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Kre-Alkalyn Anonymous
Has anyone tried Kre-Alkalyn? Is it better than Monohydrate and Ethyl Ester? Is it a gimmick or is it some srs business?
>> Anonymous
gimmick
>> Anonymous
>>397761
faggot who uses monohydrate
OP use purple K, Creadex or Encharged
>> Anonymous
>>397770
suck on this dipshit

Kre-alkalyn? supplementation has no beneficial effect on creatine-to-creatinine conversion rates.

Tallon MJ1 and Child R2

1University of Northumbria, Sport Sciences, Northumbria University, Northumberland Building, Newcastle upon Tyne, United Kingdom, 2Department of Life Sciences, Kingston University, Penrhyn Rd, Kingston-upon-Thames, United Kingdom. DrTallon@CR-Technologies.net

This study examined whether KA supplementation reduced the rate of creatine conversion to creatinine, relative to commercially available CM (Creapure?). Creatine products were analyzed by an independent commercial laboratory using testing guidelines recommended by the United States Pharmacopeia (USP). Each product was incubated in 900ml of pH 1 HCL at 37? 1oC and samples where drawn at 5, 30 and 120 minutes and immediately analyzed by HPLC (UV) for creatine and creatinine.

In contrast to the claims of All American Pharmaceutical and Natural Foods Corp., the rate of creatinine formation from CM was found to be less than 1% of the initial dose, demonstrating that CM is extremely stable under acidic conditions that replicate those of the stomach. This study also showed that KA supplementation actually resulted in 35% greater conversion of creatine to creatinine than CM. In conclusion the conversion of creatine to creatinine is not a limitation in the delivery of creatine from CM and KA is less stable than CM in the acid conditions of the stomach.
>> Anonymous
>>397770
congrats, you fell for another one of the supplement industry's scams. I bet you also use nitric oxide supps
>> Anonymous
397855
Good information

My best results came from Ethyl Ester supplement.s
I bough them in powder form, wholesale as to not get butt-raped in the wallet.

Creatine should be used sparingly.
You might look into supplements such as arginine alpha keto glutamate and citrulline malate as contribute to Kreb Cycle efficiency and vascular dilation.

I stopped using creatine about 2 years ago and now only use precursors to glutamine (in AAKG) and have never had a set back since switching, but I have stopped retaining water and peeing every 5 mins.
>> Anonymous
>>397884
actually, CEE has worse absorption than CM. CM is the way to go, can't be topped.

Creatine ethyl ester rapidly degrades to creatinine in stomach acid

Child R1 and Tallon MJ2

1Department of Life Sciences, Kingston University, Penrhyn Rd, Kingston-upon-Thames, United Kingdom. 2University of Northumbria, Sport Sciences, Northumbria University, Northumberland Building, Newcastle upon Tyne, United Kingdom, DrChild@CR-Technologies.net

This study assessed the availability of creatine from three commercial creatine products during degradation in acidic conditions similar to those that occur in the stomach. They comprised of two products containing CEE (San CM2 Alpha and CE2) and commercially available CM (Creapure?). An independent laboratory, using testing guidelines recommended by the United States Pharmacopeia (USP), performed the analysis. Each product was incubated in 900ml of pH 1 HCL at 37? 1oC and samples where drawn at 5, 30 and 120 minutes. Creatine availability was assessed by immediately assaying for free creatine, CEE and the creatine breakdown product creatinine, using HPLC (UV)

After 30 minutes incubation only 73% of the initial CEE present was available from CE2, while the amount of CEE available from San CM2 Alpha was even lower at only 62%. In contrast, more than 99% of the creatine remained available from the CM product. These reductions in CEE availability were accompanied by substantial creatinine formation, without the appearance of free creatine. After 120minutes incubation 72% of the CEE was available from CE2 with only 11% available from San CM2 Alpha, while more than 99% of the creatine remained available from CM.
>> Anonymous
>>397892
continued...


CEE is claimed to provide several advantages over CM because of increased solubility and stability. In practice, the addition of the ethyl group to creatine actually reduces acid stability and accelerates its breakdown to creatinine. This substantially reduces creatine availability in its esterified form and as a consequence creatines such as San CM2 and CE2 are inferior to CM as a source of free creatine.
>> Anonymous
>>397892

397884 here,
Thanks for that study
This would explain why stomach always hurt like a mother fucker after dosage.

That is very interesting!
So the bonding makes it more volatile in a stomach acid environment while the CM molecule is simply stored until elimination.

Like they say, Don't Believe the Hype.
>> Anonymous
>>397898
you mentioned taking arginine and/or citrulline malate. neither of those administered orally will increase vasodilation. The studies that show arginine to do this used large intravaneous doses. you should however look into beta alanine. its fairly new and needs more studying, but it looks promising
>> Anonymous
>>397903

Yes, I've read several studies that have confirmed this.
The best results I ever read about were extremely minimal and inconclusive.

I took glutamine orally for years and always noticed better recovery when I was on it. Several years ago I purchased a few hundred grams of Arginine Alpha Ketoglutarate power wholesale and have used it off and on during training cycles. (I do a lot of strength/endurance training for triathlons and track/field type events in college)

What I have experienced in regard to vasodilation may very well have been psychosomatic.

I appreciate the studies and info, as I have been out of the loop for the last couple years.
Thanks again and I will investigate beta alanine!
>> Anonymous
What attracted me to AAKG was this study:

Arginine and Arginine are precursors of nitric oxide and polyamines, respectively -metabolites which participate in a number of metabolic functions. AKG supplements have been shown to promote growth hormone and insulin secretion with anabolic effects in postoperative patients. Their intermediary metabolites (glutamine & proline) may also have beneficial effects in promoting recovery from trauma. In animal studies, AKG supplementation increases levels of arginine and glutamine in skeletal muscles and stimulates immune system function compared to animals not receiving AKG. The immunomodulatory properties found with AKG suggest that it may enhance host-defense mechanisms, particularly during injury and acute stress

AKG supplements (15 grams per day for 5 months) have been shown to improve growth rates in small children. The AKG supplements resulted in elevated concentrations of anabolic (growth) hormones and amino acid metabolites, including insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF1), glutamine and glutamate. In another study of healthy men, AKG given at 10 grams per day resulted in a 20-30% elevation in insulin (another anabolic hormone), which were not observed with supplementation of either Arginine or alpha-ketoglutarate alone.

A test tube study found that AKG induces a significant increase in growth of human fibroblasts – cells with similarities to muscle fiber cells. This effect was dose-dependent, meaning that a more pronounced growth effect was noted with increasing levels of AKG (but not with increasing levels of Arginine or alpha-ketoglutarate alone).....
>> Anonymous
In one study, the anti-catabolic effects of AKG were investigated in 14 multiple trauma patients who were highly catabolic and hyper-metabolic. One group of subjects received 20 grams of AKG per day and showed a significant increase in protein turnover as well as a an increase in blood levels of insulin, growth hormone, and free amino acids (glutamine, proline and Arginine) compared to subjects not receiving AKG supplements.

References:
1. Cochard A, Guilhermet R, Bonneau M. Plasma growth hormone (GH), insulin and amino acid responses to arginine with or without aspartic acid in pigs. Effect of the dose. Reprod Nutr Dev 1998 May-Jun;38(3):331-43.
2. Jeevanandam M, Petersen SR. Substrate fuel kinetics in enterally fed trauma patients supplemented with Arginine alpha ketoglutarate. Clin Nutr 1999 Aug;18(4):209-17.

#

HOWEVER, I have never found human trials that confirmed these statements.

Dosage of 1 table spoon does give me a heck of a boner though.
>> Anonymous
>>397937
good info. thanks for posting. 10-20g a day is a lot, and 5 months is a long time to notice results. It would be interesting to see how much arginine these subjects are ingesting already through food
>> Anonymous
>>397741
>Is it better than Monohydrate and Ethyl Ester

no.