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Anonymous
hey /fit/, quick question for the weight lifters. will changing my workout from a 3x10 (3 sets, 10 reps) to a 5x5 help with muscle gain? ive been doing 3x10 for about 5 months now.
>> Anonymous
do 10x3 and do better tahn either of the 2 options u listed
>> Anonymous
>>369074
lol
>> CWheezy !!bJFrM5LONOF
eating more helps your muscle gain
>> Anonymous
>>369074
>> Anonymous
why lol?

if one has the time, 10x3 would be optimal of the choices listed. Note how higher end athletes break up their training to multiple points in the day to utilize such a training protocol.
>> CWheezy !!bJFrM5LONOF
>>369109
If you're using bands, for like a speed day, then yeah, 10x3, sure that's awesome.

10x3 when not on a speed day is not that great.
>> Anonymous
higher weight is always better because you want your body not to get used to your work out, 3 or 4 sets of 5-6 is perfect when you can get the weights up and know u cant do anymore than 5-6. then your gains happen as your body gets used to the 5-6 and u can do 10 easy switch example* from 40lbs dumbells to 45's etc
>> Anonymous
>>369121
well, why?

tell me. show me why 10x3 is foolish in any other application other than DE?
>> Anonymous
hint

the answer lies in neurophysiology

even that faggy waterbury knows it.

look no further than Poliquin for the 'answers to all'
>> CWheezy !!bJFrM5LONOF
>>369161
Well, are you trying to get stronger? You can't do 10 sets of max effort, so you would either have to drop weight, or start with a lower initial weight. Drop sets suck, they aren't working your max effort, they just slow you down, and are used mainly for hypertrophy.

If you're trying to get bigger, 10x3 doesn't work as well. Bodybuilding is all about having constant strain on sub maximal weights, hence the doing high reps. So this essentially would be easy, and you would not getting a lot of hypertrophy out of it.

I really don't see the benefit, please tell me why I'm wrong
>> Anonymous
>>369161
wats DE?

Also I too have heard 10x3 is awesome. But it takes liek half an hour per exercise.
This one guy at the gym was doing just squatz for half an hour, ten sets progressively adding weight each set.
>> Anonymous
chweezy, you are a fellow tripfag, and you poast good things so im going to be nice.

i said who to read up on.

and i imagine you are familiar w/westside, as you commented on DE, realize that ME will often take 10+ sets, (altho reps 3-1)

look up Oly Lifting, track and field throwers, sprinters.

AM: 10x3 snatch
10x3 chins

PM: 10x3 back squat
10x3 SN high pull

caveat. if you are a beginner/sack of shit. this DOES NOT APPLY to you.
>> Anonymous
>>369179
yep, thats why it works best broken down into 2x a day training sessions '2 a days' if you can spare the time+recovery modalities...the high frequency and high volume and high intensity= a shit load of motor learning and results

also, you'll have no room for faggy curls, which is a plus too
>> CWheezy !!bJFrM5LONOF
>>369187
Well, I really don't like 10 sets more max effort, I know I'm fucked up after 3-4 sets at my max, I usually warm up fairly quickly. If I count warmup, I might be around 7, but i usually only count working sets.

Also, oly lifting is very different. Yeah it's cool, but olympic lifters basically olympic lift all day for what they want to do. It would be cool, but I'm not going to do it.
>> Anonymous
>>369196

Neuromuscular Basis for Maximal Weights Training (Poliquin, 1988)
- Increased neural drive to muscle
- Increased synchronization of motor units
- Increased activation of contractile apparatus
- Decreased inhibition of protective mechanisms of muscle

also refer to Prilepin chart of volume vs. intensity

Oly is very different? from waht? BBing? yes

westside?? no, not AT ALL. westside is 100% based on Louie's experience with Eastern Bloc training methods, but added compensatory acceleration (bands, chains) to better suit the strength curves and relative acceleration of the bench, dead, squat vs the more strength-speed jerk, clean, and snatch.
>> CWheezy !!bJFrM5LONOF
>>369209
It's different from powerlifting.
Yeah, bands and chains are awesome, and he took concepts from them, but it's still very different.

Also, I still don't like 10 sets of 3, except for DE days, I couldn't do 10 sets at a max weight, I'd have to work at a lower amount
>> Anonymous
How about we answer the OP's question. 5x5 is going to help more with strength, but it's a good compromise between that and size gains. So, switching to this will allow OP to put on some strength, which will help later on increase the loads being lifted if OP decides to go back to a bodybuilding split.
>> Anonymous
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>>369225
you are incorrect and i'm just going to leave it at that.

while employed @ a sports perf facility, it was mandatory for the CSCSs to give seminars on different topics weekly.

i gave a 45min presentation STRICTLY ON the similarities and differences of Westside (simmons and brown) to East Bloc training modalities (verkoshansky, zatsiorsky, roman, siff, mendeleyev) and the relative applications for athletes. to put it bluntly, there was much more in common than not. and the 'nots' were not in theory, but just sports specific application (same in idea, just specific in practice)

do your hw before you speak false opinions as fact
>> Anonymous
/thread
>> Anonymous
blowhard 'expert' name dropping ITT
>> Anonymous
>>369513

i do it here too
>>369411
>> CWheezy !!bJFrM5LONOF
>>369241
So, you're telling me I could do 10 sets at max weight? awesome, tellin me what I can do now, sweet
>> Anonymous
>>369530

LOL i realize that 'just making shit up' might fly in your world, but really, you dont need to when you share mine.

i never said shit about what you can/cannot do.

you wrote that
>oly lifting is very different
from westside, i responded.

do what you do. just dont make up bullshit lies and peddle them as truths NOR create unneccesary internet wars
>> Anonymous
6-12 reps with 60-80% of max. gives you muscle mass.1-3 with 90-100% of max is optimal for power...
>> Anonymous
>>369642
definitionally wrong

optimal power production is between 50-70% of one's 1RM, depending upon a variety of factors, but usually about 60% of RM is optimal for peak power. and yes, this has been studied ad nauseam
>> Anonymous
>>369685
Got any sources for that brah?
>> Anonymous
Q: with 5x5 you add more weight every set right?
>> Anonymous
SHUT THE FUCK UP EVERYONE. TRYING TO THROW OUT PERCENTAGES AND SAYING IT PRODUCES MUSCLE MASS. SHUT THE FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUCK UP WITH THAT BULLSHIT. YOU DONT KNOW SHIT, YOU ARE NO SCIENTIST SO HOW THE FUCK WOULD YOU KNOW.

JUST DO 5X5 FOR STRENGTH + MUSCLE GAIN. MODERATELY ADDING WEIGHT.

thats just common sense that it works
>> Anonymous
I personally do 1x10, then 1x11, then 1x12.
Don't know if it's helpful or not but i seem to be getting some results so I'll keep on with it until I feel like doing something else for whatever reason.
>> Anonymous
List your max bench, squat and deadlift OP.
>> Concerning %RM for Optimal Power Prodn Anonymous
>>369816
wow, i even impress myself sometimes. the %'s i gave were off the top of my head, here are the studies that back the same spread.

<<Therefore, from research that has investigated peak power output across a broad spectrum of loads (Bemben et al., 1991; Kaneko et al., 1983; Mayhew et al., 1992; Moss et al., 1997; Newton et al., 1996) it has been generally recommended that loads of 30-45% of 1RM would provide the optimal load for maximizing power output during resistance exercises, and would provide the foundation for load prescription in explosive power training.

However, a number of strength and conditioning coaches have recently argued that loads of 45% of 1RM fall short of producing peak power output in athletes with extensive backgrounds in strength and power training (Baker et al., 2001a, 2001b; Cronin et al., 2003; Tidow, 1995). Poprawski (1988), a strength practitioner, has stated that stronger athletes use loads that represent a higher percentage of 1RM (70%) and conversely less strong athletes use loads that represent a lower percentage of 1RM (50%). Recently, more studies have been published on the loads along the RM spectrum that creates optimal power production in upper and lower limb explosive movements in athletes of different strength levels and training historty. >>
>> Anonymous
>>370660
>> Anonymous
>>370954
>> why does OP look so GAY
why does OP look so GAY
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>> Anonymous
10x3 is good for gaining mass BUT you have to lower the weight to do this. because of this, you will not get much stronger in comparison to a 5x5 workout

i would go 5x5 as you'll still grow, just slower, meanwhile your a lot strong which will then compound on top of that and make it EASIER to gain later if you go back to a 10x3 becuase you'll be doing quite a bit more weight

general rule: the longer the muslces are under stress the more they will grow. The more weight you use the strong they will get.

idealy a 5x5 very slowly would be great but again, you'd have to lower teh weight and thus defeat the purpuse
>> Anonymous
>>371957

so by your theory, push ups would be best for gaining mass in your chest shoulders and tris....
>> Anonymous
>>371957
have you confused 3x10 w/10x3?

10x3 = (in america) sets x reps

also, has any1 on /fit/ ever, just for second, thought 'maybe the opposing poster might just be a little bit right?' before putting on the contrarian lets internet war and troll