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Cleaner
I'm a weightlifter (as in a person who moves the barbell overhead (clean and jerk; snatch) in the sport of weightlifting). I can't say I'm that great but I know what I'm doing in terms of technique and training program. I'm willing to take any questions on basic lifting related to athletic performance (power cleans, power snatches, the full squat, etc). I know a bit about powerlifting and asthetics also - even if I look down upon the bench press, half squat and "cutting / drugs." And yes both have certain benefits to athletes - even faggotry know as bodybuilding.
>> svenska
what kind of shoes are you lifting in? i need new squat shoes, chucks are overrated.
>> Cleaner
>>22386I use Chuck Taylors and off brand Wallmart Chuck Taylors (like 12 bucks) when I back squat. This is a full back squat where the hams and cavs are compressed (pause) and upright as possible. Most weightlifters will use weightlifting shoes for the back squat and front squat. I only use weightlifting shoes when I front squat (and my competition lifts).
I use off brand DoWins (Chinese lifters use them). These were like 50 bucks I think. Some people use Addidas Ironworks / or the new Nike weightlifting shoes. But the DoWins IMO are the best for me since I have wide feet.
>> Cleaner
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>>22386
www.vsathletics.com/ product.php?xProd=1301&xSec=1
My shoes. The heel is a bit high but it's a very sturdy shoe. I personally don't think people need weightlifting shoes for the back squat. It does help very much when I clean / Front Squat because it keeps me very upright.
>> Cleaner
dynamic-eleiko sells the Addidas Ironworks / Addistar - but it's quite expensive. Chinese are great lifters and DoWins work for them. Although perhaps Addidas is a better shoe given more Olympians use it (i think not sure)
>> Cleaner
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Zhang is 69K I think - this guy IMO has one of the best bodies in weightlifting. He's built like a rectangle. It's really awesome when you think about it.
>> svenska
haha it's good to see not everyone is using ironworks
>> Cleaner
>>22412
I would probably use the best money can buy (e.g. what A class lifters use the most) but I'm a poor grad student. If I had cash I'd get an Eleiko bar, garage platform set up, squat racks, and olympic rings. That's all you need for any strength training program.
>> Anonymous
>>22378
>>I know a bit about powerlifting and asthetics also - even if I look down upon .... "cutting / drugs"

pity the rest of your pill-popping sport doesn't.
>> Cleaner
>>22425
Well I am an American. And Americans bitch that the rest of the world dopes while we don't (as much). Hence the rankings were China, Russia, Greece, Bulgaria are on top ...
>> Cleaner
>>22425
Also the drugs in weightlifting IMO are quite different from drugs in bodybuilding and powerlifting. Most weightlifters can't afford extra mass (except SHWs). It's a weight class sport with very little supportive gear. I know hGh is used pretty widely - and some new drugs are in development to help people from muscle atrophy - I believe it's more aggression and recovery based. I mean Taner Sagir without drugs sort of sucks ass.
>> Cleaner
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Rumor is Sagir was doping. I'm not sure about it, but the guy was crazy aggressive during the Athens games.
>> Anonymous
>>22429
steroids don't really work like that. you'll only get big if you train to get big; they accelerate results and reduce recovery time. most early steroid developement originated in east germany specifically from their track and field team and then into everything else.

and
>>22428
american weightlifting doesn't have the funding and infrastructure, or even the sports specific research base that those countries do. it's not just about doping.
>> Cleaner
>>22442
You forget America was on top during the 50s, 60s. Tommy Kono, Norbert Schmanski, Joe Dube, etc. America sucks cause of a ton of reasons - in America you can be rich via FOOTBALL. Most gyms in America don't allow weightlifting (anything overhead or dropped = ban). There isn't many coaches who are well trained. USAW sucks ass. Our good lifters get very little external support /f unding. weightlifting is expensive (not as much as gymnastics) but Eleiko bar set = 2.5K at least.
>> Cleaner
>>22446
Funny since American track and gymnastics are pretty damn good. Too bad USAW has no clue about how to copy good shit that works from models within USA and outside USA (china's system. korea's system. etc)
>> Anonymous
>>22446
>>You forget America was on top during the 50s, 60s. Tommy Kono, Norbert Schmanski, Joe Dube, etc. America sucks cause of a ton of reasons - in America you can be rich via FOOTBALL. Most gyms in America don't allow weightlifting (anything overhead or dropped = ban). There isn't many coaches who are well trained

see
>>22442
>>american weightlifting doesn't have the funding and infrastructure, or even the sports specific research base that those countries do. it's not just about doping.

reading is fucking awesome.
>> Cleaner
My point was even without the funding and infrastructure, or even the sports specific research base - USAW was pretty damn good back before the 70s. Guys like Nobert or Tommy didn't get shit (money / fame wise), and had to make the best of crappy conditions (some lifted in the snow, outside, etc). Tommy was SELF coached.

Now it's more of the RELATIVE opportunities. e.g. In China being a weightlifter is better than being really fucking poor. But in America the commercialization of pro sports like football, baseball, basketball, etc makes weightlifting not so attractive.

I really do believe you can become great just lifting in a garage set up with dedication to technique and some natural talent. This happened in the 60s - so it's sad it doesn't happen these days. It's more cultural (sports like football) and the rise of image culture (bodybuilding) and shit like powerlifting that fucks it up.
>> Anonymous
>>22464
it happened in the sixties because the modern sport was still in it's infancy and people trained much the same all over the world. the sixties/seventies was the period that the east germans/russians/bulgarians started turning the sport into a science.

you're a weightlifter who apparently has a dream, in america. have you looked at what louie simmons at westside barbell is trying to do with one of his boys? simmons has bitched a lot about weightlifting in america and now he's trying to do something about it (most of his theoretical base for powerlifting comes from the russians) if you're not aware of it it might be interesting to watch and might help you improve your performance. so might learning what a carbohydrate is.
>> Cleaner
>>22468
i know what westside does. some ideas are great, but definately not for weightlifting. weightlifters train the lifts for technique at the highest levels - not strength. there is no point of squatting 800+lbs when you can only clean 230k. powerlifters have no place in weightlifting. if you can't full squat, you can't full snatch.
>> Anonymous
>>22476
louie has started applying them to weightlifting, hence the reason i brought it up. last time i heard the guy who got to be guinea pig for the experiment hasn't competed yet so the jury is still out.

they're usually pretty open over there, you could always just ask them. you said yourself you weren't great and given the poor state of american lifting, what have you got to loose?
>> Cleaner
>>22484
Westside is about a ton of failed experiments. Powerlifting (which I don't think is a real sport given the super suits and lack of athletic movements - mainly just leverage movements) is very contrary to weightlifting. Weightlifting is about technique over raw power. Flexibility over limit strength. Can westside help the strength of a weightlifter? Yes. Chains and bands in the FS / BS is on example. Can Westside create an Olympic champ? no. They just don't train as a weightlifter that focuses upon technique and flexibility.

Rezza can FS like what? mid 300K for doubles. Strength is not an issue for weightlifters and Westside is about strength. Unless simmons decides to experiment with technique (I've seen his lifters - they all suck ass at technique), he won't get far.
>> Cleaner
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typical weightlifter's flexibility.
>> Cleaner
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typical powerlifter's flexibility
>> Cleaner
>>22484
Powerlifting might have had a chance back in the day of the Clean and Press. Anderson was more of a powerlifter (style IMO) because he could quarter squat ridiculous amounts and press (with shitty technique) more than anyone at the time.

Now how do weightlifters look? I'd say more like chigishev (they look a bit ... thin almost even at 280lbs /6.1).
>> Cleaner
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P{aul anderson (the build of a SHW powerlifter IMO - the guy fucking benched and half squatted).
>> Cleaner
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chigishev. a super heavy weight weightlifter with a pretty good snatch (not as good CJ)
>> Anonymous
>>22491
you're consistantly proving yourself to be ignorant and fucking, fucking, stupid. you don't even know what the fuck westside is doing. the reason they dominate powerlifting is precisely because of those failed experiments you stupid cunt. their guinea pig is guess what homo, doing olympic lifts! westsides entire complex conjugate periodisation system was ripped off, guess what, olympic lifters! it was FUCKING APPLIED to powerlifting, which is why it took that particular form. now they're going back to THE SPORT THAT GENERATED THE SCIENCE THEIR SYSTEM IS BASED ON IN THE FIRST PLACE, COCK TOOL.

you are confusing technique WITH FUCKING TRAINING THEORY. a training theory THAT CAME FROM OLYMPIC WEIGHTLIFTING TO BEGIN WITH.

you are a failure. go into your garage and beat yourself to death with a fucking bumper plate, you monkey.
>> Anonymous
>>22496
what. the fuck. does flexibility. of a powerlifter vs an olympic lifter. have to do with an olympic lifter at westside?

that is the biggest fucking straw man i have ever. ever seen.
>> Cleaner
>>22514
Let me try to explain something that might be difficult for you to understand. It's called optimization.

A weightlifter is trying to maximize some function (competition total) subject to certain constraints (time, recovery, weight class, etc). Let's say that weightlifter can DL 900lbs and FS 700lbs but can only clean 250Kilos.

There is no point for that lifter to spend much time and resources on anything BUT the technical aspects of the lift (e.g. do the CJ, do the snatch, improve the lift itself). Many Russians stoppped squatting at a certain point because of diminishing returns. Adding 50lbs to the FS and DL won't do anything to the competition total, but also take up resources. While training the full lift (or technical aspects such as from the hang, blocks, etc) actually may produce some gain.

Westside tries to train the lifts with their shitty PLs like Marsh using bands and chains in the classic lifts. Except Westside PLers who try to WL have shitty technique and flexibility. They can't get anywhere because they have no foundation. You need to full Front Squat and OHSQ. These fuckers cna't even do that. Bands and Chains and whatever strength shit they do can't help straight out technique which is needed to win at the top levels. This is why Alexseev beat so many people - the guy had straight out the best technique (but very poor strength compared to some)
>> Cleaner
>>22528
are you that fucking dumbass who posted shit on youtube about Travis Mash. Cause you got totally owned by weightlifters who know their shit.
>> Anonymous
>>22534
oh shit i give up. i don't think you even understand the russian system that you're quoting. whatever. go back to not getting any carbs from those fruits and vegetables.
>> Anonymous
Quick ways to increase hipflexor (and other associated muslces) flexibility for the full squat, GO.
>> Anonymous
>>22530
meh, fuck. i must be getting soft, but this isn't /b/.

look, cleaner, forget that stuff about training in your garage; everyone has to have dreams and i used to be like that as well. it must suck to not get any support in your chosen sport (i also know what that is like).

fyi, glen pendlay works a lot of westside ideas into his training and says he's been influenced by them 'from day one'. he also gets results using them, so maybe you want to start looking around and expanding your training repetoire.
>> Cleaner
>>22563
Glen Pendlay believes in optimization>>22534
http://glennpendlay.wordpress.com/
And yes most strength athletes (including myself) have used westside concepts such as training weaknesses and chains / bands. Too bad Westside is useless for olympic lifting at the elite level.
Glen doesn't believe in reserve strength but technique (which is exactly the point of optimization).
>> Cleaner
>>22540
You start full squatting at low weights. You pause in the hole for 10-20-30 seconds. Leg swings and various dynamic stretches do work preworkout. Postworkout you can do various static stretches for the groin area. For ankle flexibility you want to push your knees past your ankles via using a bar in full squat.
>> Cleaner
>>22540
You can probably find something OK on youtube (squat RX sucks for weightlifting, but might be ok for an athletic squat). I've never had trouble doing a full squat. I don't have much experience training athletes who can't full squat on their first or second try.
>> Anonymous
>>22615
what do you suggest for people with bad knees?
>> Anonymous
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>>22540

Can you do the 3rd world squat?
>> Norw
if OP is still around, could you give some sort of play by play on the transfer from the pull to the push position in the clean and jerk? It scares the living shit out of me