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Anonymous
Lift when your muscles are still sore from your previous workout, y/n?
>> Guil
>>42807
fuck no
>> Lil Dreamer !UYwMl8CsAs
>>42807
only if you're going to work out muscle groups that you didn't work out the day before or 2 days before.
>> Anonymous
>>42809
>Only if you're going to do muscles that aren't sore.

Fixed. Giving arbatrary timeframes is fail.
>> Anonymous
Definately.

Sore muscles need rest.

Working them out is both a waste of time and painful and damaging.
>> Anonymous
but what about boxers? dont they train every day till failure?
>> Anonymous
>>42834
different kinds of failure really. failure under heavy resistance takes longer to recover from.
>> Anonymous
Is there any way to speed up recovery? Not to workout more often but just to stop the pain.

I just started a new routine and today was leg day which is like shittons of squats and front squats and lunges and shit. I get the feeling that I'm gonna be in all kinds of pain tmr.

If I stretch a lot over the evening would that help?
>> Anonymous
>>42838
Boxers (unless heavyweights) don't usually train with weights that much, or at all. It's usually more aerobic and power based exercises. They don't want to build huge muscles, it makes you slower. So on days when they train till failure the exercises usually consist of sparring, jump rope, heavy bag, speed bag, and one on one technique practice.

I'm an amateur boxer and when i'm training for a fight i rarely use weights, when i do its after a nice sparring session and its low weight/high rep to tone and build endurance muscle. When i'm at school and not training and just usually lift but never when im sore. But the worst part of it is seeing all the nice muscle i just got burn away when i start training for a fight again.
>> Anonymous
>>42842
yes. peri and post workout nutrition are the most accessible ways for a normal person to do this. google post workout drink. consume the same thing during your workout for peri-workout nutrition.

if you're into resistance training, stretching can have a detrimental effect on performance if done improperly, and can cause injury do to creating too much movement in the joint. usually you want to stretch dynamically before lifting weights. maybe gentle post workout static stretching to increase blood flow. hard static stretching will probably increase recovery time by taxing the muscles too much, so exercise some common sense.
>> Anonymous
>>42846
>>They don't want to build huge muscles, it makes you slower

see, this is an issue for me. lifting weights will only make you slower if you lift them wrong. this idea is based on willfull ignorance and you can only come to it by ignoring years of research. unfortunately, a lot of weightlifting in the us has done this. most of it is still based on bodybuilding.

if you lift like a typical bodybuilder, then yes, it could have detrimental effects on speed. but correct weightlifting is the best way of improving explosiveness and power developement, period. you might have a valid concern about maintaining weight class, but then a correct approach would have minimal gains in bodyweight anyway, as limit strength is more about cns efficiency than it is about cross-sectional muscle area.

in short, rawr.
>> Anonymous
>>42862
"Make you slower" is trainer-speak for "more time in the ring, you lazy motherfucker!"

The sort of training that would cause a great increase in strength without a corresponding increase in bodymass taxes the CNS heavily. This causes things like reaction times to go down. A fighter with bad reaction time is going to take a lot more shots while sparring than he should going into a fight.

Weights have a place in the boxing gym, but I don't think they fit into every fighter's regimen.
>> Anonymous
>>42876here.

I meant to say reaction times go UP.
>> Anonymous
>>42862
I'm sorry, were you not paying attention when I said i lift when not training for a fight? If I had no muscle mass i clearly would win zero fights. For a boxer to be effective in the ring he needs months of training with weights to build lean muscle and explosive power just like you've said. But when in training for an upcoming fight, which usually entails a month or two of intense aerobic activity a boxer does not lift 3 to 4 days a week. A boxer may lift one day a week depending on his regiment, otherwise you use weights sparingly for building explosive power and endurance muscle like I said. Regular lifting while in training while cause strength increases (which your not really looking for) and eventually slow down your punches. I mean how do you expect your biceps to recover when you lift monday, then for the rest of the day and tues you spar/heavybag till failure, and then lift again on wedn? I'm not saying your not partially right but lifting while in intense training can be counterproductive, ask any boxer or MMA/UFC guy.

Course there are the guys that wont touch weights and only do body mass resistance exercises like pushups, pullups, burpees, etc.....but thats a whole other story.
>> Anonymous
>>42876
actually no. stimulating the cns should make your reaction time improve, as well as co-ordination because the cns is responsible for both these things. what you're actually talking about is recovery time, so get your logic-train sorted. this means you are trying to do too many things in one workout. this would be like a footballer trying to do all his technical work, strength developement and endurance training in one workout, and then using this workout for all their training. which i think you can agree is fucking stupid.

so what you get down to is correct periodisation of training in order to allow proper recovery time for each system between different sessions. so you're using different sessions each with a different focus to develope different areas.

periodisation is win.
>> Anonymous
>>42883
no, you are not listening to what i am saying.

>>Regular lifting while in training while cause strength increases (which your not really looking for) and eventually slow down your punches.

this is bullshit. the ability to express strength is entirely dependant on speed. maximal lifting cannot be done without maximal explosiveness. you're getting your terms confused because you don't understand them to begin with. so much so you've actually contradicted yourself in your post. i'll leave it to you to workout where.

your very definition of strength is wrong to begin with. look up a guy called joe defranco. his site should help you understand the term as it relates to sport, which is the only worthwhile use of the term anyway.
>> Guil
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>low weight/high rep to tone
Toning muscle?
>> Anonymous
>>42892
We're agreeing past each other here.
>> Anonymous
>>42908
i'll agree with you motherfucker!

yeah, you're probably right.
>> Anonymous
>>42910
Nice to see another sport science nerd on /fit/. Ever read Supertraining? I think that book actually scared some of the smart out of me...
>> Anonymous
>>42903
So i went to joe defranco's site, it was nice. I especially liked the section of testimonials which consisted of all football and baseball players. Oh by the way, boxing and football are totally the same fucking sport and require the same fucking physical demands. But you are correct, I am getting my terms wrong. When I say strength I mean high muscle tone and the ability to lift a large amount. When I say explosive power I mean the ability to hit you in the face with a 1000 pounds of force coming from the legs through the hips and from my shoulders to your jaw with correct form so I can block any incoming punches after the initial hit. Lifting a large amount while training to do this will interrupt my form and make me "slower". Also lifting a large amount will make my arm and shoulder muscles a bit heavier, which sucks when your trying to keep them up for 18 minutes and their getting creamed. Lifting takes away my time to train them to toughen and endure pain with the muscle i have, not just recover from tiny micro fractures. Of course it does depend on your weight class and regiment. Clearly your an exercise science major /entrepreneur which is fine, but from the sounds of it you've never boxed in your life. Try it sometime.

also look up kelly pavlik sometime. low muscle tone, barely touches weights, but has enough explosive power to knock you out anytime.
>> Anonymous
>>42971
i have done some boxing, but mostly grappling. also karate. i also know a couple of professional boxing coachs who are aiba certified to coach at an olympic level, so i know that a lot of boxers are still training like it's 1969. you're learning, but you're still wrong about a bunch of stuff. for example, the stronger you become, the easier it will be to hold your arms up; it has to do with strength percentages. but that's ok, because maybe now you'll head out and aquire real knowledge that can help you. i am also aware that different people respond differently to different exercise regimes so ymmv as compared to anything i say. good luck.

>>42915
i want that book so fucking bad. can't find it anywhere around here, and i don't have $200 to buy it online.
>> Anonymous
>>42971
also, 'tone' just means low body fat in most of the cases it is used. 'tonal muscles' are something else, so fuck all you pedants who are now going to bring that one up.