that's exposure compensation. ISO basically is to tell your camera's light meter what the ISO of the film you've loaded is. I forget how to change it, but I recall it's pretty easy when you know which button to press or thing to pull on or whatever it uses. I can check on my FG when I get home.
>> Anonymous
Oh, man. Now I know what they mean 50mm = human vision and how bright it is.

It's a bitch to focus manually though.

I'm rolling the exposure lever thing and clicking the shutter, it's loud and it works. Will it break without film?
>> Anonymous
>>172510
yes, film magically keeps the camera from breaking itself
>> Anonymous
>>172512

Is that sarcasm? I hope it is, it's just so damn cool to click the shutter. I did it like 20 times already.

This is awesome. I have it around my neck right now.
>> Anonymous
>>172504
>Also, the left knob, I can switch the I'm guessing is exposure compensation part, +2 to -2 but what about the ISO part? I can't turn it that way

To change exposure compensation, push the little button next to the dial, then rotate it.
To change ISO, pull the wheel upwards and rotate it.

Also remember that after you load the film, the FG won't meter (and will just flash two middle LEDs) until you wind the film leader, which requires taking 2 blank shots.
>> Anonymous
>>172520To change ISO, pull the wheel upwards and rotate it.

That works. Hard to figure out without a manual.
>> Anonymous
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Even in 1984, black cameras > silver cameras
>> Anonymous
I have the chrome version.

I feel like one of those silver Rebel douches. ;_;

zOMG ULTRON lens
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>172529
I also have the chrome version, but FUCK YEAH SILVER.
>> Anonymous
>>172530
Quit pretending, we all know you regret buying that silver Rebel.
>> Anonymous
So with the 50mm, when focusing at far distances, is it normal that the center part is weird looking?

Like, everything is focused but the absolute middle part is like, blurry or something.
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>172531
You're just jealous 'cause my camera's sparklier than yours.

One of these days, I'm gonna bling this mother out with glitter paint and stick on fake jewels and shit.
>> Anonymous
>>172533
Uh, I don't remember it being blurry, but my eyesight is far from perfect and I can't check it now 'cause it's night here.
>> Anonymous
>>172538

Hmm, well I'm focused at infinity, everything looks focused. I'm looking through my window.

And the blurry center only happens if I move around, not sure what causes it. Looks fine on a car, looks weird on another or on a wall.

It's only the center circle.
>> Anonymous
>>172541

Oh lulz, they're my blinds.

facepalm
>> Anonymous
>>172545
lol
>> Anonymous
As fun as this is, I still prefer my 30D.

Although it would be AWESOME if I could get a 28/30mm for it and a large bright viewfinder.

Got no money for a lens and DSLR viewfinder sucks. :/
>> Anonymous
I'm putting this thing back in storage.

Do I leave the mirror down/viewfinder clear or do I put it back up/viewfinder blocked?

It's been up/blocked for the past 20 years.
>> Serenar !m827jEgWi.
>>172639
nooooo don't do it

Leave the mirror down, with the speed set to B. Apparently that's the best way to avoid stressing the springs.
>> Anonymous
>>172697Leave the mirror down, with the speed set to B. Apparently that's the best way to avoid stressing the springs.

o_O? So mirror down/viewfinder working?

Seems like the "default" position is mirror up/viewfinder blocked no? Because there's spring tension to bring it back up.
>> Anonymous
>>172697
>>172699
Any quality camera will not be harmed by storage with springs under tension. Properly tempered springs made from quality steel won't lose their temper during any of our lifetimes. All that stuff about storing your camera with the shutter cocked causing problems is propagated by people who have never tried it and don't know anything about mechanics.

Do not put the camera back in storage. Use it. It's far from being a "collector" camera anyway, so there is no excuse to shelve it. Using it is the best thing for it anyway, sitting on a shelf does more harm to the mechanics of a camera than regular use will.
>> Anonymous
Screw that, I'm not going start buying film for it. I've got a decent digital kit and I use that.

But good news about the spring though. It HAS been cocked for the past 20 years, true story.
>> Anonymous
One more thing.

My 30D's viewfinder is small, my friend's XT is even smaller. Are the 5D and 1Ds the same size and brightness as film SLRs?
>> Anonymous
>>172735
Decent digital kit, but that thing kinda works as a fucking awesome film kit. It's a different experience, I'd suggest you try it some time. I use both film and digital. Digital for work, film for fucking around, go figure.
>> Anonymous
>>172735
Then give it to someone who will use it. It's a shame to let a good user camera collect dust just because you're too lazy or cheap to use film.
>> Anonymous
>>172735
So you get all excited about it at the last minute and shit out?

Buy one roll of film and try it out. If you enjoy it this much, you'll probably take better photographs. People work the best with tools they like, as a general rule.
>> Anonymous
>>172530
>>172535
The new XSI comes in a silver body as well for some godforsaken reason. I think it's time for an upgrade.
>> Anonymous
Nope, I just found it randomly.

Yes, too cheap to buy film and too lazy to get it developed.

>>172741Decent digital kit, but that thing kinda works as a fucking awesome film kit.

Every dollar I spend on it, I would rather spend on my other camera. ;_;
>> Anonymous
>>172738
http://danny.id.au/photography/equipment/dslr-viewfinder-sizes.html
>> Anonymous
>>172752

So the 1Ds III is still only 76% of the size of a 35mm SLR? What the deuce.
>> Anonymous
>>172760
No, it means that when you look through the viewfinder, with a 50mm lens attached, you're seeing everying 76% of the size it is if you were just looking at it.

Lots of fast SLR lenses- the 58/1.2 Noct Nikkor, for instance- were made slightly longer than 50mm so they would show a 1:1 view for better focusing on one of the company's models.

A 68.8mm lens would give a 1:1 view on the 1Ds. So it's still not stellar. Thank AF for that; now that finders are only for composition, they can be much smaller than they were and most users will still be happy. Solution for us manual focusers? Magnifying eyepieces.
>> Anonymous
>>172766
hmm, how does focal length have anything to do with all this? youd see the same portion of the frame, at the same magnification. a longer lens might make something show as 1:1 if it were at 50mm, but how does that help at all since the lens isnt 50mm?
>> Serenar !m827jEgWi.
>>172717
That's the better-safe-than-sorry kinda thing I hear every so often from old camera collectors. I guess you're right - these things are built to take much more than a couple decades doing nothing.

OP, fuck you. If you won't use it, at least sell it and hope it reaches a better home. At least you could make some money off it that way.
>> Anonymous
>>172770
It doesn't. But when you're shooting at f/1.2, being off 50mm by 8 (or 5 or 2 or 10 or whatever)mm is less of a concern than being off on focus.

Plus, 50mm is nothing inherently special. 43mm is the "true normal." Only reason lenses are 50mm was that when 135 film was just taking off, it was much easier to make a good lens a little longer, and it stuck.
>> Anonymous
>>172785
ok then whats the point of mentioning stuff with focal lengths. if you are trying to take the same picture with different focal lengths, youll move closer/farther and everything youre trying to focus will be the same size anyway.
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>172792
We're talking about viewfinder magnification. Viewfinder magnification can only be discussed in reference to a given focal length because you have to take into account the magnification of the lens before you can take into account the magnification of the viewfinder.
>> Anonymous
>>172777

Wow, people get offended easily here.

These things go for $20 on eBay and there are millions of them. It's worth more keeping it.

Saging my own thread lulz.
>> Serenar !m827jEgWi.
>>172831
Well, it's either a perfectly good camera rotting away in some faggot's attic, or a perfectly good camera in a grateful user's hands and twenty bucks for said faggot. Who wouldn't want free money?
>> Anonymous
>>172822
but why? as far as i understand its talking about the magnification of the viewfinder in reference to the actual size of the sensor and a 35mm frame. so no matter what focal length of lens youre using the viewfinder is still going to still have the same size image, youll just see something different obviously.
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>172912
No, it's talking about the magnification of the viewfinder in reference to a 50mm lens' field of view.
>> Anonymous
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>>172912
A viewfinder with 1.0x magnification means that if you mount a 50mm lens on the camera, the view in the viewfinder will be identical to what you see with the naked eye, just as if you were looking through a rectangular hole with no lenses at all. The magnification is usually calculated for a 50mm lens independent of the sensor/focusing screen size, the latter only affects the size of the "hole" you're looking through.

See pic for examples
>> Anonymous
>>172862

ROFL

Way to get your panties in a bunch. I'll keep it in my closet and let it gather fungus for the next 20 year.

Take that. (faggot)