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Wednesday treat from T-Nation ZC !ZcFit7DWNs
DISSECTING THE DEADLIFT
http://www.t-nation.com/article/most_recent/dissecting_the_deadlift

>A lot of times, people today are afraid of trying something different, because they're afraid of looking foolish in the eyes of others, or because they have pre-conceived notions that prevent experimentation and learning. This article will deal with something you might have been considering for a while, but always refrained from experimenting with... the deadlift and its variations!

>Why isn't it more often used in gyms? Well, if it's even "allowed" at your gym, most guys don't include it because if they even bother to train their lower body at all, they stick with a few sets of leg extensions (after a 20-set biceps workout). Also, deadlifts are hard work.

>And that's a sad thing, because a training program based around deadlifting is the best way to completely transform your physique in record time.

>Another perceived weak point to the deadlift is that, while it's a very good overall mass builder, it's kinda hard to efficiently target certain problem areas. When you're lifting a weight, your body doesn't know that you are trying to build a specific muscle group; it only knows that it's fighting a heavy-ass weight (which could very well be a live opponent) and if you don't win, you might die on the field of battle!
>> Anonymous
>And that's a sad thing, because a training program based around deadlifting is the best way to completely transform your physique in record time.

Fukken A-Men to that, i wish someone had told me that shit back when i started.
>> Anonymous
Delicious article
>> Anonymous
I fucking love deadlifting. Best shit ever.
>> boneration !7k4hwAY0ew
Nice article but pretty superficial. The part about avoiding the mixed grip is bullshit; alternating grips per set or even per rep prevents any imbalance. If a mixed grip lets you lift more, then use it.
>> Anonymous
>>192654
I personally never enjoyed mixed grip, it feels like i'm twisting the bar. So i'm using an overhand (palms towards myself) instead.

But lovely article... But i'll stay with my standard deadlift
>> Anonymous
Can I drop deadlifts if I'm doing squats and rows already? That hits all the muscles deadlifts would, right? I don't care much about mass or strength, mostly just health and appearance.
>> Anonymous
>Are there weight plates on the ends of the bar, or angry midgets with knives? Your body doesn't know and doesn't care.

lol
>> Anonymous
OP picture is the most manliest man I have ever seen in my entire life.

He chops down trees with his hand.
>> Anonymous
>>192683
I can just imagine him going "fuck yeah" after a lift, and then snapping the bar on his knee.
>> Anonymous
>>192692
He is now my hero. I must find out more about him and his beard and those cannonball delts!
>> Anonymous
>>192679
no
>> Anonymous
>>192679

No, replace your shitty rows with deadlifts.
>> Anonymous
Is there any way I can do deadlifts properly with household items? I cannot go to the gym.
>> Anonymous
>>192784
two buckets, a stick and some sand.
>> Anonymous
>>192679
mass = health and appearance. Idiot.
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
>>192802
>mass = health and appearance
>> ZC !ZcFit7DWNs
>Nice article but pretty superficial. The part about avoiding the mixed grip is bullshit; alternating grips per set or even per rep prevents any imbalance. If a mixed grip lets you lift more, then use it.
>>192654
It's not bullshit. There are people out there who are prone to bias or bad habits more than you and I. One of my friends on the team, on training days, deadlifts double overhand with wraps. His high deadlift so far is 545.. so he must be doing something right.
>> Anonymous
>>192802
Not really. Look at Bruce Lee. That's about what I'm aiming for. OP pic is the most disgusting and nonfunctional body seen in a long time, not count >300 fatties.
>> Anonymous
>>192947
Something of a troll, but I do think that OP's pic has more bulk than is necessary for strength
>> Anonymous
>>192952
Wasn't really trying to troll. But seriously, look at those fucking thighs. LOOK AT HIS GODDAMN THIGHS! HOW FAR DO YOU THINK HE CAN RUN WITH THOSE?
>> ZC !ZcFit7DWNs
>>192955
You're aware that the word functional is subjective, right?

Instead of functional you should just say GPP, if that's what turns you on. Don't try and lump everybody else into your fetish.
>> Anonymous
>>192959
By functional I mean "able to be applied to something other than the method of training." Why lift weights if your strength can only be applied to weightlifting? What could he do other than fucking lift with a body like that? Where does he buy his pants? FUCK HIS THIGH ARE BIGGER THAN MY TORSO WHY WOULD ANYONE DO THAT TO THEMSELVES?!
>> Anonymous
>>192955
he could probably out sprint you easily
>> Anonymous
>Well, if it's even "allowed" at your gym

Some gyms ban deadlift?
>> Anonymous
>>192964
its his sport you fucking asshole. besides, lifting weights has WAY more carryover to real life than being a pussy and jogging 5k
>> Anonymous
>>192970
In sovjet russia, deadlift BANS YOU !!
>> Schultzie
ZC welcome to fit. its like herding cats. very stupid cats
>> Schultzie
I read this article yesterday, was very good. i learned the difference between a clean stance deadlift and a conventional
>> Anonymous
>>192973
Actually I'm in the Marines and running is more useful for me at least.

I've never had to lift more than 100 pounds over my head in my life. But I've had to run alot.
>> Anonymous
>>192970
yes, they are afraid of legal issues if you break your back.
>> Anonymous
>>192973
Um, unless you stack boxes for a living, cardiovascular endurance has way more carryover than muscle size/obscene strength.
>> Anonymous
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-I4auFt8uCM

Frank doing a hyena deadlift.
Ouch my back hurts just from watching.
>> Schultzie
>>192980
weightlifting make you better at distance running. ill dig up an Eric Cressey article. wither way, people against deadlifting are fighting a losing battle
>> Schultzie
http://www.performbetter.com/catalog/matriarch/MultiPiecePage.asp_Q_PageID_E_195_A_PageName_E_Cresse
yfiveresistance
>> Moonmauler !!LgNbdvCFAuN
>>192980
>Actually I'm in the Marines
>I've never had to lift more than 100 pounds over my head in my life.

What are you, some scrawny ass pogue? The dudes I know in the infantry are all big and strong as hell.

>>192986
When am I ever going to *need* to run 26.2 miles?
>> Anonymous
>>192996weightlifting make you better at distance running.
If you train for muscular endurance rather than strength or hypertrophy I'd imagine so. But ZC's boytoy clearly hasn't done that, and I don't recall dead lifts ever being touted by marathon runners. Still I'd be interested in reading that article.
>> Schultzie
>>193003
most of the stuff they put you through in bootcamp is to build up mental endurance, its not necissarily the best for you body. ie i have a friend in the Canadian forces who said they had to do 3 hours straight of medicine ball training. that's catabolic. but it makes you mentally tough
>> Schultzie
>>193004
deadlifts are a must for EVERYBODY, as it is pretty much the most functional exercise in existance. regardless of the sport you play, or what you daily activity is.

the elderly benefit from it
females benefit
basketball
marathon runners
etc etc


maybe rock climbers wouldn't do it if they are SUPER hardcore into rock climbing and cant afford ANY extra lbs where they dont need it, but i doubt that.

the guy in the op pic is just an example of someone who deadlifts competitively. it is NOT what you will look like if you deadlift, NOT EVEN FUCKING CLOSE. please. getting that big and strong is far far out of your mental capability.
>> Anonymous
>>192983
So what about squats or overhead stuff? Banning one of the best all body exercises for fear of being sued just shows how retarded american't is
>> Schultzie
pretty much every untrained individual needs more muscle mass. this does not equal HUEGS. its more like 10lbs of muscle or so. deadlifts are the best way to add it.

honestly the health benefits from deadlifting make it the king of exercises. it DOESN't make you some huge immobile hulk, and you are cheating yourself out of great benefits by being too much of a pussy to deadlift
>> Anonymous
>>193012
Don't ask me. There are gyms that won't even allow grunting, cause it creates a musclehead atmosphere. Can't allow that in a christian gym.
>> Sponge !!5qxfxHYSQxJ
zc fuck off you dong your input isn't welcome anywhere faggot
>> Schultzie
>>193012
true

the deadlift used to be called the health lift.

i have been warned at a gym for deadlifting and told that it wasn't a "real" exercise
>> Anonymous
>>193011it is NOT what you will look like if you deadlift, NOT EVEN FUCKING CLOSE. please.
I never said that, I originally stated that I didn't want excessive muscle mass and pointed to OP's pic as an example of the type of body I didn't want. Still, I'd like to see what makes deadlifts so magical, they're a good compound exercise but if another one can get the same muscles worked I don't see how it wouldn't be as effective. Great article, by the way.
>> Anonymous
I started lifting 3 months ago and since then have come to realize what I weakling I was/am.
I always thought I was tough, when in fact I did not even have normal musculature.
Squats, Deadlift and Bench, FUCK YEAH, thanks fit, you showed me the light.
>> Anonymous
>>192992
Frank is an idiot... nuff said
>> Schultzie
>>193018
holy fuck /fit/ is like the middle ages of health and fitness. so much denial, fear, bad information, superstition, and persecution
>> Anonymous
>>193020i have been warned at a gym for deadlifting and told that it wasn't a "real" exercise
What the fuck? Seriously, what the fuck kind of gym was that?
>> Anonymous
>>193024
compound exercises for the fucking win
>> Sponge !!5qxfxHYSQxJ
>>193027

holy fuck you overanalyse the internet
>> Anonymous
>>193026
Yes he is an idiot, funny video nonetheless.
>> Schultzie
>>193022
deadlifts are just the best posterior chain exercize

the posterior chain is like the engine of your body, without a strong engine, you cannot apply real world force in any direction.
>> Sponge !!5qxfxHYSQxJ
deadlifts shmedlifts if it aint gonna get me bigger biceps i don't care
>> Anonymous
>>193022
Because there isnt any other fucking excercise that trains THAT many muscles that effectively.

So THATS why deadlift = good
>> Anonymous
>>193003
31 years old.

4 years 0311, then another 6 in Recon before I got an honorable discharge since I received a back injury from fucking up on a jump.

5'8" 140-150 lbs the entire time. There are more big guys in infantry. In Recon most had a slim-average build. A few big guys but most failed out in screening. For a 6' guy most are 160-180 lbs. And Recon is much more physically demanding. There are no uses for being huge except aesthetics. It just makes doing things besides lifting weights harder since you have more weight to carry around.

When am I ever going to pick up more than 200 lbs in dead weight, ever? The most you need to lift IRL is a person on your back. Hardest part of training was the 15-20 mile ruck march with a 60 pound pack.
>> Anonymous
>>193047
And I'm not discouraging weight training, I do it multiple times a week. Just not things that aggravate my back any more. It's necessary. But IRL I don't see you needing to lift that much after being able to pick someone up, besides in the weight room, ever.
>> Schultzie
>>193044
It actually probably indirectly/directly does give you bigger biceps lol
>> Schultzie
>>193049
you exert 100% effort on loads far above what you would see irl, so that everything irl takes only 5% effort to move
>> Anonymous
I hate the faggots in this board that come on and see guys that are dedicated athletes in one of the hardest sports in the world, who train harder than anyone and eat stricter than anyone, and its like "OMFG USELESS GROS I CAN SPRINTZ AND DO FUNCTIONAL LIFT."

Does the average person ever have to lift that weight? No. But does the average person ever have to sprint away from danger or run a mile without stopping? No. Living an average life means you can get by being 15lbs overweight and running a 16 minute mile.

And if you think body builders and strength trainers have low endurance, fucking watch them do their cardio. They run for hours. Are they as fast as the fastest sprinters? No. Do they run farther than the best distance runners? No. But do they perform far above average levels? Yes.

OP Pic guy has put time and effort into building the body he wants and the strength he wants. I dont want to be quite as big as my goal, but I want to be big. Bigger than that tiny fag Bruce Lee. And the reason BL didnt get bigger probably wasnt some bullshit speed excuse, he probably just couldn't do it.
>> Anonymous
>>193053
Not possibly and not indirectly.
There has been a study comparing groups that did deadlifts and curls.
The deadlift group had bigger biceps after some time.
>> Anonymous
>>193047
>>193049
When will you ever need to throw a oddly shaped ball 100 yards??
When will you ever need to hit a hard black rubber disc with a twig from a tree?
When will you ever need to hit a elevated paperbin with a hugeass ball made of cowhide??

i think you get "our" drift...
>> Sponge !!5qxfxHYSQxJ
if i can't curl it i'm not interested.
>> ZC !ZcFit7DWNs
>>192977
Yeah I've realized that by now. So I choose to just throw some shit out there and otherwise not pay attention here.
>> Schultzie
>>193059
>>193059
fucking a man. besides, why the fuck are people taking advice from the 70s? people did alot of stupid shit back then. LIKE DIE FROM ORGAN FAILURE BECAUSE YOUR BODYFAT WAS TOO LOW. oops
>> Sponge !!5qxfxHYSQxJ
>>193064

the stupid cats don't like you
>> Schultzie
yeah how many people run 20k each day to work. you dont HAVE to do it
>> Anonymous
>>193060
If you could find that study I'd be really interested in reading it.
>> Anonymous
>>193061
The argument was whether being huge or being able to run would be more useful in your every day life.

I explained why running and endurance type things were more beneficial to me.
>> Anonymous
>>193074
Endurance transfers to cardiovascular health. How many people have to not die of a heart attack everyday? FUCKING EVERYONE!
>> Moonmauler !!LgNbdvCFAuN
>>193047
You get more benefits from being very strong other than just being able to lift the weight. For example sprinters will lift with heavy weights to get faster.

Funny thing is, is that I bet the guy in the pic is a faster sprinter than the tons of faggots in this thread going ZOMG UZELESS MUSSELS.

As for the lifting 200lbs part, I know it's not the exact same thing as deadlifting, but when I used to do masonry work I would have to mix the mortar and get it all set up. That meant filling a wheelbarrow full of the stuff so it weighed 250 lbs, then pushing it up a rocky hill and pushing it down the decline, all the while making sure not to spill it. THEN I had to fill 5 gallon buckets up with that shit and haul them up three stories of scaffolding. I needed all the strength I could fucking get.
>> ZC !ZcFit7DWNs
>>193047
ERRRRRRRR

That's pretty moto. I'll admit I'm just a fuckin beach bum pogue hanging out in Cali.
>> Anonymous
>>193085
I was able to dead lift around 340 or so a few years ago. Bench was 280.

I put effort into it to get stronger. Of course.

I just don't see the need to get huge to put up bigger numbers. I could have sat around eating 6000 calories a day and got up to 170 lbs (buff for my height) but it would have been a negative for me.
>> ZC !ZcFit7DWNs
>>193092
Although lifting heavy shit actually applies to me as a Marine, since i'm on the varsity PL team.
>> Anonymous
I hate deadlifts. That's why they are included in my cycle.
>> Anonymous
Muscles are icky. But at least they show who has the small dicks and the need to compensate!
>> Schultzie
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>>193100
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
>>193106
>> Anonymous
>>193109
HOLY SHIT THAT'S AWESOME
>> Anonymous
I was in the Marines too, and i went from 5'11" 190 lbs to 175 lbs. Lost muscle in training.

was pissed.
>> Anonymous
>>193109
Holy fucking shit that horse's eyes creep me the fuck out.
>> Anonymous
>>193047
Ah, that completely explains it for me, being in the Recon there's no way in hell you'd want to be that big. As you said it simply wouldn't pay off. However not all situation require you to be as "nomadic." With your frame and size would you want to be an artillery loader or some such activity which requires very limited distance, but moving alot of weight over that distance? That being said good luck with your back.
>> Schultzie
     File :-(, x)
>>193109
>> ZC !ZcFit7DWNs
>>193118
Yeah. Conversely, the guys who work in the tracks are in the 6mi club, don't do shit but sit in a fuckin vehicle, shoot test, and lift. At one point I heard a story of a whole company being put on blast because the CO couldn't simply NJP 40% of the company for juicing. lols
>> troll
wouldn't deadlifting probably help prevent further damage/aggravation of your back?
>> Schultzie
in the army, they want to keep the costs of soldiers cheap. You are probably stronger and faster and have more endurance at 200lbs, but that's going to cost the army 7000 calories a day worth of food to maintain that body. when they can probably get the same stuff done with a 2500 calorie per day body with a lighter frame. also when you are fighting on the field, your body has to be used to getting smashed to shit, and having little or no food and water to run on. hence a smaller lighter frame. if that wasn't an issue, a more muscular individual would do far better
>> Anonymous
>>193125

yes, you dont fix a weak and sore back by avoiding training it.
>> boneration !7k4hwAY0ew
>>192941
Yeah, I should have been a little clearer. Nothing wrong with a straight-up overhand grip with straps! I would just hate to see folks limit their DL because they were afraid to mix grip or use aids.
>> Anonymous
>>193138

what i like to do is use overhand grip for all of my warmup sets, and once the weight gets too heavy ill use a mixed grip. this keeps my grip strength
>> Anonymous
Back injury on a jump? Special Ops? Bear Grylls?
>> Anonymous
>>193134
>>193125
Doctor said not to aggravate it, if i don't want to be on pain pills for the rest of my life. I dead lift and squat light now. Really light. I use to go balls out.
>> Anonymous
>>193125
Pushing your back when it's injured is a sure fire way to be a dumbass.
>> Anonymous
So basically it comes down to what you do with your life, if getting bigger is beneficial or not.
>> Anonymous
>>193156
....but you should still deadlift regardless of how big you want to be
>> Anonymous
>>193152
why did you injure it? being a faggot? wrong form? thats not my problem now is it
>> Anonymous
>>193160
I have no idea how he injured it. I was calling you a dumb ass for telling him to push it when injured.
>> Anonymous
>>193161
i didn't say to push it now did i you stupid bitch
>> Anonymous
While that guy being in a tactical military team is an acceptable reason for not getting huge, playing WoW all day and being too much of a pussy isn't.

Training hard for work in a different way, is fine. You still obviously have to be in great shape to do that. Just a different size is preferred.

Training with 5 pound weights and living on cheetos and soda, however, is not bad ass, and does not make you cool.

clearing that up for any 15 year olds who misconstrued the discussion between the militaryfags ITT.
>> Anonymous
>>193181an acceptable reason for not getting huge
You don't need a reason not to be ugly. You can be both healthy and strong without getting huge. Getting huge is nothing but an ego trip. If you like the look then great, but don't trick yourself into thinking nonhuge guys are somehow sacrificing strength.
>> Anonymous
hmmm /fit/ i always wondered why when I saw pictures of SEALS and Rangers and etc... why they did not look like guys from 300.

The more you know.
>> Anonymous
>>193195
Because they are not airbrushed?
>> Anonymous
>>193188
but please be aware that usually, huge guys are stronger. and there are upper limits and severe reduction in gains if you prevent weight gain
>> Anonymous
>>193195
Movie aesthetics - Ripped abs, low body fat

Real life every single day hard work - You want a little extra body fat stored as fuel
>> JEEBOS
Someone delete this fucking thread already.