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Anonymous
So I was at the store looking at the Digital Rebel line and I found an XT (350D) and it was pretty shitty in comparison to the XSi (450D). Plus, I'd have to buy a 30 dollar compact flash card for the XT while the XSi takes SD. Not a big deal but it's something to consider.

But my main question is is the viewfinder clarity affected by the lens? I mean the 450's viewfinder was so much bigger but also much clearer. It had the new 18-55 IS lens on, so maybe that made a difference. I'm was thinking about getting an XT with the new IS lens but now that I've compared it to the XSi, I'm kind of reluctant.

Also, fuck you Amazon.
>> Anonymous
Second hand 30d is cheaper than new xsi. It has a bigger brighter viewfinder too.
>> Anonymous
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>> But my main question is is the viewfinder clarity affected by the lens?

yes but both 18-55 and 18-55 IS are the same

the 450d has a bigger viewfinder but i wouldn't call it brighter
>> Anonymous
>>181611
I'm not looking for a 30D and I'm not going to buy a used body. That's just me though.

Maybe the store bodies for the XT and XTi were old (the lens for the XT had cracks in its casing- tells you about the quality of the lens) so maybe the viewfinders were dirty, but I couldn't believe how hard the viewfinder was to use.

Also, I took some test photos on my SD card, so I'll post some of those later.
>> Anonymous
if i can focus manually with a reversed lens on a 400d, i sure as fuck hope you can focus manually on a normal lens

i have very bad eyes
>> Anonymous
Also, someone here once said that the image quality was better on the 350D rather than the 400D due to less megapixels for the sensor. I doubt this, but is there any advantage of a 350D over a 400D or a 450D besides price?
>> Anonymous
Canon is about to introduce a $200 rebate on the 40D (making it about $900)

If you can afford the extra $100, its build quality is the best of any consumer-grade Canon.
>> Anonymous
>>181785

sauce: http://www.adorama.com/catalog.tpl?op=NewsDesk_Internal&article_num=051208-3
>> Anonymous
and then he winds up with a 40D body with no lens

gg
>> Anonymous
>>181824

the fucking body for the XSi is $800 as it is as evidenced by OP pic. He'll need a lens for that, and they both take the same lenses.

He'll still only end up spending $100 more for the 40D, retard.
>> Anonymous
Canon Digital Rebel XSi 12MP Digital SLR Camera with EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS Lens (Black)

Price: $869.90

OHHHHHH SIIIIIICK BURNNN
>> sage !i/euDJmWr2
>>181870
...it's an 18-55 kit lens, and that's still only $31 less than the other body. Pass plx.
>> Anonymous
>>182052

18-55 IS is good for the price

40d + 18-55 IS would be whatever the 40D costs + $175
>> Anonymous
>>182052
That's the lens that I'll get even if I get a 40D (which I won't, because I don't need it and it's too big and heavy). The advantages of the D40 are not worth it for me, so even if it were the same price as an XSi, I would still be hesitant to buy it over the XT.
>> Anonymous
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>>182066That's the lens that I'll get even if I get a 40D (which I won't, because I don't need it and it's too big and heavy).

you see that small thing on the right? that's a 18-55

i lold
>> Anonymous
>>182066

Are you OP? That's an insanely high price for the XT.

They go for $450-500 with the kit lens.
>> Anonymous
>>182067
I meant the 40D was big an heavy, not the lens.
>>182068
I meant even if the 40D was the same price as the 450D, I would still rather buy the 350D for half the price. Right now I'm debating on whether the extra money is worth it for the 400D and the 450D over the 350D.
>> Anonymous
>>182082

XT vs. XTi, I would use the saved money for a 50mm 1.8

XT vs. XSi, if I had the cash to spare, XSi no questions.
>> Anonymous
>>182085
They are both around $160 apart (body + 450D kit lens). ($890, $725, $560) Add in a compact flash for the 350-400D and the difference between the 400 and 450 gets narrower (I have an SD card that should do fine).

But besides the SD card slot, I don't see a big upgrade with the 450 over the 400.
>> Anonymous
>>182100
Fuck- I thought Amazon raised the price for the 18-55mm IS for a second, but there is just some faggotry going on. It's still $175.
>> Anonymous
>>182100But besides the SD card slot, I don't see a big upgrade with the 450 over the 400.

14-bit A/D, 3.5 FPS but same buffer, larger viewfinder, better grip, 3.0" LCD screen, Live View, spot meter.

Generally makes for a better experience.
>> Anonymous
>>182111
I really want DPreview to do a review on it (are they going to?) so I can get the timing and noise improvements (if any). I've read the preview a few times and it looks sound, although I'm not sure if I like the control changes/larger screen. Seemed almost too big when I handled it.
>> Anonymous
>>182119

lolwut

Is this your first camera or what? The 450D is more than enough for any beginner.

Timing? 3.5 FPS, 6 RAW, 53 JPG. Intermittent shot after that.

Noise? It's on par with what we've been used to from Canon.

Stop worrying about these things and just buy one.
>> Anonymous
>>182125
It's the price difference that I'm worried about. I'm sure the 350/400/450 are all phenomenal and I'm trying to justify spending the extra money.
>> Anonymous
Then buy a 400D and you have enough cash left for a 50mm 1.8.

Done.
>> Anonymous
>>182132
I'll mull over some more. I think I won't waste money on the f/1.8 and save up for the much nicer f/1.4. I don't know though.
>> sage !i/euDJmWr2
Honestly...if you're buying a body and a lens seperately and you're buying the fucking 18-55 lens...you're doing it wrong. All wrong.
>> Anonymous
>>182178

Have you used the 18-55 IS?

It's a bargain for the performance you get from $175. This isn't the old 18-55.
>> sage !i/euDJmWr2
>>182181
Well, considering my 400D came with one and I tend to use the NiftyFifty over it, why yes I certainly have.

And no, it's not a "bad" lens, but it's not a very rad lens either. Buying an 18-55 as your standard lens when you have other, better options is just poor judgement. It's okay and good enough for me to use if I just have to have a little zoom, but I wouldn't pay for one.
>> sage !i/euDJmWr2
you could, however, disregard anything I say. I don't like zooms much so I'm biased.
>> Anonymous
>>182205

18-55 IS, with Image Stabilizer. The 400D is sold with a 18-55.

>> Buying an 18-55 as your standard lens when you have other, better options is just poor judgement.

Again, 18--55 IS not 18-55. Even IF you're talking about the 18-55 IS, please point us to a better standard zoom option for $175.

It's a more than decent lens for beginners.
>> sage !i/euDJmWr2
>>182208
My 400D wasn't originally bought as a kit...I bought it second hand. Regardless...

See;
>>182207

I don't think a beginner needs to start with a zoom. They teach a lot of bad habits. I'd personally take the NiftyFifty over the 18-55 IS any day.
>> Anonymous
>>182228
disagree. i might as well just have a 50mm. i rarely use any other lens.
>> Anonymous
Or you can get one because it's almost free and see what you want afterwards or keep it as a decent standard zoom.

Also:

>>182132Then buy a 400D and you have enough cash left for a 50mm 1.8.

But having just a 50mm on crop is retarded.
>> Anonymous
>>182229

Hey, if you just want to stick to a single fixed lens all the time, that's your problem.

In before, you learn to compose/you learn to visualize/you can be an artfag like me too speech.
>> Anonymous
>>182230
disagree. i might as well just have a 50mm. i rarely use any other lens.
>> Anonymous
>>182232
actually i use it because its light, its fast, and i like the bokeh. i like taking portraits mostly, so its all i need. it depends on what OP wants to do.
>> Anonymous
>>182234it depends on what OP wants to do.

Do what every beginner ought to do?

Stick with the kit lens and buy a 50mm and play with it for a few months.

Getting the kit and the 50mm is well within his budget. There is ABSOLUTELY no reason not to have it unless he has a bigger budget for a better one.
>> sage !i/euDJmWr2
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>>182230
it's not that bad if you learn how to use your feet. Besides, it's not like a NiftyFifty breaks the bank...it's not _that_ hard to pick up another more flexible prime as well.

Also, it depends on what you're shooting. If you do a fuckton of portraits or single-object shots like I do, then a 50mm is just about perfect.

Picture semi-related. Random snapshot of my granny on Mother's Day. Taken with a NiftyFifty.

Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeCanonCamera ModelCanon EOS DIGITAL REBEL XTiPhotographerunknownMaximum Lens Aperturef/1.8Image-Specific Properties:Horizontal Resolution240 dpiVertical Resolution240 dpiImage Created2008:05:15 00:36:00Exposure Time1/320 secF-Numberf/2.8Exposure ProgramManualISO Speed Rating400Lens Aperturef/2.8Exposure Bias0 EVMetering ModeAverageFlashNo Flash, CompulsoryFocal Length50.00 mmRenderingNormalExposure ModeManualWhite BalanceAutoScene Capture TypeStandard
>> Anonymous
>>182243
you calling it niftyfifty all the time makes me rage like the 5 dollar footlong subway commercials do.
>> sage !i/euDJmWr2
>>182232
0/10
>> Anonymous
>>182243it's not that bad if you learn how to use your feet.

80mm indoors? You're pretty much fucked for anything other than shoulder headshots.

I'm not saying not to get the 50mm. I'm saying it's retarded not to get a kit lens.
>> Anonymous
>>182245

I'm sorry if I desribed you pretty damn accurately.
>> sage !i/euDJmWr2
>>182244
NIFTYFIFTY NIFTYFIFTY NIFTYFIFTY NIFTYFIFTY NIFTYFIFTY NIFTYFIFTY NIFTYFIFTY NIFTYFIFTY NIFTYFIFTY NIFTYFIFTY NIFTYFIFTY NIFTYFIFTY NIFTYFIFTY NIFTYFIFTY NIFTYFIFTY NIFTYFIFTY NIFTYFIFTY NIFTYFIFTY NIFTYFIFTY NIFTYFIFTY

>>182247
where, exactly, did an 80mm come into the equation?

>>182248
You weren't even replying to me, lol. You zeroed out because you assume caring about composition and visualization is only for artfags.

...Granted, I am a rather artfaggy bitch.
>> Anonymous
>>182244
5 dollah, 5 dollah, 5 dollah foooootlonnnng. 5 dollah, 5 dollah, 5 dollah foooootlonnnng.
>> Anonymous
>>182251
OH MY GOD THAT COMMERCIAL JUST CAME ON AS I STARTED READING YOUR COMMENT WHAT THE FUCK
>> Anonymous
>>182250

A 50mm is 80mm on crop. If you were using a 50mm on a 5D/1Ds/D3/film, it would make sense.

80mm is extremely tight indoors.

The reply works because what else will you say in favor of the 50mm?

Trains the eye? Helps composition? That's pretty much what you can come up with, innit?
>> sage !i/euDJmWr2
>>182252
Subway is now announcing their new 5 dollar footlong meal!

Subwayyyy--eat fresh!
>> sage !i/euDJmWr2
>>182253
in that case, then...learn to fuckin' compose if all you can get out of the 50mm indoors are headshots. It's really, really not that hard to do assuming indoors to you means a room larger than your small living room.

What do I have to say for it? Uh...okay, let's see...it's small and light, it's cheap enough that you don't have to worry about it that much, it's extremely sharp for being a $90 lens, and LOL IT TRAINS THE EYE AND HELPS COMPOSITION.

It's really loud, sure, but I'm willing to trade discreetness for a lens that feels comfortable to me.
>> Anonymous
>>182255It's really, really not that hard to do assuming indoors to you means a room larger than your small living room.

Awesome, so we have to ASSUME we have the room to compose. Got it.

>> What do I have to say for it? Uh...okay, let's see...it's small and light, it's cheap enough that you don't have to worry about it that much, it's extremely sharp for being a $90 lens, and LOL IT TRAINS THE EYE AND HELPS COMPOSITION.

>> I'm not saying not to get the 50mm. I'm saying it's retarded not to get a kit lens.

But hey, you admitted to being a 50mm art fag. So that's something.
>> sage !i/euDJmWr2
>>182263
Because the focal length of the lens you use most often is what makes one an artfag, right guise? Guise?

>>182263
Yeah, we can assume you have room to compose. I don't know about you, but the majority of the pictures I take aren't taken in a 12x14 room full of people. But hey, maybe we're different. I just know that I've very rarely encounted a situation where the 50mm was absolutely impossible to utilize. You're acting like the majority of pictures are taken in those specific conditions.

And I'm not saying not to get an 18-55 all together, I'm saying that it's not worth going out of your way to buy one after you've bought a body alone.

TL;DR
My suggestion was to get the 40D for a measley $100 more than the XSi and go Nifty on that. The XSi that includes a 18-55 IS is only $31 cheaper than the 40D. For that price difference, the 40D is a much better deal.
>> Anonymous
If the op is still here....
I would go with the xti with the 18-55
just do that and save some money for other lens down the road
it will make you happy
>> sage !i/euDJmWr2
>>182277
I also wouldn't recommend against this either. The 400D is a perfectly acceptable camera and the price gap is larger in that direction, go get some good lenses.
>> Anonymous
>> I don't like zooms
>> NiftyFifty
>> I am a rather artfaggy bitch.
>> NiftyFifty
>> NiftyFifty
>> NiftyFifty

I'm sorry but people who talk like that are wannabe artfags running around with their "NiftyFifty" making instantart.

>> Yeah, we can assume you have room to compose.

Assuming makes an ass out of you but not me.

>> I don't know about you, but the majority of the pictures I take aren't taken in a 12x14 room full of people. But hey, maybe we're different. I just know that I've very rarely encounted a situation where the 50mm was absolutely impossible to utilize. You're acting like the majority of pictures are taken in those specific conditions.

Again, >> I'm not saying not to get the 50mm. I'm saying it's retarded not to get a kit lens.

Why limit you to a single focal length which is cumbersome to use indoors when you can have that AND a zoom with standard focal lengths.

>> My suggestion was to get the 40D

>>182066That's the lens that I'll get even if I get a 40D (which I won't, because I don't need it and it's too big and heavy). The advantages of the D40 are not worth it for me, so even if it were the same price as an XSi, I would still be hesitant to buy it over the XT.
>> Anonymous
>>182281

Which brings us ALL the way back back to my post here:

>>182132Then buy a 400D [with kit lens] and you have enough cash left for a 50mm 1.8.
>> sage !i/euDJmWr2
>>182288
A lens's focal length has nothing to do with the moronic concept of insta-art. You're frankly an idiot.

As for the assumptions, you're assuming as much as I am. You're just assuming the opposite circumstances.

Disliking zooms has nothing to do with art faggotry.

And finally...the "artfaggy bitch" part is a joke because I go to an art college.