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Anonymous
Hi /p/!
I'm planning to buy a digital compact camera. I come from the rangefinder film planet. Which one do you recommend me?
- Ricoh GR Digital 2
- Panasonic LX3
- Sigma DP2
- Canon G9
- ...
...and cheaper ones?
go go go!
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
None of the above. Wait for a good Micro Four Thirds camera to come out.
>> Anonymous
>>275943
op here.
I have seen some micro4:3 prototypes designs and, I don't know why, they all are SLR-like. I think they should follow the rangefinder design. Don't you?
>> Anonymous
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>>275948
>> Anonymous
>>275950
wow! I didn't see this one. I meant that kind of camera. OK, I'll wait for the micro-4:3 to come.
>> Anonymous
>>275951
It's in early prototype stages, though. I don't expect Olympus to finish it earlier than next summer.
>> Anonymous
>>275954
Yes. We also must consider the global recession. Maybe it's left as a prototype forever.
>> Anonymous
LX3
Lica Lens, Cheaper :)
>> Anonymous
Masaya Maeda wrote:

The rule of the thirds is a very old style. Market research has shown that today most people prefer the symmetry of placing the subject dead center. This makes accurate outer AF points totally unnecessary.

LOL CANON
>> Anonymous
>>275963

DEAD CENTER IS THE NEW WAY! RULE OF THIRDS IS DEAD!
>> Anonymous
What's rule of thirds?
I always put the subject dead center, its the subject for Christ's sake!! WHere else would you put it?? Along the bottom?? Top left corner??
>> Anonymous
>>275973Along the bottom?? Top left corner??

yes, for example
>> mochimon !VCX5g73yEM
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i got the G10 and came buckets. suggest you do the same. takes amazing video, better than GL2(though no manual settings). image stabilization has me shooting at 15/100 handheld no problem. people say its basically the same as G9 externally. not true. every single detail of the camera has been changed, from strap to lens mount.
i have erection still!


only problem is there's no raw support for it yet.

sadness
>> Anonymous
>>276005
No raw? ffffuuu-
Cosmetically, it's a nice camera.
Does it come with full-manual mode including manual focusing?
Which is the shortest df? 28mm? 35mm?
How many bucks dollar/euro?
>> Anonymous
i think he means there is no software that supports the RAW files output from the g10 yet, but it does capture RAW

and the g9/g10 suck shit anyway, save your money and get something at half the price that does 80% of what it does
>> Anonymous
>>276005
>no raw support for it yet.

you mean that Lightroom/Silkypix/whatever can't read its raws yet or that they took raw shooting out of the camera again?
>> Anonymous
>>276014
for example?
My great interest is:
- full manual mode
- manual focus
- wide angle
- viewfinder (or capable of)
- not too much expensive
>> Anonymous
samefag as 276019 (also OP)
I use Cosina Voigtlander Bessa R and a Ricoh GR1, so I'm looking for something alike in digital.
I'have thought on Epson R-D1 but it seems it's a crap.
Leica M8 it's too expensive...................
>> mochimon !VCX5g73yEM
>>276014
what>>276010said

full manual mode, yes. manual focus, yes. 28mm, yes. viewfinder, yes (and it zooms w/lens). 500 bucks.

personally, its cheap enough that i can buy one every time there is a new model and not feel bad at all.

problem with video is you can't set the shutter speed, aperture, or gain, and it has no exposure lock that im aware of. these problems don't exist in still mode.
>> Anonymous
>>276044personally, its cheap enough that i can buy one every time there is a new model and not feel bad at all.

you must enjoy wasting money on pieces of shit
>> mochimon !VCX5g73yEM
omg, i just realized it has an exposure compensation feature for video. erection still standing.

also: dont you guys have the fucking internet? just look up all that shit.
>> mochimon !VCX5g73yEM
>>276048
lol, no. this is no piece of shit.
>> Anonymous
>>276050
I read /p/ for a reason: find valuable opinions I won't find on "the internet"
>>276044
I don't care about video. I won't use it. If I want to record video I'll purchase a video camera. What I am looking for is a photograph camera. :-)
btw, do you sell your old G7, G9...?
>> mochimon !VCX5g73yEM
>>276053
>I read /p/ for a reason: find valuable opinions I won't find on "the internet"

then why do you ask questions like "duhuhuh, whats price, duhuhh".

FFFFFFFFFFUUUUU-

never had a G9, all my friends did. used theirs a lot. one of them broke his while doing a project in sweden(expensive) and had to buy another like a week before the G10 came out. he an hero'd obviously.
>> Anonymous
>>276051

the a650 costs half and does everything the g9 does

every point-and-shoot is slow to operate, slow to process, has horrible controls, horrible picture quality in any situations other than daylight and this piece of shit costs $500. you can buy an entry level dslr for that price

i'm sure you go around patting yourself in the back thinking how great your G9 is
>> Anonymous
>>276054
lol about your story in sweden.
I looked at the prices on ebay... ok, I've been some lazy to ask the price in /p/
>>276055
I'll check that one on dpreview.
if it has manual focus, speed, apperture and white balance, it could be a win.
>> mochimon !VCX5g73yEM
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>>276055
durrrr

Camera-Specific Properties:Camera SoftwareAdobe Photoshop 7.0Image-Specific Properties:Image OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution72 dpiVertical Resolution72 dpiImage Created2005:02:22 19:25:52Color Space InformationUncalibratedImage Width640Image Height480
>> mochimon !VCX5g73yEM
>>276056
i mean its just faster, too.
>> Anonymous
op here
thank you everybody. Your opinions and discussion is very valuable. It's a good thing from /p/
I'm checking that a650:
+ manual everything
- no raw
+ viewfinder
+ also swivel lcd to hide it :-)

About 280-300 EUR
>> Anonymous
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op again
in return, a picture I took with my Bessa R.
Have a nice day.
>> Anonymous
>>276059

http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK unlocks RAW on the A650

the A650 has the exact same lens, image processor and sensor as the G9, but for half the price.

ignore mochimon, he's either at troll or someone really stupid or jealous of the fact he spends $500 every year on a new piece of shit when you can get the same piece of shit for half the price
>> Anonymous
>>276057durrrr

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canong9/page5.asp

>> The G9's autofocus is actually quite slow in low light or macro mode. Shutter lag when using the LCD is also a little disappointing

>> Whilst side by side tests showed that the G9 is marginally faster at finding focus it's still far from class-leading.

>> there are faster cameras on the market - even the S5 IS, with twice the zoom range, consistently beats it at the wide end of the zoom.
>> Anonymous
>>276064
I won't use the autofocus. Only manual focusing.
- though, 35mm widest angle is a fail
>> Anonymous
>>276021
>>276019

OP, in new cameras your only options are the LX-3 and the Ricoh GR-D II, assuming by "viewfinder" you mean optical viewfinder and not an EVF. Though you could buy a shoe finder for the right focal lengths for anything with a shoe, in which case there's all the superzoom cameras and the Ricoh GX-200, which is basically the GR-D II with a zoom lens.

If you've been shooting with a Ricoh GR, I'd just go ahead and get the GR-D II. Same thing in digital.

The Epson RD-1 is fine, just the sensor's a little dated and will get internal flare sometimes on wider lenses.

And if (as your mention of the Epson suggests) you're looking not specifically for a really tiny compact but just a digital option, in addition to all of these Olympus, Nikon, Canon, and Sony made a bunch of awesome bridge cameras a few years back.
>> Anonymous
>>276066
thank you Anon.
The camera must not be bulky and noisy, like a SLR. The main thing is to get a rangefinderish digital camera with full manual operation.
The viewfinder, yes, I mean optical vf for the widest angle (28mm if possible, if not, 35mm).
I'll check out those bridge cameras. I don't care about the megapixels, but a minimum of five or six. My photography is mainly about street and when I wanted to go to digital, I found a huge gap of the rangefinder style-type of camera.

The perfect thing would be a R-D1 or a M8 and maybe the GRD-II. What annoys me from the GR1 is the apperture priority only mode, but the manual fixed focusing and snapshot mode are great!
>> Anonymous
>>276066

the LX3's has no optica viewfinder. the option viewfinder attachemnt is like $200USD alone
>> Anonymous
>>276067What annoys me from the GR1 is the apperture priority only mode, but the manual fixed focusing and snapshot mode are great!

It's got the best speed of operation of any compact camera, period. Dual wheels, with the rear wheel containing a push-in function to access other user-defined settings like ISO, quality, flash compensation, etc.

The operation is so quick, reliable, and similar to my SLRs, I can get very quick shots on the street. Also, and this is a rarity among point and shoots: no discernible shutter lag, if you're in Snap, Infinity, or MF mode (though the manual focus is lame and sucks). No shutter sound, either. You can turn every unnecessary sound off, which is not something I think you can say for many point-and-shoot class cameras, again. It becomes a stealth camera. With the viewfinder, I don't have to frame using the terrible (and bright) screen. Instead, I've got big 21mm/28mm brightlines, and I can shoot as though I'm using a rangefinder, a la HCB, Winogrand, Erwitt, DAH, and the other Leica-using ilk.
>> Anonymous
>>276066
Some of these have larger 2/3" (half the size of Four-Thirds), others have 1/1.8" sensors, the size of all the modern point and shoots mentioned ITT.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Olympus/oly_c8080wz.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Olympus/oly_c7070wz.asp (Also an older 5050 and 5060, same deal. Alex Majoli shot with all these Olympus ones as his main cameras for a few years, though I'm sure he's probably moved back to Leicas with the M8)
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Panasonic/panasonic_dmclc1.asp (DP Review doesn't review this, but a bunch of other places have really in-depth reviews on it)
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Sony/sony_dscr1.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydscf828/
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Canon/canon_pro1.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Canon/canon_g2.asp

Not all of these will suit the OP for various reasons, but just a sampler from the golden age of bridge cameras, before the Digital Rebel came out for under $1,000 and people traded camera quality for interchangeable lenses and image quality, though the Sony DSC-R1 has an APS-C sensor, too.
>> Anonymous
>>276069
phewww
we are talking in the same idiom!
I was talking about the GR1, film one. The dual wheel from the GRD is what GR1 needed to be perfect. Why do you say MF sucks? I use to prefocus at two meters and use F8 or F11 and 1/250 1/125 to ensure the DoF. And play with these values depending on the shadows, lights, bounced lights from skyscrapers, etc.
You touched a very important thing on street photog: speed of operation. With my Bessa R I can config the camera in a second uncounsciously. It would be a shame to look at a lcd and run through infinite menues to change the speed or apperture.
How is the Canon A650 in speed of operation?
>> Anonymous
>>276069
That's the GR-1 he's talking about, dumbass. A film camera that preceded the GR-D in that copypasta, which is perfectly reasonable.

>>276067
OP, I'd look at the Olympus models I mentioned, they sound like a good fit. Start a 28mm, optical VF, etc.
>> Anonymous
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>>276070people traded camera quality for interchangeable lenses and image quality
>> Anonymous
>>276071
You're not with him. A guy on here named Heavyweather wrote that, and some trolls think it's funny for some reason and post it any time Ricoh is mentione.d
>> Anonymous
>>276070
those bridge cameras, nice list. I have dump this thread to a PDF to review it later.
the Camedias x0x0 have good reputation. I used the 5050 once and it was like a mechanic camera. I mean, non digital.
Thanks
>> Anonymous
>>276071

Frankly, I like the GR lens as well. It's sharp, fast, and because of the unfucked noise reduction, you can shoot good stuff at a 1/15th of a second at f/2.4 at 1600 and get usable stuff in any room with more than a few photons bouncing around. Now that's a pretty fucking good trick, if you ask me about a pocket camera. I just love mine.
>> ac !!VPzQAxYPAMA
>>275948
>I have seen some micro4:3 prototypes designs and, I don't know why, they all are SLR-like. I think they should follow the rangefinder design. Don't you?
Hence the verb "wait" and the adjective "good", yes. :)

Unfortunately, that prototype Olympus design (according to a DPReview interview with the Olympus guys) depends on technology which hasn't actually been invented yet, so it might be a bit of a wait... :-/
>> Anonymous
>>276077
lol
I didn't know how far the Anon's perversion can go to :-)
it's a great info thread.
btw, did you like my photo in return some posts up?
>> Anonymous
>>276081

Reference

1. DPReview
2. Olympus guys
>> mochimon !VCX5g73yEM
>>276064
i dont know if you read the post, but i said G10. like the one AFTER the g9. as in the one commercially available. it has a 28mm wide end. and, no, it is not the same as the a650.

OP:
if you are going to go for the GRD-II i suggest you wait, as that thing has been out for a while and is due for an upgrade.

i will say though, that if i could get the G10's capabilities in the GR's body i would cream my pants to no end. the GR was a joy to use, and so small i could put fit it in my pants next to my enormous shlong.

that reminds me: i own the original GR Digital, and found the image quality to be disappointing, and the interface/controls to be far less usable than the GR. it also took about 20 seconds to write a RAW file after you took an exposure. i know that may not be relevant in discussion of the GRD II, but thought i might put that out there.
>> Anonymous
>>276151

wow, you seem to be fixated on the G9 and G10

everyone else knows how shitty those cameras are and only idiots would pay $500 for them
>> mochimon !VCX5g73yEM
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YOU HAVES TO HAVE THIS.


when i used third party firmware before it made me cry, then buy a real camera.
>> Anonymous
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>> then buy a real camera
>> G10
>> Anonymous
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mochimon must be a troll.

Everyone knows point-and-shoots are only good in daylight and suck balls the rest of the time.
>> Anonymous
>>276151
What oh-so-vital capabilities does the Canon G10 have that the Ricohs don't?
>> Anonymous
>>276164
Yeah, because Tri-X looks like polished tile.
>> mochimon !VCX5g73yEM
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>>276165
bought a 30D.

>>276155
zoom lens and viewfinder for almost same price as a ricoh without.


also: i dont know anything about this camera, but just saw it on amazon. range finder body, but no viewfinder. shoots RAW, pretty nice seeming sensor, etc.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0013DCOZC/ref=s9subs_c5_114_img3-rfc_g1-frt_g1-3102_p?pf_rd_m=A3
P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=1TAGKVJV1CHNAP0NB14B&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=22250
6591&pf_rd_i=468294

ah and also also: the G10 has a bit of shutter lag, which i imaging would be fail for what you want it for, so maybeit isnt the right camera for you. (its still fucking awesome though, faggots).

oh shit i just read that the sigma has shutter lag and slow read/write times. damn. looks good tough :3
>> Anonymous
>>276188

4/10
>> Anonymous
>>276164
lol. that that sounds like 2 years ago. OP probably doesnt care about low light as he is shooting street. although it sounds like he is used to shooting with like ISO 200-400 film, and all these cameras pretty much need to be in the 50-100 range to be spot on.
>> Anonymous
>>276188
1) Are you prefocusing? If it G9 has shutter lag with everything set in advance, that's pretty big fail.

2) Did you seriously just link to the DP-1? I'm not dealing with that URL to find out.

>>276164
According to the website below (scroll to the bottom, punch in the right dimensions, etc.) the G10's 1/1.7" sensor has as much depth of field at f/2.8 as the 450D's does at f/8. The G10 and 450D look about on par at 100/800, slight edge to the G10 IMO, and at 200/1600 the G10 clearly wins. So it depends on your priorities and what you're going for, which would hopefully include in a broader sense not being anal about noise.

Also, these wouldn't be JPEGs, would they? You wouldn't look at lousy firmware-engine JPEGs, now would you? If they are, then the comparison (either way) is worthless.

http://www.tawbaware.com/maxlyons/calc.htm
>> Anonymous
>>276198
*If the G10 has
>> Anonymous
>>276198The G10 and 450D look about on par at 100/800, slight edge to the G10 IMO, and at 200/1600 the G10 clearly wins

Are you blind?
>> Anonymous
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>>276201
I'm comparing a hypothetical f/2.8 ISO 100 G10 to an f/8 ISO 800 450D with equal exposure and depth of field, same at 200 and 1600.
>> Anonymous
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>>276208
>> mochimon !VCX5g73yEM
>>276198
>If it G9 has shutter lag with everything set in advance, that's pretty big fail.
yeah, it lags about a tenth of a second. i know, its lame.
>> mochimon !VCX5g73yEM
DUDE, HOLD OFF ON THE GRD-II ITS OLD AS FUCK AND IS ABOUT TO BE REPLACED.

also: i looked into it and that sigma is garbage.
>> Anonymous
Lumix LX3
>> Anonymous
>>276409
With LX2 one, the access to change the camera's configuration is very slow.
Did they improve this thing on the LX3?