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Xenogears & Xenosaga discussion Da Mister
I couldn´t help it, since previous threads were a total success, and I´m listening the fantastic music from Xenogears, I was going to delay this thread a bit longer, but was unable to.

We can keep this thread attractive for the sake of /e/, and interesting for conversational purposes, anything you want to manifest about these magnificient series, or ask.

I´m calling everybody who made these threads epic, you played the main part, and you are crucial again.

By the way, in case you ask about this pic, it´s the cover for an incredible book, just like the first episode of Xenosaga.
>> Da Mister
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Does this face look familiar?, should be!, how Elly and Nephilim were related will remain a mistery for long.

Even in romantic scenes, Xenogears offers amazing moments, not foolish and annoying as many other games do, sad, though.
>> Da Mister
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Don´t worry about reposts ( KOS-MOS will soon continue ).
I remember from Xenogears, when Shevat was still on the ground, it was found attached to a gigantic basement, like a column, the "Babel Tower", quite a sight.

Since all games are so complex, we could have a conversation for years!, "I´m the beginning and the end, the first and the last" the main focus surrounding the Xenogears concept; god, men and existence, where I am from?, who I am?, why am I here for?, Alpha and Omega.

No other offering ever took these questions as the Xeno-series did.
>> Anonymous
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>>564539

Well, like it or not, they never are, were, or will be connected, unless another series reboot goes through.

Xenosaga is essentially an AU. The timeline perfect works lays out is not applicable to the events in Saga. So the two games are connected as alternate-universe only - in Saga, Elly did not, does not, and likely never will exist.

Elly and Nephilim looking simular is merely a stylistic "homage", like Jin getting tossed Citan's clothes in 3, or seeing Crescens as an enemy type in 2's last dungeon. Fun to point to, but ultimately insignifigant.
>> Anonymous
I've just restarted playing Xenogears on my PSP Slim. Truly, it had the most complex story out of all the RPGs I've ever played and the most controversial. Still, I guess the Japanese cancelled the Xeno project due to underwhelmng sales, so it is discontinued. They raised us so many unsolved mysteries and we wanted to know what happens since I think Xenosaga and Xenogears are in fact in the same universe. If episode IV (Xenosaga)did happened, then it would be where Shion and the gang returned to Earth to find Lost Jerusalem. As for Xenogears episode IV, it will be more like Lacan, Sofia, Roni, Krelian, and the others 500 years ago when they were in NIsan.
>> Da Mister
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Even the word "Deus" is controversial ( God, for latin ).

Ostende nobis Domine,
Ostende nobis,
Misericordiam tuam et
Salutare tuum da nobis

But it´s no wonder Xenosaga did not sell so well in Japan, religious content is blended with Christianism, not Budhism, or Shintoism.
>> Da Mister
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>>564550
No, they were MEANT to be connected, have you read the "xenosaga Official Designs Materials" book?, Tetsuya Takahashi suggested it clearly, if the series had all 5 episodes, as originally planned,this would have been revealed, here it´s also mentioned how Xenosaga was meant to take place 10,000 years ago from incidents of Xenogears, if you can get this book, do it, I can´t stress this point out enough.

>>564556
But also not-so-known facts took place, Namco Bandai played dirty on developers, stole scripts and fired the man and wife under Takahashi´s supervision after Xenosaga Episode III.
>> Da Mister
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Elly was totally different from all Solarians, she actually cared for others, no matter if they were "land dwellers", she was raised by a land dweller nanny, and her parents did not have issues against them either.
>> Anonymous
>>564563

Considering I helped out on the translation project at gamefaqs at the time, I'd say I'm passingly familiar with ODM, yes, thank you.

That doesn't change the fact that the two series' are not connected to eachother. XG was intended to have 6 episodes, not 5(although XG was subtitled episode 5.) This was the plan when the series was still XenoGEARS and not XenoSAGA.

The various circumstances between Gears and Saga neccisitated starting over and remaking the series. Gears is not, will not, and never will be Episode 5 of Xenosaga. It is Episode 5 of XenoGears.
>> Da Mister
>>564570
Yes, but in an interview with Famitsu, Takahashi said so, all parts were meant to be connected; Xenogears was created as a self-contained story, supposedly with no relation, but developers decided to add flavor to Xenosaga with misterious connections, but the change of publisher, problems and sales prevented them from doing so, sadly.

Squaresoft was worried such an ambicious proyect would perform well, so they denied the necessary fundings.
>> Da Mister
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Graph took over the body of Fei´s father, but he was quite powerful, and he managed to free himself sometimes, appearing before Fei as Wiseman; shockingly, that battle was held between Graph and I.D. against Fei´s father.
>> Anonymous
>>564576
Is this why FFVII overwhelmed the world while Xenogears was long forgotten? To me, it sounds like Squaresoft's lame excuse to milk the FF franchise for all its worth. You can see that there were serious budget cuts on the second disc of Xenogears. Plus, US people have dim views on religion in video games.
>> Anonymous
>>564576

Meant to be isn't the same thing as is, no matter what some fanboys like to cry for. Hell, you like to sound familiar with this stuff. Don't you know in Perfect Works, it even says what the episodes were supposed to cover in Gears' universe? Xenosaga 1-3, plus Pied Piper, would all fall under the heading of Episode 1, even if the events and timeline were the same(which they are not.) That's a fuck of a big episode.

The series' are drawing from the same idea of what they wanted to do with it, but they are NOT the same. Saga and Gears are seperate series', related to eachother only in the same alternate-universe way Pretty Sammy is related to Tenchi Muyo. Accept it and move on.
>> Da Mister
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The eye of God, related diredctly to Deus, as a religious concept, was taken as inspiration by Christianism from ancient religions, like the Kabalah, the "Circle of Life", or Zarathustra ( Friedrich Nietzche anybody? ).
>> Anonymous
Is your average video gamer too stupid to comprehend the complexity of Xenosaga and Xenogears? I can plainly see it from X-Play. I swear that those people have ADD or ADHD. Not all gamers are like that. The reason we play RPGs is primarily the story, not graphics. This generation of gamers seems to be graphic whores.
>> Anonymous
>>564585

That's XPlay though. Once G4 took over tech TV, the show gradually got worse and worse about substance vs. flash. Sad, too, because it used to be a pretty fun show to watch.

I wouldn't really say it represents the average gamer, though, unless you think Spike TV represents the average white guy.
>> Anonymous
>>564585
QTF, and if I may say so, Amen.

Xenogears was the first RPG to hook me for 80+ hours straight.
Graphics were already horrible at the time, but once you were in the story, you were in for good.
>> Da Mister
>>564582
I´m already aware of it..., but several, years later, the team responsible of the last games only made it worse by adding unncessary coments about it, in this book you are talking about ( I own it as well ), they are treated as separate parts.

I´m not "sounding familiar" with the subject, I know my business ( ever since 10 years ago ), I have not completed my research for hard-to-find information, since much of the rest is accesible.

I´m not pretending to sound cocky, but I have tried hard to obtain materials.
>> Da Mister
>>564581
This is precisely the reason why Xenogears was delayed for several months for the U.S. release ( a few copies were available, but at extremely high prices ).

Since Square had a huge gold mine with FF, no need to bother about XG, or Parasite Eve, just to name a few.

Stories are the essence of RPG´s, it bothers me a bit too, because technical aspects are placed in first place, and the rest left abandoned.
>> Kebinu !GhiZeo/aQQ
>>564581

More like the reason Square didn't have the capital was because of their stupid idea to invest most of the company's net worth into that stupid Final Fantasy movie and almost went bankrupt when it bombed. That's the real reason you're seeing all those FF rereleases and remakes. Minimum development costs, easy profit from nostalgic fanboys (guilty as charged). They're just trying to get back to where they were.

The claim about religion was trumped up; that was just something they tried to use as a marketing ploy to make the game seem controversial. The gaming world is very different from when stuff like early Castlevanias and the like were censored by Nintendo. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night came out a full year before, chock full of Christian stuff (and nudity) and no one raised a fuss. Plus, Final Fantasy Tactics took an even harsher view of religion and not a peep was uttered about it.

1997-1998 was probably Square's zenith. After that they forgot that you have to have a good story, characters and gameplay to go along with graphics and started churning out overrated crap like Final Fantasy 8, Chrono Cross and Legend of Mana, running their greatest franchises into the ground (as well as foisting crap like Chocobo Racing on us).

Final Fantasy 7 is probably the reason Square ever felt there was enough of a U.S. RPG market to release Xenogears here. Really, it paved the way for a whole generation of great RPGS over the next year or two after its release. But it warped their thinking as a company and caused them to want to be known as "that company with the cool cutscenes" more than the "addictive-as-crack-to-play game company".
>> Anonymous
>>564631
Who knew the most well-written game related post on 4chan would be on a porn board.
>> Anonymous
>>564637

My thoughts exactly.
I'm a Xeno fan and find this fascinating but...

Why is this in /e/ of all places?????
>> Kebinu !GhiZeo/aQQ
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>>564656

You were expecting intelligent discussion in /v/?

I agree, though. This board is supposed to be about naked girls. And therein lies the problem; even ten years after its release there's precious little Xenogears stuff, and what there is is mostly /h/ (and often awful quality).
>> Anonymous
I expect all of /e/ to have indepth discussions on culture, philosophy, and life in general. I wouldn't mind if /e/ was the only board here, but of course that would have irreconcilable consequences.
>> Anonymous
ah Xenogears. My favorite Jrpg. its the only game i can replay over and over.

I also have the book in the OP's picture sitting nice and new in my bedroom drawer. I'm actually trying to sell it cause i need the money.
>> Anonymous
>>564656
Because this is 4chan, and /e/ and sometimes /u/ tend to be the center of any and all intelligent discussion.
>> Da Mister
>>564724
Please don´t do it, it´s a treasure to be kept.

Indeed, Castlevania had a lot of content considered taboo, ( T rating, and no special descriptors about nudity or the rest ) all this noise came from inside, thus, the rest took the bait (it wasn´t so hard to have an impact here).

And about funding, that FF:TSW movie bankrupted Square ( FFXIII only for the PS3 as of now ), ended up even with the fussion with Enix, commercial success over original, fascinating ideas, but "risky" from their perspective.

And besides, this is no game for casual players, has its own requirements for the player ( Wii has based its enormous success on this new sector of the market ).

As you know, Monolith Soft was absorbed by Nintendo ( Yasunori Mitsuda worked for the OST of SSBB ), there is practically no chance for now for Xenosaga even to be mentioned, there was a rumor for a new adventure game based on KOS-MOS, ( Dirge or Cerberus, remember? ) hopefully that won´t happen.
>> Da Mister
>>564738
I can think of no other game worth this much, discussions, debates, furthering studies for all related issues; hell, I even made research trips because of it!
>> Anonymous
>>564738
There's intelligence on /u/? Wow.
>> Da Mister
For everybody wishing to post pics only, please do it, all contributions are welcome.
>> Anonymous
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I only read OP, so I apologize to the other posts for this being outta left field, but I have to praise the subject at hand too God damn, probably going on a decade ago when I first played it. ...I used to love Xenogears.

...And realized I still do, but I had to reflect and eat a little humble pie beforehand. Now, four years of mostly western religious (hebraic, christian theological, a little roman/greek, others) undergrad work later, I tried playing it this winter break again and couldn't take it seriously.

HOWEVER, that it gets anon to post threads like this reinvigorates my love of it regardless. And, maybe more importantly, it was one of a few things that first chipped at justification of my insipid midwestern religious upbringing. Sure, like a child jumping on legos, Japanese RPG writers have a bad habit of haphazardly ramming religous traditions together but the presence of any subject matter as weighty as religion for, say, young gamers, makes for an engaging and entertaining lesson in perspective and humility.

TL;DR version: Raised by semi-fundie Protestant parents in an insular environment, a Midwestern gamer anon looks back at Xenogears and, in spite of his own incredulity at its overall intellectual value, can't deny it being an amazing experience for him when he was young.

btw boobs
>> Anonymous
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moar
>> Anonymous
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bunny
>> Anonymous
I always just guessed that the -Mother- that was given to Abel was created from some gentetic part of Nephelim or Shion. And by any chance was Dues some form of Gnosis?
>> Anonymous
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>> Anonymous
>>564850

If the Xeno project went exactly as it was, I'd say he'd be the precursor of the Gnosis if that were possible.

Sometimes, we gamers can be such pricks because we don't exactly possess cultivated minds that lets us realize we have a very good thing in front of us, but no, we ignore it and we get too caught up with other games like Halo, SSB, Metal Gear, ect. We get so hooked into the mainstream games that such great games like Okami tend to get ignored despite how well made they are in terms of graphics, play mechanics and story and in some ocasions we should take the blame for it.

Of course, it can be a mixed bag sometimes on games that are different from the mold and yet they manage to be successful. Persona 3 may not be a graphical masterpiece like say, FF XIII, but the quality and depth of the story makes it stand out really well, as is the case of most games of Shin Megami Tensei (but that's a discussion for another time. Anyone want to make one?).

At any rate, sorry for including these facts, but I wanted to make a point as of why Xenogears wasn't as appreciated by gamers when it came out. We can be such pricks.
>> Anonymous
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ALL XENOS MUST BE DESTROYED FOR THE GOOD OF THE EMPEROR
>> Anonymous
>>564739

fine i won't sell it.
>> draker !KtMudshitI
omg DaMister is the worst namefag ever
>> Anonymous
stop posting shitty picture in my /e/ faggot
gb2/a/ faggot
>> Hyper Cutter !XQ6W0CNp/o
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>>the "Babel Tower"
FUCK NO YOU ARE THE MOST ANNOYING DUNGEON EVER!
>> Kebinu !GhiZeo/aQQ
>>565035

What's the matter? Too TALL for you?
>> Anonymous
>>565035

Go play Tactics Ogre and go down Hell's Gate, then come back and say that.

100 floors of brain-destroying tedium laughs at babel's silly jumping puzzle.
>> Anonymous
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damn. last place i expected to find a discussion on xenosaga/gears.

It's a shame really that mane people consider the plot hard to follow. Thats probably why the franchise has no future.

I finished III last week. Depressing ending despite all the plot holes. I saw KOS-MOS's death coming (obvious plot twist is obvious) but just....not like that. ;_;

Also, I STILL don't fully understand the complete significance of Lost Jerusalem in the end of the game. Sure, the planet now contains the collective minds of ALL Gnosis (formerly humans, right?), chaos and Mary, but for what specific purpose does Shion set out (and probably spend the rest of her life looking) to find Lost Jerusalem?

also, is this picture ok for /e/?
>> Anonymous
Saged and reported