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Anonymous
yo /fit/ I tried a new workout cycle today (arms and back) with weight in between 55-75% of my maximum it went like this:

-Bench press 2 x 15
-Bar curl 2 x 15
-Lat pull down 2 x 15
-Close grip bench 2 x 15
-Back extensions with 25 lb weight 2 x 15
-Hammer curls 2 x 15
-Military press 2 x 15

Now I feel like I worked a lot and everything I wanted to work, but what does /fit/ think?
Pic unrelated but hilarious.
>> Anonymous
Forgot your legs.
>> Anonymous
I'm doing leg workouts on a seperate day.
>> Anonymous
>I tried a new workout cycle today (arms and back)
>>128868
>I tried a new workout cycle today (arms and back)
>>128868
>I tried a new workout cycle today (arms and back)
>>128868
>I tried a new workout cycle today (arms and back)
>>128868
>I tried a new workout cycle today (arms and back)
>>128868
>I tried a new workout cycle today (arms and back)
>>128868

Learn to fucking read you stupid piece of shit. Get the fuck out. I hate ignorant pricks.

PROTIP: If you are going to act like a pompous know-it-all dick, you should read the entire post. Fuckwit.
>> OP
>>128871

bless you anon :)
>> Anonymous
>>128871

Oh I'm sorry, I'm not a silly Amerifag. Cycle over here is basically in equal correlation with program, so I believed he meant that was his entire routine.

Jesus Christ, you would think you would be slightly nicer, given how jolly you all are.
>> Anonymous
lower reps if you are getting around 75% of max most the time
>> OP
>>128885
hmm, well I was trying to go til failure at the end of the two sets. Also I wanted to say I only intend to do this workout (arms and back section) once a week along with all the other parts of my body. So it would be Core on Monday, Arms/back on Wednesday, and then Leg work on Friday. I'm thinking about doing a few short runs in between workout days or over the weekend, but they would be less than 20 minutes max.

Does /fit/ see anything wrong with the workouts in question? is there anything I could add to improve? I was thinking of adding in upright row for more tricep and deltoid work.
>> Anonymous
>>128878
He's asking for our opinion/feedback, which probably indicates he's a newbie. Using terminology incorrectly is common (ie reps vs sets, clips vs magazines, that sort of thing), and you should've been able to spot that in the very obvious context, britfag.
>> Anonymous
>>128914

That wasn't in obvious context at all, considering it's a very common practice for new-lifters to completely ignore their lower body.

Even then, he shouldn't be doing a routine with so much isolation.

Amerifag.
>> Anonymous
You cant do 15 reps with 75% of your max. Not possible
>> Anonymous
>>128922

On Meth it is.
>> Anonymous
Ok it was probably 65% now if I calculate it out. yes I'm a newb :) just a friendly anon asking for advice. I'm also reading starting strength which I got or /rs/
>> sage
>I'm also reading starting strength which I got or /rs/

Start doing it as soon as possible.
>> Kanader
>>128905
I realize you can't go full-on right away, but you should plan on building up to this eventually. Take it slow, because it's better to do something consistently than to go nuts and burn out.

As far as grouping, I would do your core and legs on the same day; the exercises go really well together. However, since you're doing 3 days a week, then breaking it up the way you have it is fine; but if you go for four days, then I would group it the way I said and alternate between those two.

As far as percentage of maximum, the optimum is as close to, without going over, 75% of your maximum for strength training. You should try not to do more than 12 reps in a set; with two sets. You can supplement this with endurance training, by dropping another 25% off the weight and doing sets of 25 reps, until exhaustion.

As far as cardio, you should try to aim for at least 30 minutes, and it should always take priority over strength training. Time allowing, you can do both in a day. Also, that 30 minutes doesn't have to be all at once; it can be two 15 minute sessions, or whatever, so long as you have a sufficient heart rate during that time.

Lastly, don't neglect proper stretching, before and after, as well as warm-ups and cool-downs. This will help prevent strains, and will make your workout more effective.
>> OP
Oh yeah and I don't intend to ignore my legs, or half ass it on machines any more, although I still need to figure out a set of exercises for them =/
>> Anonymous
>>128919
You're persistant in justifying your obvious mistake. Let's dissect this.
>I tried a new workout cycle today (arms and back)
that should've been all you needed, he went so far as to indicate which muscles he was going to be focusing on for "today"'s "cycle", if "cycle" and "today" seemingly contradict each other in your dialect, that should've been a dead giveaway that he might've been using it in a way you weren't used to or incorrectly.

Have you never spoken to a foreigner or something? Does everybody you know speak in a relatively uniform way where you live, without ever messing up terminology or using it in a way you're unaccustomed to? If yes, you're far more culturally sheltered than all but the worst rural shut-ins here in the states.

And if that wasn't enough, all the workouts he listed are
A: Reasonably compounded (sans the curls and back extension, which is forgiveable).
B: All at least partially work the arms and/or back, further enforcing the context.
>> OP
>>128929
Ahh this entire workout thing is confusing. Someone told me I need to build a good foundation first so thats why I'm start the first few weeks off with high reps and lower weight. Should I not do that?

To be perfectly clear with you I am training for A) a martial art and B) to look good and gain some muscle mass/strength.
>> sage
     File :-(, x)
>>128936

tl:dr

Go drink some Budweiser and beat your fat wife.
>> OP
please no flaming I'm trying to get some quality advice =/
>> Anonymous
>>128936
>>128944
>You're right I lose lol
fix'd
also, sage goes in the email field
>> Kanader
>>128940
No, it's good to start slow. A lot of people make the mistake of going hardcore the first day and then quit soon after. That was more of a long-term plan.

Advice for tomorrow? 75% weight, 12 reps, 2-3 sets. Moar cardio.
>> Anonymous
>>128940
yes, it's perfectly ok to start with high reps and lower weights.
Your body will get used to it that way.
However, at some point you should get serious and start hitting the heavy weights.
5x5.
>> Kanader
>>128969
In martial arts, in particular, cardiovascular fitness is really the most important; it takes your breath out fairly quickly. Second is muscular endurance, which you can build by lower weights and higher reps (75% of your strength training weight, 25 reps, sets until exhaustion.) Third most important is power; you can train for this by doing 33% of your strength training weight, but the exercises are done quickly - 1 second/rep instead of 4 seconds/rep.
>> Anonymous
>>128966

Why would you quote yourself and say that you fail?

Fucking fat people.

Also you're wrong, Sage goes in every field.
>>128924
>> OP
>>128973

Best and simplest advice I've heard all week. Will I also gain muscle mass this way? it seems more endurance oriented at only 33% weight. I usually don't workout with a partner, can I just find my theoretical max and use that in order to find the percentage of weight I should be lifting?

and one last question: if I do crunches and pushups every day will it help or hinder performance/strength gain? I'm currently up to 50 pushups and 100 crunches
>> OP
>75% of your strength training weight, 25 reps, sets until exhaustion.

I was confused about this part, does that mean 75% of max? example if my max is 80lbs on bar curl then I should do 60 lbs 25 times??? :O or do you mean that I should do what I normally train on, such as today (50 lb bar curl 15 times) and do 75% of that weight?
>> Anonymous
>>128980

How about you just follow a Starting Strength, a well put together routine for beginners, and stop confusing yourself.

There is no reason for someone new to be worrying about Olympic-Power training or large amounts of hypertrophy, just get a base.
>> Anonymous
>>128978
Ignore Kanader, he's going off of locker room knowledge. There is absolutely no point in going over 12 reps per set unless you're working on endurance, which from what I gather, you're not. 8-12 reps per set to focus on size, 4-6 reps per set to focus on strength. Focusing on size will still build strength and vice-versa, so take your pick or alternate, whatever works for you.

>>128974
Give up already, you've been bested by an amerifag, and your country of origin isn't going to change the fact that you're an idiot.
>> OP
>>128982
Alright how about this I will work on low rep high weight strength next week since I have already started this week with high rep low weight. How many sets do I do? until exhaustion? and what percentage of my maximum? I don't want to gain crazy size because size is useless when fighting your opponent. continuing to read starting strength...
>> Anonymous
>>128983

There is a routine at the end of Starting Strength.

You won't gain "crazy size" unless you actually attempt to.

It's not like you can pick up a guitar and just start playing like Jimi Hendrix.
>> OP
>There is no reason for someone new to be worrying about Olympic-Power training or large amounts of hypertrophy, just get a base.

I am working on getting a base but the problem is I don't know what sort of base I need for martial arts. So far I have heard high reps low weight and endurance, and low reps high weight strength. Does anyone know which is more important for a martial art, or is there a way I can balance the two??
>> Anonymous
>>128983
>How many sets do I do?
5x5 is typical, I don't know what the ideal is. I generally do it until near failure.
>what percentage of my maximum
trial and error. If you're struggling on the target rep, and you probably won't be able to manage another rep, bingo.

When I did martial arts, I'd focus on the strength range, then if my progress started to diminish I'd switch over to size training, then switch back. Helps stop plateaus.
>> Kanader
>>128982
Don't move your trolling over to me; my e-penis is IRL well qualified to speak on this subject. Anyways, the only time I mentioned doing more than 12 reps was in reference to endurance training.

>>128978
>>128980
Push-ups, sit-ups, and exercises like them won't hinder you, and provide a good practical base.

Let's clear up the numbers, then. You should, with the help of a spotter, determine what the maximum weight you can lift, with proper form, a single time. This will be different for each exercise, but we'll refer to this number at 1RM. (1 repetition maximum)

The amount of weight you should use for strength training will be 75% of 1RM. Sets of 8-12 reps.

The amount of weight you should use for endurance training will be 75% of your strength training weight, or 50% of 1RM. (Technically, 56.25%, but whatever.) Sets of 25 reps.

The amount of weight you should use for power training will be one-third of what you use for strength training, or 25% or 1RM. Sets of 8-12 reps, but faster.
>> Anonymous
>>128989
I targeted you because you use a name, and your posts are pock-marked with half-truths and obvious guesses.

I mean come on, 33% 1rm for power? Hypertrophy range for strength? Where do you learn your shit, from 35 year old diagrams on the high school weight room wall?
>> Kanader
>>129004
>Hypertrophy range for strength?
Where's that?

And yes, 33% for power; your problem with that is what exactly?
>> Kanader
>>129006
wat? I clicked:
>>129005
>> Kanader
>>129005
"Studies show that power is best developed when the force is between 30 and 60 percent of maximum. But the optimum is probably when the load and the speed are about one-third of maximum."

Referring to: Stamford B. "The Differences Between Strength and Power" Physician and Sportsmedicine 13(1985):133
>> Anonymous
>>129008
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strength_training#Realization_of_training_goals
Refer to the diagram. Strength/Power are around 80-100% 1rm (or 1-5 reps per set), hypertrophy is 8-15 (my problem with "strength training will be 75% of 1RM. Sets of 8-12 reps." ). Source of diagram (Siff MC - 2003). This is also extremely well known within bodybuilding circles.
>> OP
     File :-(, x)
This is my head now.
>> Anonymous
>>129027
Welcome to science. Everything is wrong and right simultaniously.
>> Kanader
>>129017
Mel Siff took a contrary stance on a lot of things, but he was well respected nonetheless. I'll continue to profess the larger body of research, but that doesn't mean you're wrong either.
>> Anonymous
>>129034
Regardless, the reps ranges I've seen from multiple sources have been pretty consistent, anywhere from 1-8 (generally closer to 4-6) reps per set for power, 10-15 (more often 10-12) for size. I've tried both, and a consistent regimen of 10-12 yeilded a lot of "fluff muscle", and 4-6 yielded "dense" muscle that was much stronger pound for pound.

Your citation is actually the only thing I've seen contrary to that to date.

>>129007
deleted and re-posted due to bad formatting .
>> Kanader
>>129042
There seems to be two large bodies of work; one seems geared towards building muscle (not necessarily bodybuilding) for aesthetics and sports, and the other seems geared towards performance and general health. I think we're on different sides of that line.
>> Anonymous
i think the op hanged himself long ago