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Stabalizer muscle development theory, input Please. Anonymous
Ok /fit/ I need to run something by you guys.

You all know how there's this stigma about weighted gym machines, where they don't help you develop stabalizer muscles and such, well I believe this to be mostly true, I don't actually know how important stabalizer muscles are
Anyways

I'll leave a tl;dr at the bottom for the lazy people.
I have this THEORY that I thought of myself, theres no data behind it, but it goes like this.
Lets say you go to the gym, and completely destroy your upper body muscles; work them out till no end, become an oversized piece of useless beef, etc
But then you buy yourself a kayak, and use your big beefy muscles to push the boat as hard as you can. Since your stabalizer muscles will have no choice but to try to catch up to your bigger muscles, won't you're smaller stabalizer muscles get an intense workout, and thus catch up to your larger muscles?
Kayaks work on rotation [360 degrees] of each muscle group unlike machines which only target 1 degree, so every muscle in your arm, back, abdomin, etc has no choice but to push to keep up with that explosive 1 degree of machine-made muscle.

Tl;Dr, can extreme kayaking push your stabalizer muscles to catch up with your beefy machine-made muscles and give you an overall kickass, healthy, balanced body?
>> Anonymous
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That is the best idea ever.
>> Anonymous
I suffer from this problem. I'm going to try jiujtisu and yoga to remedy it.
>> Anonymous
If you want stabilizers, train with dumb bells. Basic dumbbell exercises require shit fucking tons of stabilizer recruitment.
>> Anonymous
>>352867
yeah but this method seems to allow you to push your muscle and bulk up like you would normally do on a machine, since machines hit target muscles with alot more accuracy.

>>352850
sarcasm? am I missing something that makes this entire idea retarted or ami doinit rite?
>> Anonymous
wrong in some many places

1st. your commentary about 'getting big beefy muscles from weightraining' JUST DOESNT FUCKING HAPPEN. you sound like a god damn woman asking if she'll get 'too bulky' from doing anything other tahn pink dumbells. hey, guess waht. you'll spend your whole life NEVER nearing your genetic potential for muscle growth (~15-30lbs) so fuck you you

2nd. body will likely shutdown primary mover hypertrophy if stabilizers are not growing as well. this is simple, because the BODY doesnt give a SHIT if you are big, it just wants to be efficient and NOT INJURIED. (sure, bodybuilders/some rare examples,--->on vitamin S) and EVEN if you do some how manage to get consistantly bigger, the amount of dysfunction would be incredible...like holy.shit. you'd keep my PT friends in business for life.

3rd. you are an asshole. and you are looking for an excuse to NOT do free weights.

well /fit/ wont enable you to stick to your gay machines so fuck off
>> Anonymous
>>352894
1# Machines suck at muscle development. They don't come even close to what you can reach using free weights.

2# You don't understand what a stabilizer is, it's not a different muscle, it can be any for that matter, its job is to tense itself enough for you to do an exercise while keeping yourself balanced.

As an example, in any push exercise, your biceps works as a stabilizer while your triceps is doing the main job. In any pull exercise, the roles change around.
>> Anonymous
whenever you do real life things, lifting, pushing heavy shit around, you use all your muscles. primary and stabilizer.

weak stabilizer muscles lead to INJURY.

here's why:
let's say you've been going to the gym for a year and your biceps are really big now, and you can curl 50 lbs 20 reps no problem.

so your friend has a piano she wants you to move (so you agree knowing you can get a blowjob from her later). so you flex your guns and push with all your strength and suddenly

CRACK something goes wrong, even though your biceps are strong, the rest of your arm muscles are weak so you end up lifting something beyond your weight.

YOU FUCKED UP, your biceps are fine but you snapped your elbow because the muscles that support your elbow are stablilizers and haven't caught up with your ridiculously overworked biceps.

so to answer your question OP: NO, pushing a kayak after spending shittons on machines won't make up for the fact that you've been neglecting your stabilizers this whole time, you're prob. going to injure yourself and snap your spine.

thanks for playing.
>> Anonymous
>>352898

>3rd. you are an asshole. and you are looking for an excuse to NOT do free weights.

yes.
but I tried
I admit I dunno what I'm talking about
I hate free weights and thought that this would be a plausable way to not have to use them
I also still have no fucking idea what you're talking about
I was pretty sure stabalizer muscles were secondary muscles alligned with your majour muscle groups as included as a part of that major muscle group, and that these muscles would develop but won't develop as well with machines, because machines are pre-stabalized.

and I never said anything about being too bulky, what the fuck? quote it. I said that if you put your all into a Machine you will get 1 degree of super strong muscle, while if you push yourself with freewieghts you will get a quality muscle build, to counter the lack of quality and inbalance in your machine work out, a kayak could be used to re-develop them

It still makes total sense to me, come back and try to use your grammar just a bit better if you want to tell me how my idea is wrong, which I'm fine with.
>> Anonymous
>>352939

Muscle Movement Classification

Agonist

A muscle that causes motion.

Antagonist

A muscle that can move the joint opposite to the movement produced by the agonist.

Target

The primary muscle intended for exercise.

Synergist

A muscle that assists another muscle to accomplish a movement.

Stabilizer

A muscle that contracts with no significant movement to maintain a posture or fixate a joint.

Dynamic Stabilizer

A biarticulate muscle that simultaneously shortens at the target joint and lengthens at the adjacent joint with no appreciable difference in length. Dynamic stabilization occurs during many compound movements. The dynamic stabilizer assists in joint stabilization by countering the rotator force of an agonist. See example diagram: Hamstring weakness (during squat or leg press)

Antagonist Stabilizer

A muscle that contracts to maintain the tension potential of a biarticulate muscle at the adjacent joint. The antagonist stabilizer may be contracted throughout or at only one extreme of the movement. Also see active insufficiency. The Antagonist Stabilizer are activated during many isolated exercises when biarticulate muscles are utilized. The Antagonist Stabilizer may assist in joint stabilization by countering the rotator force of an agonist. For example, the Rectus Femoris contracts during lying leg curl to counter dislocating forces of Hamstrings. See knee flexion abduction force vector diagram (Rectus Femoris and Tibialis Anterior).


ANY MUSCLE CAN DO ANY FUNCTION. WHAT IT DOES DEPENDS ON THE ACTION BEING TAKEN.

A kayak won't do shit, because the resistances are shit.
>> Anonymous
op: brb eating food
and just skimming so far, thanks for telling me what stabalizers are, haven't read thoroughly.

I still want a kayak, amazing cardio.
>> Anonymous
>>352954
No one is saying that a kayak is bad for you. What we're saying is that it won't do shit for training muscles as stabilizers, if you normally train with high resistance equipment.
>> Anonymous
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>>come back and try to use your grammar just a bit better if you want to tell me how my idea is wrong

sorry OP, i'd come back to slit your throat ear to ear. you got balls asking for that again, but unlike that consist load of fat, whiny, sacks of shit i deal with EVERY fucking day, you dont pay me bank, so fuck you

>>I hate free weights and thought that this would be a plausable way to not have to use them

picture is related, just imagine you arent a cyber demon, but a lowly, shotgun toting grunt
>> Anonymous
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>>352931
>>352952
These two posts actually made sense

>>352898
>>353002
These didn't

thanks for teaching me shit /fit/, and to the raging internet tough guy, calm the fuck down. I was only proposing an idea in a subject I know very little about so that I'd get a bit more education on the subject, which worked, minus your shitty random posts.

>but unlike that consist load of fat, whiny, sacks of shit i deal with EVERY fucking day, you dont pay me bank, so fuck you

the more I read this, the more I laugh. I seriously have no fucking idea what you're trying to say.
but anyways, thanks for the input everyone.

Also to internet tough guy, were you the creator of that store in the picture I uploaded by any chance?
>> Anonymous
>>353062
internet tough guy?

a new one

its just i could tell that you were honestly such a disgusting, mentally lazy fucktard that you werent trolling...but truly wanted to find a way out of 'doing hard work'.

in my line of work, clinical cardiac rehab, patients like you are the ones i wished the EMTs showed up 4 minutes later...

you dont get to call names because you lack basic logic processes and comprehension.

to put it simply. fuck you.
>> Anonymous
>>353076
still have no idea what you're talking about
I do do free weights btw, not machines, so I don't think I'll have any interaction with your line of work.

and getting out of doing the hardwork isn't what I'm into, if I was, I'd be doing steroids. I thought this process would be more efficient overall, speed, strength and stability all included.

stop getting so angry, jeezus christ, or are you trolling, dont know anymore.

I would probably ask you WHAT'S UR BEEF, but I really don't give a shit.

it has come to the point where I have to sage my own thread, I have the information I need.