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Anonymous
Hi, newfag here. I got a nikon D40 with the lens that followed the standard kit. I'm not a very good photographer, but I really enjoy taking pictures and I will hopefully improve. So I'm thinking. I want a new lens to work with. I like taking pictures of people and closeups of things. What lens should I get? I also like taking concert pictures, but most concerts require photopasses.
Adding a picture I took on a random outdoor concert:p
EXIF data available. Clickhereto show/hide.
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>> Butterfly !xlgRMYva6s
Stay with the kit lense, get a decent flash. If you see some primes for cheap cheap get them but make sure they work with ya D40 first (because it sucks balls).

Practice and dont forget to push the ISO to max to get shots cause your not printing them.
>> Anonymous
Ok, thanks a lot! Will look into it.
>> Anonymous
Great shot, especially for a beginner, OP.

>>92078
What are you talking about?

1. Kit lenses are notorious for just being downright mediocre.

2. A shoe-mount flash is no where as essential as you're making it out to be. Unless he also buy the equipment he needs to use it off the camera, it's only marginally better than his pop-up.

3. Only get some primes if he can get them for cheap? The lens is the most critical part of the hardware for making an image; it's the last place one wants to skimp. OP, the kit lens is okay, but you do want to pick up a 50/1.8 prime and a normal prime. The 50mm prime is a nice portrait lens and is pretty much the cheapest lens you can buy.

A "normal" focal length is one that approximates the way the human eye sees; they're very versatile lenses, and the traditional way to learn photography was with one camera, one film, and one lens, which almost invariably was a normal prime. Sticking to one camera and lens forces you to get to know them intimately, develop an eye for shots that lens will get well, and develop general good shooting habits. That isn't to say "don't use other lenses period;" a normal prime will do for more shots than anything else, but it won't do for everything. But try to keep yourself to it.

On 35mm film cameras, a normal prime was usually 50mm, but the "true normal" length is 43mm. Your camera's sensor is 1.5x smaller than a piece of 35mm film, so you divide these lengths by 1.5. A good range to look for these lenses in is 28-35mm; 28 is just one millimeter shy of the ideal, in fact. Shop around; find one you like. They're not as cheap as a 50mm, but they aren't insanely expensive, especially used.

3. Any F-mount lens works with the D40. All that's lost, ever, is autofocus and metering, and I believe focus confirmation still works.

4. "Push the ISO to the max?" ISO ought to be kept as low as possible.
>> Anonymous
>>92082

A shoe mount flash can be far better than the pop-up. I don't know where you got that idea.
>> Anonymous
The 50mm 1.8 won't autofocus with that camera. So it's manual only. In that case you may as well buy some vintage but quality manual only lens, rather than a crippled modern autofocus one.
>> Anonymous
>>92083
The only things really gained are a tilting head and a little bit of extra distance insurance for red-eye. Homemade diffusers and reflectors make up for most of the distance.

If he's willing to invest in a light stand and a pocket wizard or substitute (if the D40 doesn't have the stuff Nikon builds into some of their cameras... I don't know) then a shoe-mount would be really useful.

Oh, and OP, the very best thing you can do to develop your photography (besides practice) has nothing to do with gear: go look at the work of great photographers.

http://www.masters-of-photography.com/

and

http://www.magnumphotos.com/

are good clearinghouses. A good guy to look at for your concert work would be Josef Koudelka, who's best known for a rebellion, landscapes, and gypsies, but whose early work consists a lot of photographing theater productions. For portraits, look at Steve McCurry. But really, just click around those two sites and study what makes those shots work. And check out James Nachtwey; he has his own site, but he's very likely the most talented photographer, composition-wise, working today.
>> Anonymous
>>92086
To clarify, I meant the second time I used the word "distance" in the first paragraph to refer to the "distance" in usefulness between a shoe flash and a pop-up flash, not to the distance between the flash and the lens that leads to red-eye.
>> Anonymous
A good hotshoe flash can be very useful and versatile. The pop-up flash is not a substitute for it even if you cover it in home made junk.
>> Butterfly !xlgRMYva6s
>>92082
0/10
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>92082
>1. Kit lenses are notorious for just being downright mediocre.
According to conventional wisdom, yeah, but I don't put much faith in that. It goes kinda like this:

Stage I: You get a kit lens because you don't know any better, and are quite happy with it
Stage II: You start hearing all of these bad things about the kit lens, so you spend a bunch on new lenses and start passing on the bad things you've heard about the kit lens. You assume that the kit lens is crap.
Stage III: You realize that, while the kit lens isn't as high quality as the lenses that cost hundreds of dollars more, it really is quite a versatile little piece of glass, with a really good wide angle, normal, and medium/portrait tele all in one lens, and the deficiencies that other people see in it really only show up when you're shooting pictures of test charts wide open.

You can get some excellent shots from a kit lens, and they're as sharp as anything if you stop 'em down to around f/8 or so. Which transitions into...

>2. A shoe-mount flash is no where as essential as you're making it out to be.
A hot-shoe flash with a bounce head lets you fill the room with a blast of soft light bright enough to get you down to f/8 or so, at which point the kit lens is nice and sharp. It's a hell of a lot better if you go all strobist and take it off-camera, but it's still useful on-camera.

(And taking it off camera isn't really all that much extra expense. ~$20 for a set of PovertyWizards, ~$30 for a good lighting stand, ~$20 for an umbrella, and good light will improve your photos more than good glass)

>Practice and dont forget to push the ISO to max to get shots cause your not printing them.
I'm guessing you meant "don't be afraid to push the ISO" rather than "don't forget to push the ISO". Which I agree with.
>> Anonymous
>>92084

According to the manual, the older glass won't have the light metering when attached to the d40 I'd love to hear I'm wrong though
>> Anonymous
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I guess last poster is right. I need to find out exactly what I need it for. I will investigate and see what I do.

I got another question though. Any tips on how to take good indoor concert pictures? I dont like using flash. The pictures tend to get really boring. Like this one for example. I got some nice pictures with flash, but I felt like I was only lucky with those

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>> Anonymous
>>92104
get a fast lens so you can get pictures without using flash and just the show lighting. but, as said before, they wont autofocus on the D40, so get used to manual focusing.
>> Anonymous
1. It's not a horrible lens, but there's nothing to recommend it other than that it has a good zoom range. Kit lenses are "mediocre," and "okay," I said, not bad.

And this is a stylistic matter, but personally I like using lenses opened up a bit and that hit their sharpest aperture closer to wide-open. Most lenses seem to me to be better aesthetically opened up; sharpness isn't as important an optical factor as people make it out to be.

And plus, the real advantage of primes IMO is the way they make you work, sticking at one focal length over a long period of time and developing your eye for that focal length. You can do this with a zoom, but only at the very shortest and longest ends. Kit lenses go a little too wide to be shooting at that all the time.

2. It'll result in a properly exposed photograph, but it'll also blast away any interesting subtle (or, to an extent, unsubtle) light contrasts in the scene. Just like a kit lens, simple diffused bounce flash looks alright, but doesn't look very interesting and won't make a shot. A flash will also remove any candid element in what's being shot if you plan on taking more than one shot of the subject. And if he's big on shooting concerts, most bands aren't fans of having strobes go off in their face while they're performing.

It's also possible to build a very impromptu bounce-diffuser for a pop-up flash: wrap the thing in aluminum foil loose at the front to send the light upwards, put some diffusing thing around the top, and there you go. No where near ideal, of course, but still possible.

And I'm all for assembling the stuff needed to do great flash work, but when someone is starting out, they need to be focused on developing their sight for good light before they start creating it, and the money from that would be better spent on a good prime for someone working on that. If he can afford it all, though, great.
>> Anonymous
If you are getting boring pictures with flash, then it is because you don't know how to use it.
>> Anonymous
This is one type of picture I get when I use flash. The other one I use like the ready night setting thats on the camera. Gets a whole different effect. I always want that kind of effect, but it's hard to get the focus on the right object. One of the members of the band obviously, but if I dont the object it just gets blurry and shit. Again im not a pro:P Thats why i am here loooking for tips
>> Anonymous
>>92137
night setting = slow sync flash. that means it uses flash, but uses a long enough exposure to also get the background exposed. the shutter speed will be much slower than with just normal sync flash. of course stuff comes out blurry.
>> Anonymous
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>> Anonymous
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Kind the result I want, but I was kinda lucky with this one. Should I just use the night setting or is it any better ways to do it?

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>> Anonymous
>>92145
thats really not as cool as you think, but if you must, you can just use any other mode and turn on slow sync flash.
>> Anonymous
>>92145
Forget about any modes on your camera except manual, aperture priority, and shutter priority. And you can usually ditch the latter two.

All it is is a longer shutter speed with flash. Since the flash is so much brighter than everything else, for the foreground, it overwhelms any effect the shutter speed has. Its affect falls off with distance, so you need a longer shutter speed to expose the background properly

See what the exposure settings are? Shutter for one second, f/5, ISO 400. Set it to that, pop the flash, go to town. Play around as needed. Shutter speed will have a major impact on how bright the background is, but not the foreground. Aperture and ISO will affect it all.
>> Anonymous
>>92150
manual isnt as cool as you think, especially on the D40 since theres only one command dial.
>> elf_man !fBgo7jDjms
>>92145
>>92151
There's very little difference between using manual and aperture priority, because either way you use the command dial to pick one setting, the hold down the comp button and use it to set the other. But when I'm using aperture priority, I tend to forget to change my aperture more than when I'm using manual. Either way, trust the metering plus your own experience, and it's easier to get the results you want in m, a, or s than with one of the scene settings.
>> Anonymous
>>92166
how do you forget to change your aperture in av mode when thats all youre changing, not your shutter speed
>> Anonymous
>>92151
1. One command dial? That's pretty stupid.
2. I stick to manual for two reasons: the extra control and guarantee that nothing's going to foul up by taking the computer out of the equation and the genuine understanding of how the camera works that builds when you shoot in it.
>> elf_man !fBgo7jDjms
>>92172
Since the camera sets the exposure, I tend to just make compensation adjustments rather than changing the actual aperture. In full manual, I'm mindful of both, and it doesn't take much extra effort.
>> Anonymous
>>92176
I don't get the second reason - in the end, you're shifting two dials about to center the little arrow in the metering display. What decides where the needle goes? The camera's meter and computer system, of course.

I don't get the whole "omg I NEED manual control" thing. Shooting with my FM2 is pretty much a slower priority mode - set one dial to achieve creative effect, spin other until the little circle is lit up.

If you're desperate to leave a computer out of the equation, you're going to have to shoot unmetered or shut up.
>> Anonymous
>>92394shoot unmetered or shut up.
You don't know how to meter properly, then. Read about the Zone System, for example. It works wonderfully with spot metering, and center-weighted metering can work with it too.
>> eku !8cibvLQ11s
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>>92077
Now it's better.

How I photograph gigs.
Shoot RAW. JPG only isn't an option.
I push ISO up to max 1600. Unless it's open air concert on a daytime.
Aperture priority is my favorite. It just works for me, and don't see any reason not to use it. Much better than manual in constantly changing lighting.
I use evaluating metering. Usually I underexposure -2 - -½ steps, (if the whole stage is black, including the band's clothing etc). If there's heavy smoke, and whole stage is illuminated, I might even have to overexposure the photo +1 step.
It's just a matter of knowing how your meter works in different situations. Manual mode is just so much overrated.

Oh, and everyone serioysly intrested in gig photography, should check this site:
http://musicphotoforums.net
...and my portfolio: http://eku.huono.org/portfolio

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>> Geo
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Hey,

I'm a gig photographer, have been doing it for quite some time now. A lot of the advice in this post is quite useful, but here's what I'd suggest...

1) Try not to use flash very much. It's cool for using with slow shutter speeds, but once you get to a decent level venues won't even allow the use of flash. And on top of that, everybody is abusing the effect these days. In my opinion, it's better to get experience without using it sooner rather than later.
b) It really is all about the lens. You need something that will go to a low f/ number, preferably with zoom. However, if you're just beginning, a cheap prime lens should be fine. I use a Tamron f/2.8 28-75mm zoom lens and it's perfect.
c) You're almost always gonna wanna be using ISO1600, unless there's a rare occassion where the lighting is good. However, that rarely happens.
d) If you want to get photo passes, you just have to be good at blagging things. Take your camera to a gig with you and say you're taking some photos for the local newspaper. Better yet, actually try to work with the local newspaper. Even better still, contact the band beforehand and see if they can arrange a photo pass in return for some photos ;-)

This is mainly aimed at the gig photography part of your interests... but this is the setup that I use and it works well for me. Attached is a picture of a gig I recently shot - Pendulum Live @ Newcastle Carling Academy.
>> Anonymous
>>92643
it also helps to always pretend like youre supposed to be there, even if you lie about being with a paper or whatever. ive gone to bars to shoot for my friends band even though im under 21 and the bar has denied several bands because 1 member was under 21. ive gotten marked as a band member at the door by pretending i was supposed to be there. it works.
>> Geo
>>92645

Hehe good idea there! Confidence is all you really need to get photo passes if I'm honest ;-)

Also a word about focus - if you're using a low aperture lens you'll have a very shallow depth of field, so take care with your focus. If you're taking a shot of a lead guitarist for example, the guitar may be perfectly in focus but the guitarist himself might not be. It's entirely down to you to decide what should and shouldn't be in focus.
>> Anonymous
I just want to go back to Norway now, so I can practice more! I guess I'll have to stick with other types of photography for now!:p Thanks again for all advices I've got so far!
>> Anonymous
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Heres one i took at a gig. I just held it up and snapped. But i love how its turned out.
>> eku !8cibvLQ11s
I usually get my "photo pass" just by emailing the bands, or their booking agent. And I ask if it's possible to come and photograph them.
If they are ok about it, but don't mention anything about putting my name on the guest list, I ask about it. And I might offer them we sized photos to be used on their web page.
>> eku !8cibvLQ11s
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>>92747
Imo it needs a lot more back light and contrast, and less jpg compression.

Something like this.

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>> Sicko !L3HRY/miC.
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Don't know what to add but reinforce what other people have said about a fast prime, ISO 1600 or so. I would say forget about flash totally, but maybe that's just me.
>> Anonymous
>>92077

oh god /p/ is crapping on itself in this thred.

to the OP, your photos are great. mostly due to the composition but its also great hw you have filled each frame, a lot is going on in each photo.

>>92747
>>92782
>>92643

seriously, these three photos that /p/ has given as examples of "advice" are a joke. its like your all stuck in the seventies. They are boring and have no energy in them. its like you have gone to a gig and said "i want one of those silhouette shots".

>>92140
>>92145

these two from the op are fantastic. whatever you are doing keep on doing it. you actually have an understanding of contemporary style and arnt bogged down in the technical aspects of how your getting the results.

tldr: op is rocking from the start. he should be giving /p/ advice.
>> Anonymous
>>92861
the first photo is ok, bordering mediocre. the others are poorly done
>> Anonymous
>>92862

in what respect? if you think that of his photos what do you think of the others that have posted in this thred?
>> Sicko !L3HRY/miC.
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>> Anonymous
>>92864
the other ones have more atmosphere in them.

the ones you said are "fantastic" from the OP dont have the same atmosphere. look at the expression on the guy. the lighting is really boring. etc.
>> Anonymous
i think the problem with /p/ may be that it generally lacks any actual creative talent.

instead they spend most of the time arguing over what entry level dlsr is the best and other such shit.
>> Anonymous
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ITT band pictures?

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>> Anonymous
>>92861
Agreed. OP has potential.
>> Anonymous
>>92866

>>the other ones have more atmosphere in them.


Jesus, you've just proved my point in>>92868.
by atmosphere do you mean that the other photos all look the same. OOOOHHH a colored stage light...SOLD. god every other person that has posted a picture in this thred has one person on stage centered in the frame with a stage light beaming all over them. originality, where are you?

although you could argue that the OPs photos are also unoriginal they arnt stuck in this formulaic BS pattern that every single other photo in this thred is.
>> Anonymous
>>92876
the other pictures from OP arent original. they look like any picture of a concert coming from a point and shoot with flash on. they all look the same.
>> Sicko !L3HRY/miC.
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>> Anonymous
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>>92876
what. atmosphere is atmosphere. and how about 2 people in a wide crop with stage lights?

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>> Anonymous
>>92886
>>92882

wooo two boring photos of two boring bands. there is nothing going on in these two. no movement to energy just static old, done to deth gig archetype photos.

>>92881

i agreed that they weren't original i you could be bothered to read the post. Nothing is anymore. there is a difference between being unoriginal and being done to death.

what the OP is doing is using a natural ability to select and edit what he sees fit. he has a good eye and the second two of his photos could slip easily into any modern music magazine. he has potential and scope.

i think you need to understand that there is a level of understanding above and beyond your own.
>> Anonymous
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atmosphere = hot girls!

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>> Anonymous
>>92891
and theres a difference between done to death, but still decently pleasing, and unoriginal and shitty looking.
>> Anonymous
>>92901
Bjork + Emiliana Torrini?
>> Anonymous
i've never understood the popularity of gig photos, but then again:

1) i'm not a scene kid, and that doesn't just refer to the way i dress. i rarely go to live shows, because most bands aren't worth the six or seven bucks. when i do go, they aren't exciting. it's just a bunch of sweaty scene kids (based on the way they dress) wigging out on drugs and acting all high school an' shit.

2) they all look the same. i've never seen one that surpassed anything i can catch for a full hour straight on austin city limits every saturday night. formula: some generic white guy with tattoos and severly cliche wardrobe straddling his guitar or mic stand, staring out at the audience and singing about his ex-girlfriend. blegh.

3) however, i do understand the sheer challenge of working in a very hostile environment. someone might bump the shit out of your $2000 gear setup, or spill a drink on it, or whatever. plus, you're working in at best EV 5, and autofocus almost certainly doesn't work for shit. it's the whole photographer's playground aspect.

band photos can be inherently interesting, but i prefer to see them all editorial stylez. you've seen one gig photo, you've seen them all.
>> Anonymous
>>92994
QFT. I'm going to be shooting a friend's band Friday night, and I'm going to explicitly avoid the typical style. Get a couple keepers in it for him to use if nothing works out with the rest of, but otherwise work intensely to get out of that mold.
>> Anonymous
>>92994
1)there are gigs other than those performed by scene cunts
2) if the photog is shit
3) try 4-5k and that's part of the fun, hitting someone with your camera is always fun, and ev3-5 is great for creativity.....ok, b&w covers noise.
>> Anonymous
I'm so glad I decided on the D80 right now.
>> Anonymous
>>93011

wow. you're such a pro. tell me how to be like you, photo mastar.

or show me some gig photos that you took that aren't exactly like what i described.
>> Anonymous
guys. gigs have been shot billions of times. theres nothing that hasnt been done to death. nothing. at all. get over it. its like flower macros. its all going to be the same. its just a matter of what looks good and what doesnt. you will not get anything original. no matter what.
>> Anonymous
>>93054
simple, just buy my tutorial dvd
>> LOLOL HURRICANES
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>>93056

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>> Anonymous
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First time i shot at a concert, how'd i do?

Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeCanonCamera ModelCanon PowerShot SD1000Maximum Lens Aperturef/2.8Sensing MethodOne-Chip Color AreaLens Size5.80 - 17.40 mmFirmware VersionFirmware Version 1.00Image-Specific Properties:Image OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution180 dpiVertical Resolution180 dpiImage Created2007:04:20 23:06:08Exposure Time1/80 secF-Numberf/2.8ISO Speed Rating1600Lens Aperturef/2.8Exposure Bias0 EVFlashNo Flash, CompulsoryFocal Length5.80 mmColor Space InformationsRGBImage Width3072Image Height2304RenderingNormalExposure ModeAutoScene Capture TypeStandardFocus TypeAutoMetering ModeEvaluativeSharpnessNormalSaturationNormalContrastNormalShooting ModeManualImage SizeLargeFocus ModeSingleDrive ModeSingleFlash ModeOffCompression SettingSuperfineMacro ModeNormalSubject Distance0.760 mWhite BalanceAutoExposure Compensation3Sensor ISO Speed288Image Number101-0850
>> Anonymous
>>93292
needs less noise, blown out, and ass.
>> Anonymous
>>93292
I got rid of the point and shoot after seeing the horrid grain, i've got a canon 30d now
>> Anonymous
>>93292

It looks overexposed and noisy.