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Anonymous
/fit/, I'm somewhat confused and in need of some words from someone who's actually fit and not a faggot who answers questions without knowing shit about shit. Then again, this is 4chan so I'm bound to find that.

Months ago, I departed on a voyage from misguided anorexic skinnyfat to fit. My goal was/is to lose bodyfat. From boosting my caloric intake, I lost a good bit of fat and gained a good amount of muscle that I'm reasonably proud of. The first thing I noticed from upping the calories to 2200 a day was that my midsection/belly filled up more, but I got past that and continued on, and saw great results. But as I gained muscle and ate the same 2200 a day, my belly became less full and more flabby. I wrote this off as OMG WTF IS GOING ON, and it puzzled me.

Now, I've never regularly eaten as much as I theoretically should. Given my activity level and size, I need 2600-2800 calories a day. I did 2200 for that whole because it's a healthy and slight deficit, but I'm thinking the additional muscle mass I gained could have upped this number and now the deficit is too great? Does that sound right? Yesterday I took in 2700 calories in healthy foods for the first time, gradually through the day, and now my obliques are sore for just about the first time ever (I hit the weights hard yesterday, HIIT afterward) and I'm feeling just as "full" and I've ballooned just as much as I felt immediately after I started my voyage. Perhaps I'm finally at a proper deficit? Thing is, I don't know if I'm going to lose fat eating like this, so today I went down to 1600 calories (zigzag method yo).
>> Anonymous
So please guide me, /fit/. Will eating 2400 calories a day while engaging in "hard" exercise 6-7 days a week at 5'10" 165 lb... promote bodyfat loss, or will it just inefficiently promote muscle gain along with more bodyfat gain? I'm at a point where I don't know what I'm doing anymore. I deadlift 300 lb daily for the lulz when I'm bored, taking in half my calories from protein, 30% from fat, and 20% from carbs, all between 5 meals a day, tapering carbs, all healthy non-processed sources etc.

Pic related, please help me make the next picture in my series optimal.
>> Anonymous
changes take awhile, especially visible ones, you seem to be making good progress. If I were you though i would set up 3 month cycles where you are eating more calories, perhaps 3,000 a day, with most of your meals being fruits/veggies and protein(whether that is a shake/tuna/chicken/turkey blahblah) and carbs scheduled around your workouts for energy. Then don't worry about your gut for awhile and try to just pack on as much lean mass as you can(very little cardio). 3 months down the road, you switch to 2k calories and change your heavy resistance training to a more endurance based supersetting routine. Add in some cardio and bam you're cut.
>> Anonymous
>>322434
Thanks man.

I appreciate your advice and all, but thing is... I'm not too big on size, or at least I don't want to be until I get cut where I am first. It's frustrating as hell to see dudes are are boatloads weaker than me but look great due to low bodyfat % alone. That's kind of where I want to get before I pack on the major muscle. I actually only picked up lifting because it would burn more calories than I could expend via cardio alone. I've learned to love it, but my primary goal for right now is to just get cut asap.

So to that end, how should I proceed? Stay around 2000 and focus on cardio? Would eating more speed up the fatloss perchance (it did when I left starvation mode...)? Or can I still lift along with all that as I've been doing this entire while? Ugh, I hate not knowing how many calories my body ACTUALLY needs. =\
>> Anonymous
>>322484
I understand your predicament, however I would still bite the bullet and add some mass. by restricting your calories(calorie deficit) and still engaging in cardio and resistance training you will inevitably eat some of your muscle, so its good to prepare for that. Also having more muscle raises your basal metabolic rate (the calories you burn while doing jack shit) therefore making your cutting phase even easier.

IF you are insistent on cutting now, just follow the second half of what i said now, but I feel you would be better off/be happier with the result if you take the time to bulk a little.
>> Anonymous
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>>322488
also i don't know what you're looking for, but this is me a year or so back, from my experience the bulking/cutting method has given me far better results then your trytodoboth method that I also did for a couple years back in the day.
>> Anonymous
>>322488
How would I take advantage of a huge BMR toward fat loss? I already have more muscle under this fat than the camera angle might indicate (and I'm nearly a month after the last picture [I take them mid-month]), more than I really think is necessary for my immediate goals. But if I create huge caloric deficits, won't I just fall back into starvation mode? I was stuck there for over a year before and I really don't want to keep retaining fat and getting no where, even if I'm doing loads of cardio every day...
>> Anonymous
>>322507
the key is not restricting your calories TOO much, the idea being that adding in cardio and a more endurance/cardio resistance routine will create the deficit without you needing to make too many changes to what you eat.
>> Anonymous
>>322508
well shit. how many calories did that mean for you during your cutting phase? once again, im at a loss for my own healthy deficit since 2200 isn't getting me too far anymore...
>> Anonymous
>>322514
we are different people, I would need to know alot more about you to try to tell you how many calories to eat. Just because 3500 calories = 1lb doesn't mean that a 500 calorie deficit/day works the same for everyone, in fact it really really doesn't. You have to feel it out for yourself, or consult a professional.
>> Anonymous
>>322538
O, but I also think you're just being a tad impatient. This kind of thing really takes time.
>> Anonymous
>>322541
I guess you're right. Sometimes I start to think I haven't lost much fat at all but rather building my abs has reshaped how my fat looks... I just can't wait to get rid of the back fat that spills over waistbands and touches my tshirts.

I'll quit bitching now. Thanks anon.
>> Anonymous
control over something amidst chaos is a very comforting thing. I was much chubbier then that last pic a few years back and decided one day I was done with it, now i'm gettin ready to get on ninja warrior :) wish me luck.
>> Anonymous
>>322571
>>a few years back

THAT IS NOT COMFORTING.
>> Anonymous
>>322576
my "chubbier" is what lots of people want to look like.
>> Anonymous
>>322583
Well still man. Years? Holy shit. I can imagine working up to a goal appearance over the span of a single year, but I don't want to make it last for yearsss before I get to a level I feel is adequately fatfree.
>> Anonymous
>>322409

1st pic is what passes for 'anorexic skinny' these days?
>> Anonymous
>>323143
I believe what the OP was talking about was more his eating methods than his actual size. When I read it, I understood it as being one of those people who tries to eat as few calories as possible to loose wait (hence always getting stuck in starvation mode).

Feel free to correct if I was wrong in your description. I also know what you're going though, I got almost the exact same initial gains simply by eating more, and more frequently.
>> Anonymous
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>>323231
Correct. First pic is the limitations of my body in starvation mode, the most fatfree it'll become when daily intake is 400-700 calories, with 4 miles of running daily to combat it too. For a whole year of that.

I'm kind of peeved right now because I started doing it the right way only to lose fat, but I've ended up getting bigger due to muscle gain... it only made the love handles (from the right angle) more visible and protruding.

Started out at 162 lb, am now 166 lb btw. None of that gain could have been fat, I'm hoping... given I was still eating under energy needs.

Pic related.
>> Anonymous
Hey anon, are you the dude i was mildly arguing with last week about IF/Warrior diet?

Not wanting to pick another argument, just curious.

Anywho, I kind of like the suggestion from anons about zigzagging you diet and training. It looks to me like you are plateauing based on your pics. You are also a very strict calorie counter, and your aversion to the years it takes to acheive a result like the pictured anon, suggests to me like you are getting frustrated from your slowed gains.

Anywho, put my vote in for zigzagging your diet and training. I see a lot of improvement from your three pics. Not sure why you are so butthurt over it. Good luck.
>> Anonymous
>>324044
Yeah, I guess I type consistently the same or something. Iono man, disregard whatever I said back then, I just have a phobia of stuff like IF because even when I wasn't eating shit to go along with my exercise, in my mind I was entirely convinced I was doing it right. Crazy stuff.

Thanks. Btw, zigzag is a dieting term... I think what you're looking for is bulking/cutting phases. My diet is already pretty zigzagged, I think. I'm not really much a calorie counter anymore now that I'm confident that I'm actually getting results--before, I'd go to the kitchen with a pen and paper knowing my limits on every macronutrient for that meal--now I more or less just intuitively choose the healthier options, go back to the computer and record based on what I ate, and adjust the focus of the next meal to better fit the mold.
>> Anonymous
This is a true story, the names and dates have been editted in order to protect the participants.

Most of /fit/ is extremely unrealistic about gains and progression. You'll see all these pictures of people getting into incredible shape in 6 months--however, what they don't tell you is that most of these people were in shape and let themselves go. It is much easier to regain what you had then increase it. In three months, you haven't plateaud or other bullshit. You have grown in size, and have a more visible defintiion to you. You look like you've been working out for six months. Your torso has a better shape, your back has gotten bigger and so have your arms. You still look skinny, but you're going to be skinny for a long time.

.Beyond that, there are other factors.

Your base weight is one. Skinny people are called "hard gainers." Not because they don't get good results, but because their muscle grow in size at a slower speed then larger frames, because they are smaller. This means that while you might be putting it just as much effort, doing just as hard a workout, your muscle will not get as big. It doesn't mean you aren't stronger, it just means that it will take more time.
>> Anonymous
>>324054
I'm kind of a mesomorph actually, and started out at 210 lb sedentary fatassness. 2 years ago I decimated 50 lb in 2 months of running / extreme defecitting, and continued my ways for the next 2 years always worrying about my weight, undereating like crazy, feeling ashamed as hell whenever I binged and overcompensated with crazy exercise. The only time my ways worked at all was when I trained for a marathon in a month, running 100 miles that month eating only 2-4 cans of a tuna a day.

I guess my point is that I'm not the skinny hard gainer. If I wanted, I could eat more and gain muscle like crazy, but I'm restraining myself for the fat loss.

Otherwise, what you've said is very sensible and I appreciate it.
>> Anonymous
OMG
This is relevant to my interests.
OP you sound exactly like me.
>> Anonymous
>>324074
But are you ahead of me or behind me in progress?
>> Anonymous
>>324050
Don't worry about it. I make a point of ignoring most posts on /fit/ anyway. haha. I still stand behind my IF, but it is working for me, and much of this shit is individual, as much as people would like to believe otherwise. As someone above said, 3500=1lb, but it goes further than that....

Zigzag. I do understand it as a dieting term, but I also apply it as a training term. For example, I routinely take an entire week off of training. Or, I will lift heavy for three weeks, then one week, lift high rep, etc.

Anyway, for myself, my challenge has always been plateaus. Historically, when I plateau, I get frustrated, lose interest, and decline. I have gone through this problem for more than 12 years since I started getting "out of shape" as compared with my health as a "youth". Since adopting a zigzag approach to both diet and exercise (in the past 11 months), I have so far, not had any significant plateau issues (most of them have occurred at the 3-4 month mark). Just thought I would throw that out there. Either way, glad to hear you are backing off a little in your calorie counting. Being that strict (I think) takes away from the internal dialog that is going on in all of us to "eat that extra bite", and whatnot. Don't block your instincts too severely.
>> Anonymous
>>324094
Hmm your shorter term bulking/cutting cycle idea sounds pretty good. I'll give it a go once I get back to school and have access to a gym instead of just my equipment at home. I'll eat like crazy and feel better about it if I know I've truly pushed my body to the maximum and it needs it.

Good show.
>> Anonymous
>>324078
behind, OP. I'm at around July in your picture, used to be at June. been doin' p90x and seeing some results.