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Advice? Anonymous
So I'm a starting photographer trying to figure out which camera to buy. A friend of mine, and excellent photographer I might add, uses only Canons and currently uses a D5... I was under the impression that Nikon's tend to be the best and was leaning towards a D300.

My price range is no more than $2000.

So my question to you is what would you suggest or what do you use? I need something that's going to a) take great pictures obviously b) last me a long time c) have a great battery life and d) be a good starter camera for me.

Thanks in advance! ^.^
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>> Einta !!MWv3ICYobCM
If you're spending $2k, don't get a D300. It's too close to that $2k, so you won't be able to afford lenses.

Buy a D90, if you're Nikon biased. Buy a 40D if you're Canon biased, although one should wait for the 50D to come out (since it's been announced) to see if 40D prices drop.

The rest of your money should go toward
1. Lenses
2. Tripod (if you don't have one)
>> heavyweather !4AIf7oXcbA
Get the cheapest possible camera body. Used Rebel XT? Get it. Used D40? Get it. Get a 50 1.8. Take pictures. Decide what you need to upgrade to after taking pictures for a while.
>> eagle
what i use? canon 7 mostly. i dont like how digital bodys become "obsolete" after a few years. i also have an AE1-p (great starter camera) and a 650 si.
>> Anonymous
Well I've actually found some good deals on the D300 that run about $2000 with a lense that's why I was thinking about that.

I'd rather get a camera that I'm not going to want to get rid of and upgrade in a year or two. I can always buy bigger and better lenses if I like my camera.

I'll definitely look into all the suggestions so far though. I'd love to get a used camera but I'm just not really sure where to get one. The town I live in wouldn't have anywhere to buy anything used like that and I don't really trust ebay to send me what I want.
>> eagle
>>247818
used are easy to find
KEH, fred miranda, adorama has a used section
>> heavyweather !4AIf7oXcbA
Fred Miranda is bullshit, you've gotta pay for the privilege to post on the forums and message sellers. Fuck that noise.

keh.com is THE way to go. So cheap. So quality. Don't be afraid of buying their BGN stuff, every single lens I got from them was BGN and they're all perfect.

But seriously dude, the camera body doesn't matter. As long as it's 6 megapixels, you're in business. The kit lenses aren't even that bad if you stop down to f/8. When you can't stop down, you've got the nifty fifty. You could be in and out for less than $500. Figure out what focal lengths you like working with, and if you're still really into it, then get your big man kit. But when you're just starting out, I feel like these awesome latest dSLRs are complete overkill. Get yourself a K1000 before you take on a Nikon F6, your wallet will thank you.
>> heavyweather !4AIf7oXcbA
>>247816
Tell me you have the f/.95

If not, why?
>> $19.99 !OSYhGye6hY
>>247833
see
>>247325
>> Anonymous
>>247816
Do you have a place where you post your photos? I want to see stuff taken with it!
>> heavyweather !4AIf7oXcbA
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>>247835

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>> Anonymous
Random question.... I spoke with my friend about why he uses canon only and he claims that most rental places only deal with canons.

So do you guys find that to be true? Or do you even really use rental equipment? This guy does band and individual photography and rents a lot of his lighting equipment... I'm wanting to get into the same field but probably won't for awhile so should I even be worried about what rental places deal with?
>> Anonymous
Don't know why there are still biased people, Canon biased are mainly disgruntled ex-Nikon users or was just a sheep and followed what everybody tells them that Canon is great and all that.

I actually use both, D3s, D300s, F100s, F5s, but I only have a 40D, 50mm f1.4 and a 580ex2 from Canon as toys.
>> heavyweather !4AIf7oXcbA
>>247849
Not true in my burg. I can't see why they wouldn't carry both in this day and age. Maybe a few years ago when Nikon was hopelessly outgunned, but they've played the game pretty well and have made a pretty good comeback. The system is perfect for a lot of people, many of them journalists. Seems like it's almost a fifty fifty split now, though I think I may have seen more black lenses at the Olympics than white, surprisingly.

I think it's mainly that they're all hopeless whores for the 14-24 and shot Nikon back in the film days.
>> Anonymous
I'm not biased towards anything. I asked opinions because I don't know anything about it. I was under the impression that nikon was the best in the field but obviously that's not really so anymore...


Thanks everyone for the advice though... I've got at least somewhat more of an idea of what I should look for now. It's still going to be a few months before I get anything and I'll of course do research on each specific camera and find out what I think is best for me... But since I know nothing about them starting out every little piece of information is helpful.

=D
>> Anonymous
i work at a camera shop and we deal with nikon, canon and pentax primarily, so whatever you choose is ok with basically any reputable camera place.
a d300 has a steep learning curve if you've never used a dslr before. even the 40d does, and i assume the 50d will be the same.

if you want something solid that will last you a while and be a good second body for future use, try the canon XTi or XSi, both fairly solid amateur dslrs.
if you want nikon, go for a d40 or d40x or even a d60. the new d90 isn't too shabby though but if its menus are anything like the d80, it's completely illogical (at least for me). if they improved the menus on the d90, go for that.
other than that, i'd stay away from a d300 if you haven't used dslrs yet.
>> Anonymous
So I'm thinking now either a Canon 50D or Rebel XSi or Nikon D80 or D90.

With that 50D I'm really liking the 15.1 MP although it's a bit pricier than the Rebel XSi...

As for the Nikon, I looked at the D40 but just comparing the D40 to a D80 I know I can't settle for the D40. The Nikon D80 and D90 seem pretty close to the same so I'd probably stick with the D80 just for price purposes.

I understand that learning to use one of these is gonna kinda suck since I'm taking the step from absolutely no knowledge to a much more advanced camera but I'm in some photography classes and I've got a teacher that will sit down with me and figure out the features... What I can't learn there can always be learned online... Then of course just by going out and playing with it... I learn more doing that than anything else anyway...

So thanks everyone... It'll be a few months but as soon as I get it I'm sure I'll go picture crazy and post some up here for all to see.
=]
>> Serenar !m827jEgWi.
>>247934
The megapixel increase is the very last thing you want to care about when comparing the 50D to a lower level camera. Build quality, shooting speed, and manual control are the advantages of upgrading to an xxD. You will probably never need the extra megapixels, as they only really come into play when you print megahuge.
>> else !L6xabslN96
>>247814
this.

but it seems OP is a richfag anyways so go for the D300 with kit lens and give it away when you're bored of photography.
>> Anonymous
>>247934

Get an XSi or XTi with a 50mm lens. Learn on that. When you're done learning and want to upgrade, sell the body for 2/3 of what you bought it for, keep the lens, and enjoy your new camera that you actually know how to use, having only paid like $200 for the privilege.
>> Anonymous
If your getting into Photography and don't know shit, If its Canon your getting into then start at the Rebel line, upgrade to the xxD line (which is where I'm at now) then after that its up to you if you want a Full Frame camera.
>> Anonymous
>>248158

Thanks asshole but I'm not rich... I'm actually using my leftover school loan money to buy this camera which is why I have a limit... If I were rich do you really think I'd limit myself? I don't get bored of what I'm passionate to do and this is what I intend to do the rest of my life. Believe me I very much so wish I was rich and could buy things on whims like this and throw them away when I'm bored but that's not the case whatsoever.

>>248026
Makes sense... Still love the huge prints though but I'll definitely keep that in consideration... And before all is said and done I'm going to sit down with a photographer or two with a list of features of every camera and have them tell me which would be best for me.

>>248169
>>248173
You guys seemed to miss the fact that I don't want to have to upgrade my camera body in a few months. I don't have that kind of money to just throw away $200 and say, "Oh well I learned how to use that camera." Learning will come with time and these photography classes I'm taking.

As far as lenses go if I'm lucky I may be able to afford a new one every sixish months after this one huge spending spree I'm going on anyway much less a completely new camera even if I can get what I paid for the original camera body. Which by the way I probably won't want to get rid of my old camera anyway... it's always nice to have a back up.


I wouldn't say I don't know shit about photography just don't really know much about nice cameras seeing as how I've been working with a piece of shit sony point and shoot for the last couple of years.
>> Anonymous
>>248224

This>>248173and I'm not saying upgrade in a couple of months, more like spend two years with the Rebel camera (assuming you go Canon). It'll probably feel long in the tooth when compared whats out then. Definitely get an XSi.

If your sure you'll stick with it, you can get a 40D for like $900 now (I think its just the body though).
>> Anonymous
>>248233
I just don't think I can settle for something like that... especially not when I have the money now and if I wait I won't later. I understand what you're saying but when you're on a budget like mine it makes more sense (to me anyway) to get what you want in a couple years and learn it... you'd be surprised what time and playing around can teach you. =P
>> Anonymous
>>248169
>[crop body]
>50mm lens

Lol wut? Come on, it's ridiculous for most people to use only a medium tele, and a pretty short one at that.

A 28mm lens would be a much better suggestion.
>> heavyweather !4AIf7oXcbA
>>248273
I shot with a 50 on a crop body for like six months when I was starting out. It's a fine focal length. Teles are easier to compose with anyways. It better suited my comfort level in street photography back then too.
>> Anonymous
You'd be surprised what starting small & learning your craft can teach you, too.

OP sounds like an arrogant poser who buys ultra-expensive toys to show off for a few months, then lets them gather dust when the novelty wears off.

OP-Poser is "in school" but "won't have money in a couple of years"? What are you majoring in, modern Burmese poli-sci? Generally most people get out of school and get jobs, that tend to pay slightly more than pennies a day. Smart people can then manage that paltry paycheck into better options.

Ignore the advice here all you want, but the consistent thread across any brand/model info is: buy less camera and better lenses. Period. End of story. Anybody who respects the art of photography will tell you the same thing.

As for the 15 megapixel overkill... If you saved the money you'd otherwise spend on your mega-huge-prints for a couple of years, upgrading your camera becomes much easier.

Until you've used a camera for a while, you have no idea about what you really like, need, or want out of it. There are differences between the Nikon and the Canon that are practically imperceptible until you're out in the field, thinking about your shot. Camera shape, size, weight, menu design, feature accessibility... As you learn to shoot, you'll learn your preferences and needs. Until then, a good lens will give you markedly better results, and can be carried forward to your next camera.

Your original request is for a good starter camera, and then you proceed to ignore every piece of universally supported starter-camera advice, because you want to spend $2000 on a camera.

It sounds like you just want some big penis-substitution tool to take pretend-artsy photos of dumb college girls. And if you need to spend $2K to make that happen, you're a sad sack.
>> heavyweather !4AIf7oXcbA
>>248304
oh, dude. I think I love you.

whoooo aaaare yooou anoooon?
>> Anonymous
>>248304
I'm majoring in art actually. I've got my associates in CIS but decided I didn't really want to do that so I'm going back for Art and plan on doing photography strictly as soon as I get done with school.

And I haven't ignored any advice I've taken it all into consideration. I've already decided against what I was originally thinking of spending $2000 on the camera and buying a much cheaper camera and buying lenses with what I have left over. How is that ignoring anything? I've had plenty of advice on the camera and have four of the suggestions made here in mind. Hw is that ignore the advice?

And as for your comment about a penis substitution or whatever... sure I guess you could say that since I DON'T HAVE A PENIS!

First off dumbass you should learn whether or not your even talking to a guy before you start making comments like that. I am in fact a female and got into photography originally because of my photographer friend that I mentioned earlier. I've done photo shoots with him and was interested in modeling for a bit then decided that I'd much rather be behind the camera than in front of it.

Anyways for all of you that actually gave advice instead of bitching (probably because of jealousy that I've got a little money to spend on a decent camera), thank you very very much you really have helped out a lot. Like I said before I'll post some pictures that I take as soon as I get the camera in a few months.

Thanks again.
^.^
>> Anonymous
Ooooh... you're a girl! Not just a girl, but one who's done some modelling! And an art major! Well then I take all my criticism back, because that automatically makes you brilliantly overqualified to be a photographer.

What are you doing wasting your time in here, when there are so many sunsets and art-school friends smoking cigarettes in desperate need of being photographed? Go! Go! The world needs you!

Guess what, Arbus? You don't need a penis to be a tedious gearfag.

Glad to hear you're listening to reason, tho. Perhaps there's hope.
>> Einta !!MWv3ICYobCM
>>248317
Freud would love you.

Also, this is 4chan. Invoking or provoking the memes will only end badly.

Still, g'luck with the whole photography thing. One thing to note is that accessories get pricy hellafast. I'm looking at picking up a bit of location lighting, and even with the speedlites taken care of, it'll be $300+ at a minimum - and that's if I go cheap (yay 60" softlites on cheap AC stands?). I've probably spent triple on non-bodies than I have on bodies.
>> Anonymous
ITT: Measurebators
>> Mr. Higgzbuffonton !!Xsltv1VWxZT
>>248317
>And as for your comment about a penis substitution or whatever... sure I guess you could say that since I DON'T HAVE A PENIS!
>First off dumbass you should learn whether or not your even talking to a guy before you start making comments like that.

HAAHAA OMG I rofl'd... oh dear, oh my.
>> Anonymous
>>248335
I think I love you.

Good photographers spend twice as much on the lenses than they do on the body, and spend 3 times as much on the lighting as they do on the lenses.

Rebel XT + 17-55 2.8 + Alienbees blows the doors off of a 5D + 28-135 3.5-5.6.
>> Anonymous
>>248343

Thats actually a really good idea as a starting combination.

OP, you seem to be well stuck in the lie the the gear makes very much difference to the photgraphy. You should be primarily looking for ease of use and reliability, so you can keep photography fun and enjoyable. The pictures you get out the end are after all what you are intersted in (generally).Good Gear doesn't make good photos, it just means you can think less about gear/setup etc, and more about composition - subject matter etc, what I would consider to be the things that really matter.

Cameras like 350D's have reached rock bottom in price, like $250 for the bodies which isn't going to go down. I suggest you get one of these and the 17-55mm F2.8 (about a grand) and have a good play and keep it fun. If in a years time you are loving it and feel held back by the high iso or frame rate or small viewfinder of the 350d then by all means upgrade, but there isn't really many other valid reasons.

/rant
>> Serenar !m827jEgWi.
>>248359
Wow, seconding this. The XT is pretty much the best buy in cameras today, as long as you have a good used copy.

Also OP if you don't know shit about photography (by your own admission) then please reevaluate your constant worry about having to upgrade bodies a lot. If a camera was good enough for you to learn with, it wouldn't magically become unacceptable for shooting. Even if you suddenly had higher requirements, like if you got into shooting football games, you'd buy another body and still have full use of your previous camera - they don't suddenly stop taking pictures. But you probably won't have such high requirements anyways, and if you do it makes more sense to blow at least $2k, your entire current budget, on your next body after the XT (full frame woop woop)
>> Anonymous
>>248359

I agree. For a beginner, buying just the XT body and an L lens is so much win its not even funny. That particular L lens is supposed to be just as sharp as the Canon 50mm Primes too... which is woah for a zoom lens.

Do it op! Then get the 70-200 f/2.8 L when you want to fuck with better looking Portraiture (where you can completely isolate the subject with bokeh aka inta-art).
>> Anonymous
Advice to trump you all.

Don't ask 4Chan for advice. Consult DPReview if you really must have advice.

Other then that, spend on what makes you happy and then use the hell out of it. Most of what these folks have said is true, but in the end who are you really trying to satisfy?

Some people can make beautiful paintings with just one brush and a small selection of colors. Some of us pay people to paint for us. Don't be afraid to pay for a camera that you feel will make your life easier.
>> Anonymous
>>248328
lawl who ever said i was overqualified to be a photographer? I came here asking for advice... of course not only here. I expected quite a few people like you and whoever made the comment about provoking people like you... well that just makes this thread all that more interesting...
As for my art school friends and sunsets lol that was cute. It actually made me chuckle a bit.
Why exactly would I be a gearfag just because I do want a good camera? Because I don't want to go out and buy some piece of shit that won't really do me any good and end up having to get something different later? Because I want to be smart and get a good buy and something that will last me a long time? Because I do want to spend a little money on something I really want? Sure sounds like a gearfag to me.

>>248335
Oh I know it gets pricey... If it wasn't I'd have had a camera and more a long time ago... I'm aware that it's going to take a lot of saving up for me to get everything... Lighting will come way way later for me... I've got to get a camera and a few decent lenses and really get used to taking pictures and making sure my composition is good before I start spending money for things like lighting equipment.

>>248359
I'm not stuck in the gear nearly so much as you'd think... Granted this thread is all about gear because that's what I'm asking about. As far as good cameras and equipment I don't know anything really... That being said I do have my little point and shoot camera and I've made some decent images with it and I'm still learning the craft. When I started my pictures were nothing but average snapshots and now I have the nerve to call a few photos... Nothing stunning but definitely and upgrade from what I started at. Considering I want this to be my career at some point I want to get something good... I understand starting out small and working my way up and I'm doing so.
>> Anonymous
>>248380
Again I never said I don't know anything about photography... I don't know anything about the cameras and the equipment. I'm definitely not saying I'm a fucking genius photographer either because I'm not even close... I know at some point I'm going to want to upgrade the camera body... I'm not saying when because I honestly don't know but I'd much rather have it later than sooner. I understand that a camera doesn't just become unacceptable to work with I never said it did but there's nothing wrong with having the best you can have for as long as you can have it.

>>248428
Agreed and I suppose a lesson well learned. Although I did get a bit of really good advice surprisingly enough. o.O
>> fence !!POey2hdozCZ
>>248428

lurk moar. dpreview is a terrible website and the primary source of all the gear bullshit on the internet.

/p/ is a desert oasis of wonderful, obscure photo knowledge. for sure, there are many dslr kiddies and newfags, but there are also many hidden gems and truly knowledgeable people (des, serenar, ol-what's-his-shit...)
>> Anonymous
>>248455

no fence, you are the dslr kiddy
>> fence !!POey2hdozCZ
>>248467

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
ooo
>> Celotil !AN26.8FkH6
I've been looking over the latest cameras to come from Canon and Nikon, the EOS 50D and the D90, thinking about what to buy later when I've outgrown my S5.

I won't be buying anything tomorrow, but that's the way I keep up to date - just keep checking shit out and researching what I'd buy tomorrow if I had to.

At this point I'd go with a D90 (slightly larger sensor and lower MP than the 50D, so there's lower pixel density and less chance of fuzziness purely from the sensor), with either the 18-105mm kit lens, or an 18-55mm and a 55-200mm pair, with maybe a prime as well (I need to read more about primes to fully understand them).

The comments posted to Amazon on each product - minus the D90 for the moment - are generally informative, and sometimes funny as well.

My only beef is that I can't buy from Amazon - they won't deliver cameras or camera accessories (except for lens caps) to Australia.
>> Anonymous
>>248641
The single thing that dpreview is actually good for is comparing things like noise levels at various ISOs. That's a function of the body, and it does change with each model and each refresh, so it's good to have those comparisons out there. That said, just wait and see what the samples look like when they get their reviews of the 50D and the D90 up. Canon has historically had better s/n ratios at both low and high ISO equivalencies, and it's only with the D3 and that series that Nikon has pulled ahead. Now that Canon has their new generation chip out in the 50D they may well take the lead again.
>> Anonymous
>>248647
dpreview is full of people that like to talk about taking pictures, rather than people who actually take pictures.
>> soulr !lK4GD5SleY
>>248659
And /p/ is what? lol.
>> Anonymous
>>248662
full of people who make fun of people who talk about taking pictures
>> Anonymous
gu to the shop and try out the different cams.
i use a eos and i really dont like the handling of the nikons.
>> Anonymous
>>249812

What he said, and try to figure out what kind of photography you're into. Did you start so you can be a professional or a hobbyist? What fills that photographic gap for you? Is it landscape, events, studio, fine art, B&W, what? Would that certain form of photography require you to buy that D300? Yeah sure, you can buy it, but if you can get the same results with a cheaper camera, you can always opt for the cheaper camera and buy accessories, or better yet, lenses.
>> xexyz
>>247809
Get a D90 kit and a good zoom.
Since you're just starting out though, I'd really recommend you just get a D60. Believe me, it'll be a while till you outgrow it, if ever.
Also, check Abes Of Maine for pricing. They seem to consistently have the best prices by far for Nikon kits. That's where I'm getting my D90 from come spring.