File :-(, x, )
Anonymous
okay that will be $3000 for that stitch, I hope you have... oh no. No insurance. Well now lets see here, you have taken the optional extra's like the ambulance (+$100), hospital bed(+$100), medicine(+$150), my care due and attention (+$500), and tax. oh who cares anyway that will be an extra +$1200.
so your bill adds up too.
hmmm.. lets see $5500 in total.
how will you be paying card or cash?

why is our good american medical care so bad /fit/?
>> Anonymous
Cause you don't have a insurence
>> Anonymous
maybe if you want to pay mass taxes like england/canada and have socialized healthcare which you have to go through a bureaucrat to get to you can go vote for that nigger. Also, i've never been to a hospital before in my life except for when I was born, stop being irresponsible and getting shit cut open asshole.
>> Anonymous !SMXjOpSQro
or are in that terrible middle class niche that doesn't get help.

I got an outpatient procedure done monday for like 40 dollars.

Anesthesia and all bitch.
>> Anonymous
>ambulance (+$100)

Try (+$1000).
>> Anonymous
Protip!

Health care will never be free.
If you don't pay the doctor directly, you pay the tax man. And he takes a fuck ton more, and he does it regularly - instead of just when you actually need medical care.
>> Anonymous
In Kalifornia, healthcare is free to illegal immigrants, but not for citizens, unless you are under 18 or over 80.
>> Anonymous
>>339025

Let's see: we can take a government-sponsored health care system which is beholden to the populace, or we can take a privately-owned health care system which answers to its shareholders.

Private may be more efficient, but it sure as shit isn't more satisfying, because you get shit like cancer patients losing coverage and going bankrupt trying to stay alive, people with preexisting conditions like, say, ADD or diabetes getting screwed out of benefits, and doctors hired on as consultants finding as many ways to deny coverage as possible.

I'm sure there are lots of nice, well-intentioned people in the health insurance business. The problem is, an insurance company does not make a profit by handing out extensive coverage to anyone who needs it.

Any decent first-world country should treat its sick and injured for free, or at the very least, very little. You don't pay premiums to a private fire brigade to make sure they save your house when it's on fire; you don't have to submit a break-in risk assessment before you can call the cops to protect your property; you don't have to submit your late fee history before you can check out books from the library. These systems all work. They're all socialized. Fuck, we even proved a partially socialized/partially private system can work with the post office! Why can't we apply that to our health?
>> Anonymous
HEALTHCARE QUIZ

1. You are diagnosed with a rare form of cancer that can only be treated with an "experimental" treatment only performed by a select number of specialists. Your health insurance provider can not cover the costs of the treatment because of it's experimental status. Do you:
a. Commit Suicide
b. pay $1000 for Back-Alley cancer treatment
c. Move to Canada
d. Pretend to be a small child with an adorably tragic disorder in hopes that daytime talk-shows will feature your story, tugging at the heart-and-purse-strings of middle-aged suburban housewives?
>> Anonymous
>>339023

And because hospitals and doctors routinely overcharge for everything.

My brother-in-law is a nurse. He tells me amazing shit. Getting an ACE bandage wrapped around your sprained ankle can cost a cool $300 for "medical supplies" or some bullshit, not to mention another $200 for the doctor's time.
>> Anonymous
>>339104

Canada. Weed's just about legal there, too. Win-win!
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
protip: divert a fraction of your oversized military expenditure to universal health care.
And your government structure is lame ass big. Downsize that.
also lol subprimes and your taxpayer money used in failbanks nationalisation
>> Anonymous
While socialized "free" health care for all sounds great there's just one little thing you need to answer for me:

Why the fuck should I contribute to other people's health care when most of them refuse to take care of themselves?
Why should I, as a responsible person, who eats reasonably and exercises regularly, chip in to help pay for some cheeseburger guzzling fatass's triple bi-pass?

If some dumb slut fucks 100 guys and ends up with AIDS and now needs expensive drugs to stay alive what obligation do I or any other person have to pay for them?

Or some fucktard who's been smoking for 30 years and suddenly needs a new lung.

Why the fuck should the cost of other people's shitty decisions be forced on everyone else?
>> Anonymous
>>339025you have to go through a bureaucrat

Or more like walk in, tell them where it hurts, ???, cured!!
University students have their own basic healthcare organization. I pay about 45EUR a year for it. A general practitioner's or nurse's appointment is free, specialists are 4EUR. I'm getting seeing a dermatologist next week as a follow-up on my acne treatment, getting some blood tests done and seeing a GP for my wrist and possibly getting a prescription for some sleeping pills.
>> Anonymous
because the US likes to think competition is good for everything.
>> Anonymous
when you see a doctor in europe, it sounds like they actually have time to listen to their patients rather than cutting costs by cutting you off when you try to talk
>> Anonymous
>>339049

If you "middle class" in America than you are rich by the worlds standard. Healthcare is expensive and more money doesn't necessarily mean better living conditions but generally it's not that hard to afford acceptable medical coverage. For the mentally ill and chronically uninsured, and definitely children I think they should all be given top of the line coverage no matter what. In principle I think that all people should have equal access to healthcare regardless or wealth. Maybe if all other factors are equal a person with a high contribution to society should be given a minor amount of preferential treatment but that's not the same as wealth.

>>339149

I agree with this as well and I'm a Canadian. There should be harsh conditions placed on people who deliberately place themselves in high risk situations such as fat people, smokers, and people who participate in very dangerous senseless activities. In reality most fat people and smokers wouldn't change just because they would be taxed heavily or denied healthcare so it's sort of inhumane.
>> Anonymous
>>339025
THIS. Ungrateful bitch, OP, I get raped by taxes for a shitty healthcare system I never use.
>> Anonymous
With privatized health care it's an almost immediate visit, but you're fucked unless you're wealthy or have insurance.

With socialized health care it's "free," but you have to pay more taxes and wait in line behind everyone else. This could be bad if you're behind 30 people with the flu and you've got a severe open fracture. Those fuckers hurt, and you don't want to wait an hour before it's your turn.

A balance would be nice; more socialization but with the option for a speedy visit if you're willing to pay some extra cash. That makes too much sense to work in the States, though.
>> Anonymous
>>339189
People with serious health issues go to the front of the line. It's not a firm "first come, first serve" process.
>> Anonymous
>>339189
oh lol delicious waiting in line myth is myth
(well is true in the nigger suburbs of big ass euro cities)
>> Anonymous
>>339189
flu =/= fracture. Not the same doctor door.
Fracture is no waiting line.
hurr durr maybe in america hospitals work that way
>> Anonymous
>>339200
>ive never been to europe, i havnt got a clue what the fuck im talking about
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
only in britain do supermarkets make sick people walk all the way to the back of the shop to get their prescriptions while healthy people can buy cigarettes at the front
>> Anonymous
I live in Australia. Free healthcare ftw
>> Anonymous
A few years ago I got food poisoning on a trip to France. One of things I remember was that the doctor came to my hotel room to see me and prescribe medication.
I just remember thinking, "AM I THIS FUCKING SPECIAL? OR IS THERE SOMETHING SERIOUSLY WRONG? WHAT AM I MISSING?"

I didn't understand that in other countries, apparently, doctors are actually concerned for the welfare of their patients.
>> Anonymous
Fuck you all. I'm not paying for you to get a check up. I'll pay for my family and I but you can bet your ass that I'm going to keep them off of donuts and unhealthy shit. Fuck socialized health care.
>> Anonymous
>>339296
cunts like this make things more complicated with their arrogance coming from ignorance
>> Anonymous
in my country, even gynecomastia surgery is free.
>> Anonymous
>>339302

Ignorance of what?
>> Anonymous
>>339307
0/1000
>> Anonymous
>>339149
>While socialized "free" health care for all sounds great there's just one little thing you need >to answer for me:
>
>Why the fuck should I contribute to other people's health care when most of them refuse to >take care of themselves?
>Why should I, as a responsible person, who eats reasonably and exercises regularly, chip >in to help pay for some cheeseburger guzzling fatass's triple bi-pass?
>
>If some dumb slut fucks 100 guys and ends up with AIDS and now needs expensive drugs >to stay alive what obligation do I or any other person have to pay for them?
>
>Or some fucktard who's been smoking for 30 years and suddenly needs a new lung.
>
>Why the fuck should the cost of other people's shitty decisions be forced on everyone >else?

Well the answer to this question if really fucking simple. But I am sure you are a member of them. Why should we pay for 10,000,000+ to live off of the hard work of doctors and the suffering of the sick and also at the same time think they need a new sports car every 2 years? I think it would be much cheaper just to fix the sick people. Than to have the doctors having to pay for insurance to the same companies that the people have to pay insurance to. What this means basically is they can set the price for healthcare. Let's remember this is not car insurance. This is people insurance. You can't ever total a person and just buy a new one.
>> Anonymous
>>339296

I again raise this issue: you're already paying for your entire town's police force, fire brigade, library, and postal system. If you shouldn't pay for the health care in your community, why should I pay for the police?
>> Anonymous
>>339332

Your post was incoherent tripe. Try again, only this time collect your thoughts before you type.
>> Anonymous
>>339332

The idea of social responsibility is nearly alien to American culture. We value the independents, the renegades, the go-getters, and the individuals. To a point that's a good thing, as it keeps us off our collective asses and allows for more cultural diversity. But it also results in truly callous statements: my buddy who makes six figures straight of out college snarls that he doesn't want to pay another couple hundred a month in taxes to help poor people get prescription drugs. Fuck those guys, he says, they'll never do anything for me.
>> Anonymous
>>339334
Roads.....clean air programs.....water....parks....schools

Fuck the insurance workers...they are the laziest most evil piece of shits in the whole world. You are ruining AMERICA.
>> Anonymous
>>339336
What are you a piece of shit health insurance agent? I wonder how many people really make their living off of the suffering and hard work of Doctors.

All Health Insurance agents, Lawyers, Drug companies make money off of medicine being the way it is and it is just plain wrong. It makes me sick. I am very sure it is much much more than 10,000,000 probably 50,000,000 make their living off of the suffering of the american people. 50,000,000.
>> Anonymous
>>339334
The police and the fire brigade are for the good of the town. The things that they are there to take care of are not well within the means of people to prevent when compared to one's health.

The library is there because everyone should have easy access to knowledge to better themselves.

The postal system is there for quick communication which the government uses to contact citizens. Communication is something that has been important since ever.

Your health is something that affects only you. You should be the one that takes care of it.
>> Anonymous
>>339349

I know people in insurance, and while they are good people, the stuff I've heard from various sources about insurance companies' practices is absolutely vile. They consider successful claims "losses," and hire doctors who use paperwork judo to deny people coverage.

I know private companies are more efficient profit machines, but when profit is the motivator rather than people, you can't expect everyone to get the best treatment.
>> Anonymous
and to make matters work this bastards live pretending that they are helping the world. That they are somehow in fact better than a regular person. Because they help people. What a load of shit. If you went out and got a real job then the whole world would be in a much better situation. I love being an insurance agent because I get to help people is the biggest load of shit I have ever heard in my life.
>> Anonymous
>>339334

The difference? Fire and police are nigh impossible to privatize; they're emergency services that have to respond immediately (i.e., prior to getting paid). They're the equivalent of emergency rooms, which are known to hemorrhage money; you can make 'em public if y'want.

Libraries are fucking cheap. And the government still spends shitload more than they need to on them.

The postal service is functional, yet completely worthless. Its private competitors do worlds better and probably cost worlds less to maintain.

The bottom line is that government fuckupery is the problem with the American health care system. The government decides, through Medicare, what the cost of health care will be and doctors are pretty much forced to charge that amount, no matter what their profit margins are. Make Medicare reactive to the private industry (not vice versa, as it is now), put money in people's hands and make them pay their insurance directly (not via work and DEFINITELY not through taxes) and you'd see prices fall and medical profit margins go up.
>> Anonymous
Let's not forget the 37% fraud rate in Medicare!

Gee I sure would feel good about having my health in the hands of some stupid fucks who get duped 37% of the time. I think it would save the country lots of money lol.
>> Anonymous
>>339352

Yeah, because getting bone cancer or, fuck, getting struck by a falling tree are totally preventable and up to the person in question to prevent. We shouldn't defray the cost of treatment for that shit at all.
>> Anonymous
>>339356

>postal service is worthless

Since when?
>> Anonymous
work for the government. I pay ten dollars for each visit, from a stomachache to getting a bullet removed.
>> Anonymous
>>339077

Most reasonable guy here. Like he says, there is no such thing as free healthcare. There is no such things as free police service, fire dept service, education, etc. There is no free lunch; First rule of economics.

And why the fuck are you people complaining about greedy people and people "without morals." It is everybody's right to be as greedy or selfless as they want.

>>339149

And like this guy said, why the fuck should I have to pay for someone else? That's fucking theft and threat of violence/death on the part of the govt. Fuck I hate govt.

protip: Anarchy, read into it.
>> Anonymous
>>339110

AND OUR MILK COMES IN BAGS, TOO
>> Anonymous
>>339023


Not OP, but I just wanted to say that we had insurance and had to go to the hospital twice for the same problem (even though I told them to admit the person on the first visit and they refused and sent us home). So they charged us for TWO visits, plus overnight stay, meds, etc. AFTER insurance, we ended up paying nearly $4k.

Total time the doctor saw the person? Ten minutes the first time we went and let's say ten minutes each time they checked on the person when he had to stay, so total, maybe an hour? Time spent waiting in the emergency room and arguing with the doctors: about 12 hours.

Bitches should have paid my ass for wasting my fucking time.
>> Anonymous
Niggers need to learn that if there is universal health care the government pays for everything(duh) but what happens is since health care is always bought by the same entity (the government) what happens is there is no competition and prices go way up, but if there was no government and business payed health care the prices would drop dramatically. I do agree that universal health care would be worlds cheap than the fucking Iraq war but it is not the right solution, only the obvious one.
>> Anonymous
In Massachusetts, if you make under $1,300 a month you can get completely free health and dental insurance.
I've gotten over $25,000 worth of dental work in the past year from the state completely for free. The only thing I paid for was $250 for a fancier version of a partial denture. However, the insurance still covers the $1,300 just for the denture design and installation.
I have a great doctor and access to a great local hospital. Prescriptions are the ONLY thing that needs a copay and it's ONE FUCKING DOLLAR for them.

The only thing that sucks is that if I get a better job, I lose it all. Why would I ever want to do that?
>> Anonymous
>>339025
Aw fucking tornado and that unexpected trip to the hospital that I had no control over thanks to the fact that it took away our transportation and everyone else was bleeding and needed treatment.

Thank god I was on a school function or I would have been completely fucked with that $550 hospital bill. I couldn't deny the x-rays.
>> Anonymous
Also, I want some free or cheaper dentistry. I can't afford to go to the fucking dentist how sad is that.
>> Anonymous
>>339742
Dental insurance from the average private company covers $1000 a year worth of work.
That's the same exact amount of coverage per year they've had for the past 4 decades. Because apparently, in 1960 dental treatment costs are exactly the same as today, right?
Know what $1000 in dental treatment gets you? An exam, a few x-rays, and a few fillings. That's about it.
Thankfully, I'm>>339739. For most of my life I got by with the $1000 a year limit because I had to. But once I left college I was eligible for the state insurance which has NO LIMIT as to cash amount of what they cover.
And now I needed $25K worth of work on my teeth because I've been unable to take care of my teeth properly on a mere $1K budget. However, if I was allowed a higher limit before, I'm sure 90% of the work I've needed done could have been prevented and I'd still have most of my teeth left in healthy condition.
>> Anonymous
>>339739
THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH HAND OUTS.
LAZY FUCK STICKS REFUSE TO GET REAL WORK BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY CAN LEECH ON THE SYSTEM.
>> Anonymous
>>339833

So why not offer such benefits to higher paid workers as well?
>> Anonymous
>>339189
Oh my god listen to this idiot, has he ever been to a hospital?
People with open fractures go to ACCIDENT AND EMERGENCY IN A HOSPITAL. THEY ARE GIVEN PRIORITY
People with a flu go to a doctor, if they are a pussy

Not defending the TAXATION or anything, just thought you'd like to know
>> Anonymous
>>339833
It's not like that. I'd HAPPILY make more money, but no job I could possibly get would get me anywhere near being able to afford the dental work on my own. I'm not making a spare $25,000 over-fucking-night. It'd take me decades to afford it, and by then I wouldn't fucking have teeth left.
And again, it seems all dental insurance from private companies ALWAYS have a $1000 a year dental work coverage limit. So it'd take 25 years to get all my work done on their plans.
Of course, if I got some super-awesome job where I make millions of dollars, THEN I can easily afford the insurance that actually covers things.
>> Anonymous
our medical care is good OP, just get insurance. Any simple full time job with a mediocre or better company gives you full health benefits. Find a better career
>> Anonymous
>>339502
MOM?
>> Anonymous
>>339149

generally people who fail to take care of themselves dont live as long, resuling in less strain than if they were to live out a normal length life.
>> Anonymous
Probably should have worked just a little harder in school.
>> Anonymous
>>339739

You are the cancer, Anon.
>> Anonymous
>>339976
It's not that simple these days. Most companies are scaling back benefits to the absolute minimum that they can give you. I even know people who were fired just so the company wouldn't have to pay their benefits anymore, so they were replaced with part-time employees.
>> Anonymous
>>339185
>BAWWWWWWW i wannna get cancer so my taxes aren't wasted.
fuck off, be happy that you don't require the health care, but I can guarantee that you will need it eventually and when that day comes you will be glad you have the infrastructure.
>> Anonymous
>>340035

it has metastasized from /b/?!
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
France (which pays the most for healthcare outside the USA) pays about $3,700 per capita and covers everyone. The WHO says France provides the best care with their single-payer plan (The US? ranked 37th in quality of care). The US pays about $6,100 per capita and that includes the 45 million who are not covered.

We pay MUCH more, we get MUCH less

nuff said
>> Anonymous
>>340621

Poor doctors probably aren't being paid enough.
>> the ides of march !!7Z/3gj5ZXsu
>>340628
I'd hate to cite a Michael Moore movie, but they live quite comfortably.
And they get a month of paid vacation every year.
>> Anonymous
>>340632

Poor, poor doctors, only living lavishly when they could be living opulently in the US of A.
>> Anonymous !SMXjOpSQro
>>339352
Preventing fires and crime is well within the means of a community on the lower level as health.

If people stopped committing crimes... Goodbye police.
There! One action changed and we can say goodbye to police.

More responsibility in regards fire safety... Goodbye Firemen.
There! People paying more attention to potential fire hazards and the world has changed.

Hey, I start working out and taking care of myself. Oh, darn I got any number of cancers. Glad I have universal health care because i could not prevent this.

Now, you might say, "What about fires caused by nature!" Cut the trees down. Especially in areas apt to dryness and replant them in areas that have great abundances of moistness.

Now, you might further say, "Hey! I don't want to have to rely on other people changing!" Well, that should go for the same in health care. It's all for the betterment of the community.
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
>> Anonymous
>>340035
So, you have $25,000 you can lend me so I can get this dental work done? I mean, it's either that or simply pulling every tooth out of my mouth. And dentures alone cost easily over $2,000, unless you want extremely shitty ones made from shit.
I mean, I could spend every dime I make on my dental health, or I could save it for a car, gas, classes, bills, etc.
It probably will work out in the end, I hope. Once I get the majority of my dental work done (I'm getting pretty close) I can afford to get a better job. But I can't do that now, I need that dental work. Want an idea of what I've gotten done?

-countless fillings
-6 root canals + 6 crowns + 2 posts
-2 teeth pulling
-One partial denture
-4 cleanings
-3 wisdom teeth removal + 1 biopsy of a bone growth in my jaw (turned out benign)
>> Anonymous
Ding Dong USA sucks nigger balls, news at eleven.
>> Anonymous
Dear amerifags, how much does your insurance cost you every month?

Lets just assume, full coverage, i mean the works, anything you can possibley get is covered, free care, free hospital, the works.

Whats that gunna cost you for one months insurance premiums?
>> Anonymous
>>341003
I paid $600 per semester once and it didn't cover ANYTHING. I don't even know what good insurance costs. It doesn't even seem to exist.
>> Anonymous
>>341003
Hello Anon, I remember you from the thread on /b/. As I was saying, I get full health coverage through my company for 41$ a month, pre tax income, and yeah that's about full as coverage gets - medical, dental, and vision. it's Cigna healthcare. There are certain exclusions on most plans.. nothing is completely 'free'. For instance I have a 250$ deductable, after I pay that much, the insurance kicks in and I only pay a co-pay. for Emergency room I would pay 10% of the cost(after the deductable is met) to a maximum out of pocket expense of 1500$. Most of the specialty stuff is the same, I pay 10% of the charge, up to 1500$. So if I had to go to the doctor and the visit is 150, i'd pay 15 bux. If I fucking lost a leg and had to go to the hospital and the bill was 300,000, i'd pay 1500 bux. Although there is a maximum total reimbursement of 2 million$. Again like i said in the other thread, a big part of job criteria is how good the health benefits are, particularly to people with families(and thus have little brats who are always getting sick)
>> Anonymous
>>341561
Oh I forgot to mention, once that 1500 out of pocket max is reached(in one calendar year), through a combination of any types of visits and such, the remainder of all care is free, except for perscription copays, which are 5/25/50 bux
>> Anonymous
>>341003
you some canada fag? like the ones who have to wait YEARS TO GET AN OPERATION?

like the ones who JUMP THE BORDER, come down to american and pay OUT OF POCKET to have the operations that the canadian government puts them on waiting lists for?

just cuz somethings free dosent mean its good or quality. a free car with no engine tires or seats is okay, but paying for a shitty ass beater that drives you to and from work is waaaaaay better.

fuck canada.
>> Anonymous
>>341883
>>341883
LOL

So, let me get this straight. You're trying to flame Canada because our operations are FREE, and, IF we still want to pay for them to get them sooner, we have that option as well.


Sounds a FUCK of a lot better than paying $5000 for a broken wrist you fucking moron. Have fun paying out the ass for your relatives' hospital visits.

It's funny that your analogy is so fucking bad. I can promise you that if you go to a hospital in a large city in the states, or a hospital in a large city in Canada (lol) you're experience will vary from hospital to hospital, not country to country.

But there is always the fact that my trips are completely free, and yours cost you hundreds, if not thousands of dollars per go.
>> Anonymous
>>341883


lol, this kid thinks that waiting years for an operation that would otherwise cost tens of thousands of dollars is a bad thing.

enjoy having $300,000 debt if you contract cancer, which one in four people do.
>> Anonymous
>>342035
>>342033

You're both fucking idiots.

The operations are not free. You pay a great deal more taxes for them. Over a lifetime, most people will pay a metric fuckton more than they get out of a social healthcare system.

Now, if people were smart, they'd put their money into an HSA. It's the same as paying taxes, except you can spend your money on other things, like vehicle repairs if your car breaks down, or a new water heater when your old one buys the farm.

But NO, giving that fucking money to the government and crossing your fingers that you'll get hurt bad enough to break even is MUCH better.
>> Anonymous
miraculous solution:

legalize consensual crimes. this means all drug use and prostitution. regulate these trades both federally and at the state level. tax the shit out of both. use taxes to pay for universal health care.

also, regulation would include stateside drug production initiatives and special pharmacies that dispense recreational drugs. this eliminates the need for dealers and associated crimes, stabilizes prices and keeps the product clean. prohibit public drug usage and up the penalties for irresponsible drug use, especially DUIs.