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Anonymous
>> Anonymous
More believable than the footage released today.
>> Anonymous
I'm always astounded at the number of people willing to believe the government has the competence to successfully lead a conspiracy.
>> Anonymous
I'm always amazed by the sheer studipity it takes to think there was ever a conspiracy. It was a missle! No wait, an F16! No wait, a remote controlled jet liner! A UFO! The man on the grassy hill!
>> Anonymous
That is the government's greatest weapon. People think they are dumber than rocks, and they can whatever they want because everybody thinks, "The government ain't that smart."

Or maybe they are th stupedist being's in history, and they are just damned lucky and.or people over think everything, and want there to be a conspiracy.

Damn...see, those tricky bastards.
>> Anonymous
>>230958

You just answered your own question. It gives them inner peace. It's much better than accepting reality that yes, someone f***ed up.
>> Anonymous
It's impossible to hide things of that scale in this age of the internet.

Heck, how many security leaks did the USA have recently?
>> Anonymous
People need something to live for. Some believe in religion. Some believe in ideals. Some believe in conspiracies.

Humans are weak.
>> Anonymous
>>230974

Not really a question at all, but sure
>> Anonymous
I could've stopped the Pentagon from getting struck. All it needed were some patriot missle and Prism Tower fortifications (it worked on the simulator)
>> Anonymous
There's a lot of things that could have stopped that plane... but that's not the point. These guys were sucker punched.
>> Anonymous
>>230963


Grassy knoll. The shots came from the grassy knoll.
>> Anonymous
More importantly: no heroes took down that other plane. It was shot down by our own guys to save its target, but rather that say something like "We just shot down a planeful of our own citizens!" which wouldn't go down well no matter how necessary, the government gives an easily built story about some real American heroes we can all jerk our patriotic wangs too and watch a major hollywood picture about.
>> Anonymous
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8260059923762628848&q=loose+change
>> Anonymous
Shouldn't we worry about the normal things in our government that are fucked up before we work out all the conspiracies and shit?
>> Anonymous
To the conspiracy nuts above:

If the government couldn't keep fucking watergate under wraps, how the fuck would they keep something seen by millions a secret? You fucking dumbass.
>> Anonymous
>>230956
It's funny I saw that video ages ago on the internets... loose change anyone?
>> Anonymous
>>231095

People swallow lies easily, provided they are big enough. SOmething like this would be easier to hide than Watergate, because people would dismiss it out of hand as a nutbag conspiracy theory.
>> Anonymous
>>231095
I dunno, maybe times change, maybe that was 30 years ago and a different administration.
With conspiracies there are two extremes of stupidity, there are people who wholeheartedly believe even the dumbest ones; and people who just close their mind's to any such ideas.
>>230974
On the contrary I think it gives the disbelievers peace to think that the situation was as simple as the official report.
>> Anonny
>>231095

Well, then where did the plane go that crashed into the pentagon?
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
WE NEVER SAW AN AIRPLANE ON THE VIDEO, SO SOME PEOPLE SAY IT WAS A MISSILE.

WELL, WE NEVER SAW A MISSILE ON THE VIDEO. WHERE IS THE MISSILE WRECKAGE?

I SAY IT WAS A FLOCK OF HORNY LESBIAN CHICKENS WITH LIT M-80 FIRECRACKERS STUFFED UP THEIR ASSHOLES, AND A TOWELHEAD PAINTED A WET, PURPLE, GAPING CHICKEN VAGINA ON THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING TO ATTRACT THE FLOCK OF DOOMED, GUNPOWDER-STUFFED POULTRY.

ANYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH MY CHICKENS-WITH-FIRECRACKER-HOLDING-ASSHOLES THEORY IS OBVIOUSLY A SHEEP, AMIRITE?
>> Anonymous
>>231130
Wait, there was wreckage? I was one of the crap loads of people who saw this happen in person (well, not the "crash" just the aftermath directly after) there wasn't really any wreckage...
>> Anonny
>>231130

They never released the videos of what went into the pentagon. the box under the taupaulin wasn't big enough for plane wreckage, but was big enough for missile wreckage...
>> Anonymous
does anyone know where to see the video released today?
>> omnirus
>>231143
And how many plane crashes (or crash sites) have you witnessed to draw this conclusion? I've personally seen 2 crashes and witnessed first-hand the aftermath of 4 others. Sometimes there is debris and sometimes there's virtually none. The force of impact, the heat and energy generated, and the material composition of the aircraft can basically vaporize the plane in some cases.
>> Anonymous
>>231157
The real question here is, HOW MANY DONGS HAVE YOU SUCKED MR MAN.
>> Anonymous
politics threads are dumb and so are the people in them
>> Anonymous
When there are images of a crash sight, it seems to vary with the amount of wreckage present. Some images ive seen just show a smoking crater with debris around it, whilst others have intact albeit heavily damaged fuselage. I can see how the pentagon attack lacked any visiable wreckage.
>> Anonymous
The heat of the crash was enough to vapourize the entire plane... that's why there's minimal wreckage. For the first time in history, an _entire_ plane vapourized.
But don't worry folks, we've identified 181 of the 185 passengers.
>> Anonny
>>231211

and the fuel that exploded which has a maximum burning temperature of 1100 degrees, vapourised the titanium which melts at 1600. But don't worry that's only physics..sure it vapourised if that's what the Bush administation says. They don't lie afterall, what with all the WMDs found in Iraq....oh wait.
>> Anonymous
http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm#Preloader

I don't much care for conspiracy theories, but it's a fairly well made video.
>> Anonymous
>>231117
>>231118

Don't get me wrong skepticism is good, but this is BULLSHIT. What is there to keep your mind open up to? Have the conspiracy theorists actually presented evidence? No. They've just spouted conjecture.
>> Anonymous
>>231288
Actually, I saw footage, expert analysis, scientific analysis, religious analysis, and a number of other evidences.
>> Anonymous
When you tell people that the Pentagon is reinfroced against explosions and impacts, they ignore you...
>> Anonymous
>>231291

Religous analysis. LOL.

Did you consult psychics and gurus too? Or how about the the dead?
>> Anonymous
There are two types of conspiracy believers

1) SOS brigade
2) everyone else
>> Anonymous
I believe in government conspiracies. However, I believe they are resourceful enough to use other more effective ways to stir things up rather than this kind of convoluted BS.
>> Anonymous
The problem is, people are so convinced that their government would do nothing to harm them, that they dismiss any evidence, even if it is entirely plausible, logical and scientific.

Being skeptical is good... I certainly wouldn't have believed it when I knew only the information that had been released, but most people won't even open up to the fact that they don't know everything, and won't bother to educate themselves.

Even if you're not into conspiracies, go to Isohunt and download Loose Change 2nd Edition. It's very nicely done and features a lot of reliable information. Before you know all the facts, you can't really comment on the situation, or at least expect the informed to listen to you when you do.
>> Anonymous
That's the point. It's not plausible, logical and scientific.

Yet people embrace it anyway.
>> Anonymous
The same people who are skeptical about this are the very same people who embrace Loose Change without any questions.

Go humanity!
>> Anonymous
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loose_Change_(video)
>> Anonymous
I find it funny that the conspiracy videos ignore thousands of eye witnesses, that were on the freeway as the jet flew over them and then banked into the pentagon, and focus on the the one person that's quoted saying "It sounded like a missile..."
>> Anonymous
>>231119
What happens to most things which crash into extremely fortified buildings? They go bye, bye.
>> Anonymous
>>231291
religious analysis?! I asked for evidence you dumb shit! That isn't evidence, it's conjecture!
>> Anonymous
If it really was a plane that hit it then why dont they release all the footage they conficated and and even say they have. its not like the terrorist are going to win if the nation sees a plane hit the pentagon
>> Anonymous
fuck
>> Anonymous
>>231368
why did>>230974censor himself?
>> Anonymous
You're right it was a conspiracy!

Religious fuckwit fanatics trained on our own soil to pilot planes, decided to bypass our shitty security, took over some planes and flew them into a few buildings they thought represented america. Our capitolist mecca (twin towers), our military mecca (the pentagon) and our dumbass mecca (the white house). They completed 66% of their mission.

Why do you nutjobs find this implausible? do you think airport security was hard to bypass? do you think it was hard for them to guess what planes would be full of fuel?

The hardest part was keeping passengers on the plane content. Up till then most airplane hijackings ended on land; at some random airport with passangers used as tools to gain some sort of property or policy. If the passengers had thought they were going to die they would have butt fucked all the terrorists; just as any passenger would today.
>> Anonymous
I don't believe in the conspiracy, but someone please explain the following things to me, just to get this clear:

1. Why did WTC 7 fall down?

2. Why did the towers fall down when they were made to withstand such an event, and no other building has fallen in similar circumstances, and the fuel exploded on impact?

3. Why did they explain that the Pentagon plane vaporized on impact (hence no wreckage) but they found a majority of the passengers?

4. Why were the coroners of the 4th plane crash called back because they 'couldn't find anything'?

5. Why were the marble walls on the bottom floor of the towers blown off?

To be honest, there are loads more points I'm pusszled about, but if someone could answer those, that would be lovely.

Also, for those who are interested in a physisist's analysis of the events, there's a lecture or two on this video:

http://www.bakuretsudigital.org/ftp/Videos/911_revisited.wmv
>> Anonymous
if a bomb went off inside, then the explosion would first shoot out concrete everywhere and then the fire fuktards
>> Anonymous
>>230975
It's very easy to do when you kill enough people

>>231475
The entire fucking building is falling when the explosives go off, shits already flying everywhere
>> Anonymous
>>231472
2. The heat from the burning jet fuel weakened the girders.

3. What passengers? can you give us a link? The passengers that fought back in pennsylvania were vaporised.

4. See above

5. They weren't blown off, they were pushed out by the floors above them collapsing. marble is made of fossilised fish bones and shit.
>> Anonymous
>>231487
Lies, the towers collapsed like twenty minutes after the planes hit.
>> Anonymous
Too many retards

1. Why did WTC 7 fall down?

BIG ASS FIRES with smoke seen on every floor, not enough fire fighters since most of them were on the two towers, and poor water pressure.

2. Why did the towers fall down when they were made to withstand such an event, and no other building has fallen in similar circumstances, and the fuel exploded on impact?

Fuel did not explode on impact...and they were made to withstand a jet that is trying to land on low fuel, not 500 MPH ones that have 10000 gallons of fuel.

3. Why did they explain that the Pentagon plane vaporized on impact (hence no wreckage) but they found a majority of the passengers?

The official story didn't say that. Strawman argument

4. Why were the coroners of the 4th plane crash called back because they 'couldn't find anything'?

?!

5. Why were the marble walls on the bottom floor of the towers blown off?

Because marble isn't exactly flexible and easy to break?

"If it really was a plane that hit it then why dont they release all the footage they conficated and and even say they have. its not like the terrorist are going to win if the nation sees a plane hit the pentagon"

If it was a missile, where is the trail of smoke? There is hundreds of pictures of plane debris and eyewitness accounts.

"It's very nicely done and features a lot of reliable information."

Like getting the wrong engine, using similes as evidence, American Free Press source, etc?

Here is something you might enjoy if you like Loose Change so much. http://www.ccdominoes.com/lc/LooseChangeGuide.html
>> Anonymous
DEBUNK OF LOOSE CHANGE GUIDE
http://www.ccdominoes.com/lc/LooseChangeGuide.html
>> Anonymous
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4390283994402206696&q=loose+change+911

go ~~
>> Anonymous
Ultimate debunk of all "not really a plane" conspiracy theories:

The plane was fucking full of people. You telling me the government made a plane, and all of the people in it, just disappear? Yeah fucking right.

Not to mention the fact that remains were found inside of the building.
>> Anonymous
>>230975
But it's not hidden, it's out there for anyone to come along and see it. The only reason people aren't paying attention to it is because of blind patriotism. If people can be convinced that this "conpsiracy" is just liberal nutjob crap then they'll ignore it. Not to mention that people are affraid to go against the government, they actually fear coming out with anything that is anti-bush administration for what people will say about them.

>>231491The heat from the burning jet fuel weakened the girders.

This is addressed in one of the "Loose change" videos, one of many professionals spoke in that video and gave his opinion that not only was their insufficent heat to weaken the girders significantly, there was no way in hell that they would have been weaken so much after 20 minutes that the towers would have fallen down. Remember these are buildings *designed* to take a hit from an aircraft of many things and we're supposed to believe that after 20 minutes of fire they just collapse? Whether you're republican, liberal, green or whatever your political stand point is don't you see something wrong with that?

This is what me and a lot of other people are trying to get at here. Even if you don't believe this is one very realistic conspiracy, don't you wonder why the government continiously refuses to answer a couple of harmless questions and release some video footage that would help end all this? If they've got nothing to hide then prove it, their silence smells bad. As I said, even if you don't believe in all this wouldn't you like to know yourself the answers to these questions? Wouldn't they make you feel a little safer knowing all that kind of information? Shit, I don't dismiss the idea that maybe this conspiracy is totally wrong, but that's not what I'm trying to get at. All I want is the truth, nothing more, just that elusive little thing.
>> Anonymous
>>231502
Then lets see these remains
>> Anonymous
"This is addressed in one of the "Loose change" videos, one of many professionals spoke in that video and gave his opinion that not only was their insufficent heat to weaken the girders significantly"

Which profession and who was he?

http://www.ccdominoes.com/lc/LooseChangeGuide.html
>> Anonymous
This makes me so damn mad. Everyone knows it wasn't a plane. It was alien Elvis's baby sasquatch.
>> Anonymous
Planes were real.

WOMD's were fake.

OILOILOILOILOIL
>> Anonymous
>>231513Which profession and who was he?
Honestly, off the top of my head, I don't know. Give me 10 minutes to find out and I don't reply then I failed in my task, anyone else who watched the video will know what I'm talking about so anyone feel free to help me out please.
>> eeewwwww. creamy. Anonymous
>>231497

UM... WTC 7 wasn't hit by a plane, dude...
>> Anonymous
>>231509
You think the government is going to give the public photos of the remains of the people in the planes?

Only if they want to get sued out the ass by the families of the deceased. I know I would if I were them. Aside, it's just disrespectful to said families.
>> Anonymous
>>231518
Got it: Kevln Ryan for the Underwriter Laboratories.

Let's even quote what he said: "We know that the steel components were certified to ASTM E119. The time temperate curves for this standard require the samples to be exposed to temperatures around 2000F for several hours. And as we all agree, the steel applled met those specifications.
Additionally, I think we can all agree that even unfireproofed steel will not melt until reaching red-hot temperatures of nearly 3000F. Why Dr. Brown would imply that 2000F would melt the high-grade steel used in those buildings makes no sence at all".

That's it.
>> Anonymous
KEVIN!?

HAHAHAHAHHAHA

First of all, he was part of the water department, meaning he had no credit or expertise. He didn't even work at the department that tested WTC steel. Second, he got fired because he wrote that letter, making the company look bad.

Your experts are a joke. Not a single structual engineer have said anything about bombs.
>> Anonymous
>>231529
I don't think disrepectful even registers on the radar when we're talking about clearing up what is potentionally the biggest scam for God knows how many years.
>> Anonymous
"U.L.'s Fire Protection Division has assisted NIST in its investigations regarding the collapse of the WTC towers. However, Mr. Ryan was not involved in that work and was not associated in any way with U.L.'s Fire Protection Division, which conducted testing at NIST's request. Rather, Mr. Ryan was employed in U.L.'s water testing business, Environmental Health Laboratory, in South Bend, Indiana.

"...Mr. Ryan wrote the letter without UL's knowledge or authorization. Mr. Ryan was neither qualified nor authorized to speak on UL's behalf regarding this issue. The opinions he expressed in the letter are his own and do not reflect those of Underwriters Laboratories Inc..."
>> Anonymous
>>231531
Signifigant difference between "melting" steel and "heating the steel hot enough that it loses structural integrity and collapses under the several thousand tons of weight on top of it."
>> Anonymous
PWNED
>> Anonymous
>>231534
I think it does. I wouldn't release any photos of the remains if I were the government, and I wouldn't want the pictures released if I were a relative of one of the passengers.

Besides, photographic evidence isn't necessary. I think dozens of grieving families who are missing loved ones who were on board that flight is proof enough. The only other possible explaination is that the government kidnapped the people and made them disappear some way or another. And that's even less likely than the missile explaination. I.E., bullshit.
>> Anonymous
>>231537
Well if we want to address that we can have a look at the many different cases mentioned in Loose Change video about buildings that have had fires burning in them for upto 24 hours without collapsing.
>> Anonymous
>>231542
Those buildings weren't hit by a plane going several hundred miles per hour and full of jet fuel.
>> Anonymous
>>231541photographic evidence isn't necessary
To be honest I think it does, what else do we have to go on? Something we're just told about regardless of whether there's an evidence to support it or not? That sounds extremely unsound to me.
>> Anonymous
You dumbshits, the steel doesnt have to melt to start losing its function. It only takes a few beams to bend then the weight of the whole fucking building collapses the rest.
>> Anonymous
>>231545
There's plenty of testimony from people who examined the crash site and found the remains, not to mention all the children who no longer have a father or mother. That's pretty convincing evidence to me.

But hey, what the heck? Sure, let's start demanding photographic evidence of everything from now on. Next time a president dies, I demand the autopsy report and any accompanying photographs be publicized. And hey, while we're at it, next election, I demand scans of every single balot be published in a series of large volumes and made avaliable at every public library.
>> Anonymous
hold on guys, i have a theory.

what if the plane was full of MOTHERFUCKING SNAKES!?!??!
>> Anonymous
Oh, snap!

That explains everything!
>> Anonymous
>>231550
If this is true, it means that Sammuel L. Jackson has failed us, and I refuse to accept that possibility!

"I'm tired of all these motherfuckin' Taliban on this motherfuckin' plane!"
>> Anonymous
>>231549

no one died in the pentagon crash dumbass... it was a motherfucking fake, a boeing that crash in a wall don't leave a 4x5 hole.
>> Anonymous
"Well if we want to address that we can have a look at the many different cases mentioned in Loose Change video about buildings that have had fires burning in them for upto 24 hours without collapsing."

Like the seattle building that had some tiny little plane crash into it or the fire fighters could actually GO to the source of the fire, unlike WTC7?

http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/hayden.html

http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/boyle.html

Interview with two fire fighters that were there.
>> Anonymous
Can you truely afford to trust the government to keep you safe?

One moment i hear the Geheime Staatspolizeir knocking.
>> Anonymous
>>231553
Keep in mind that the plane was moving at an extremely high speed. And it hit a heavily fortified building that was designed with bomb attacks in mind. It's not going to leave an airplane-shaped punchout hole in the wall like some goddamn cartoon. It's not going to keep it's shape as it hits the wall. Basically what you probobly had was just a mass of hot, twisted, bent-up, extremely fast-moving metal colliding in the wall. Chances are that at that point the mass of the plane was moving more like a fluid than like a plane, since all structure had been vertually destroyed at that point. And aside, the nose of a 757 is about 4x5 at the tip. see?

http://www.henrybevan.co.uk/flying/photos/757me_under_nose.jpg
>> Anonymous
Fuck photographic evidence. I want DNA testing to prove those are the remains of the people who where on that plane. You couldnt tell who they where at all in a photo, you could toss a bunch of monkies in the plane and smash it in the building, and probably wouldnt be able to tell.

I dont care how many dimwits are burried in the belief that it's a conspiracy, they're better than all of these half-wits who decide to just push it off because 'oh, the government cant hide shit.' It's always better to ask questions, and only an arogant, piece of shit fool would disagree. You arnt nearly as smart as you think, so get over it.

Release the videos of this 'plane' slamming into the pentagon, release hard evidence that the remains from the crash site are authentic, which either way probably wouldnt matter, as they could just forward dummy results anyways. Whether you believe it or not, the government is still feeding you ALL the information you get, almost regardless of where you get it. Ignor ethe so-called 'witnesses', I wouldnt trust most of them anyways, living in a country where nine out of ten cant even point out states on a political map. Americans are too debased and stupid. Take a missile and weld some flimsy wings on it, and 'Oh look, it's an airplane!'
>> Anonymous
guys, what if they plane was made of DIAMOND? i dont think the pentagon walls could resist that level of hardness.
>> Anonymous
it's been proven over and over and over and over that the crash DID happen. I dont see how anyone can still think it didnt, except people woh watched that retarded flash movie and then did NO research themselves.
>> Anonymous
>>231575
You see, this creates a trap. Any DNA evidence would have to come from the government since they were the ones who conducted the investigation. So the conspiracy theorists will never be satisfied either way.
>> Anonymous
>>231579
Whether the crash happened or not shouldnt even be the focus of the debate. The focus should be who was behind it. It dosnt seem unlikely in the least that the government seized the plane and slammed it in the building. If you choose to ignore such a possability, then you leave it to chance; and you know how chance works.

>>231583
So what? That's the way it is, it's not their fault that the government has a monopoly on information. They are not wrong for questioning the source, just like others are not wrong for researching it. Both are pursuits of truth, believe it or not. People can mock them all they want, but they're realy no better. Everyone's equally pathetic and helpless.
>> Anonymous
if the government wants to crash a plane into their own fucking building, i hope it works out for them, and i don't care about the reasons.
>> Anonymous
>>231590
I agree that everything should be questioned, but it seems to me that there is substantially more evidence to say that someone else was responsible than there is to say the government was responsible.

Eventually, it gets to the point where there is no point in arguing anymore because people analyze the evidence until they don't even know what they're analyzing anymore. The argument gets so big and convoluted that both sides run out of points and evidence, and both sides still demand more. I don't think the government was responisble, and I realize that I'm not going to convince anyone otherwise.

So why am I still posting in this thread?

Because I'm enjoying myself.
>> Anonymous
>>231595

masturbation?
>> Anonymous
>>231595
Damn, I wish my girlfriend enjoyed debating like that. She gets pissed. It was good, though.

But I agree, both sides just run out of fuel. At best, they come to a mutual understanding. I still believe the government very well had a hand in it, as well as other things. There's not much stopping them, in my opinion.
>> Anonymous
>>231599
I was part of a debate team for a few years and one of the problems I see the most when it comes to controversial issues isn't simply both sides over analyzing (but it definitely is a big problem!), but arguments don't clash with one another. By that I mean, there's evidence for and against the conspiracy argument, but everyone focuses on presenting their own evidence rather than giving a sufficient answer to the other side's arguments. The debate isn't a conclusive one because everyone is too busy arguing past one another.
>> Anonymous
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>>231575
>>231583
>>231590
>>231595
>>231599

We can tell other people about - having faith. What we had faith in. What we found important enough to fight for. It's not whether you were right or wrong, but how much faith you were willing to have, that decides the future.

Fucking Patriots.
>> Anonymous
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>>231608
not animated but I have to post it.