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Anonymous
Anime writefags, I know you're in here. And I have a question to ask you.

What is the general consensus on the use of Japanese honorifics in an English language story? Is it okay, is it necessary, or is it plain fucking stupid?
>> Anonymouse
Personally... I think it's okay. You don't really need it, but, without it you just sound like another dumb fuck who doesn't know jack about Japanese. Without the honorific mumbo jumbo, they probably don't sound very Japanese, now do they?

I'd also use it only if it feels right though, like in a modern Japanese setting. If I were writing like something in a scifi or medieval, I'd say screw it. But that's just me.
>> Anonymous
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if the characters are actually Japanese and the honorifics are used correctly then it's fine. It's the randomly inserted fangirl japanese terms that are plain fucking stupid. "ONEGAI~ WATASHI WA~ NE~". RAGE.
>> Anonymous
It's generally okay as long as you know how to use the honorifics. I've read stories where people use such a thing and just flat out have no clue what they're doing, and it just makes the story come off as sounding very oddly written.

I think it's perfectly fine though, since characters in the story are japanese and it makes sense to write out such a thing given their speech and such.
>> Anonymous
OP here.

So am I right in concluding that honorifics are fine as long as it's not overdone and it's in-character?
>> Anonymous
Japanese honorifics are perfectly fine with me, since there are no direct translations in English.
>> Anonymous
No, it's plain fucking retarded. No Japanese person who comes to an English-speaking country goes around inserting honorifics after people's names.

Stick with Mr. and Mrs. for respect, for god's sake.
>> Anonymous
>>989763
This. And don't forget KAWAII NEKO DESU! Record speed rage.

If you know how to doitrite, go for it. If not...I wouldn't try.
>> Anonymous
>>989982
Should have probably noted I'm aware that those aren't honorifics.
>> Anonymous
>>989767

'Nother writefag here. I'd say leave them off. It's a bit like writing a Death Note story and always calling the characters Raito and Eru. You can use it for emphasis sometimes.

For example, maybe Ray Penbar notes that Light's sister calls him 'raito' but all the FBI agents call him 'light' or something. But it would seem redundant for her to say 'raito-san' because it's assumed she respects her brother.

Or if you have a fic where a Japanese character is speaking English and they tend to address people in certain ways or they tend to mix Japanese and English. Example: ["Faru-san," Nagi mumbled hesitantly, taking another bite of banana. "Are you going to be picking me up after school this afternoon?"]

Oh, and nicknames! I don't see this a lot in other fandoms, but I see it a lot in Weiss Kreuz. It's perfectly find to have someone call Ken 'Kenkun' or 'Kenken' or to call Yohji 'Yotan' or whatever. It would be the same as having a character call someone Kimmy in the dialog as opposed to Kimberly.

I'd definitely avoid the more common honorifics, though (-chan, -san, -kun, -sempai, etc.) just because they tend to seem like your showing off your M4d j4p4n3z3 skillz rather than just writing the damn story.
>> Anonymous
Honorifics are permissible if the story takes place in Japan and they are relevant to the content of the story/your characterization. Do not use them unless you have an actual /use/ for them. It is okay to use foreign words if there is no English equivalent as long as you Italicize them, and don't overuse them or include them arbitrarily.
>> Anonymous
I don't mind Japanese honorifics like -san, -sama-, -chan etc. in an English fanfic so long as there's a POINT to their use beyond "LOOKIT ME I'M USING JAPANESE HEHEHEHE!" Like if there's one character who canonically calls someone something very different than what everyone else does, I can see why it'd be included.
>> Anonymous
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OP again.

Thanks for the enlightenment, everyone. You've helped this newfag a hell lot. I'll keep all your pointers in mind.
>> Anonymous
this isn't about honorifics but this is something that downright irritates me

when fic writers attempt to translate english slang into jap

main example instead of writing "oh god" replacing it with "kami"
>> Anonymous
>>990872
Fucking word. HOWEVER, I would rather read a "kami" in a fic than another "oh gods" (pl.) Nothing kills any suspension of disbelief in me faster than the author foisting their own religious conventions on the reader in the middle of a fic.

I think use of japanese is entirely relevant to how the character generally speaks in the original series. For example, take Reborn: Tsuna uses Gokudera-KUN, Yamamoto (no honorific), Hibari-SAN, Ryohei is onii-san, etc. Whatever retains some degree of believability in the dialogue, really.

Just avoid using it in the narrative, that gets annoying FAST.
>> Anonymous
>>990889
thats how i would prefer it written too
just follow what the characters normally do when it comes to honorifics, status titles, and nicknames
sometimes its part of their personalities and relationships

and another thing i don't like seeing is random jap words that aren't significant to the series or the fic's plot stuck into english sentences

its just really out of place
>> Anonymous
>>989967
I agree with this. It sounds fucking stupid. You're not japanese, just... stop.
>> Anonymous
>>990031
Well, it was never "raito" or "eru". It was always Light and L even in Japanese, Light only use "raito" to pronounce his name or "spell" his name in Japanese.

>>989967
But a Japanese person would use it in Japan.

Writefag and moon rune speaker here, use honorifics in a Japanese setting ONLY or the speakers are Japanese. Otherwise don't use them.
>> Anonymous
>>989762Without the honorific mumbo jumbo, they probably don't sound very Japanese, now do they?

They aren't supposed to sound Japanese. It's much more important that they sound human.

Listen to>>990766!>>990766knows what they're talking about. Except for the italics. Your target audience is perfectly familiar with the terms you'll be using, so there's no need to italicise - unless the culture differences are among your central themes or something, I guess.
>> Yves
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Ah, well I'd agree with the people who are saying only use honourifics as the characters use the honourifics. That is part of their characterization. I'm also okay with things like kouhai, sempai and sensei as long as it's being used like it is in the original series.

I'm not as fond of throwing random phrases in that are not native to the language you are writing in unless:
1: The character has a catch phrase or saying, like Ryoma Echizen's 'Mada Mada Dane' or if they have a speach pattern like Dan ending everything in '-desu' that is a part of the character and feels odd when they suddenly lack it.

2: The character is foreign in terms of the regular setting. An example here is that say you are writing a story for Persona 3 in English, you can't have the characters talk in Japanese even though it is set in Japan, have it all in English. But the Character Bebe is FRENCH and is in Japan and in the Japanese game speaks in broken French and Japanese, in the US game he speaks in an odd sort of French-English-Japanese, so it would be A-OK to have him use odd Japanese or French phrases to emphasize that he is not natively speaking that language. This I would think also applies to a character that though Japanese, uses foreign phrases, like Tsuzuki from Yami no Matsuei actual uses 'Sankyuu' instead of 'Thank you'.

3: There is no good translation. Sometimes there just isn't a word in the language you are writing in for what you want to say, it happens. Just be very sparing and make sure it is something other people will understand. Like writing a story in English and using the term déjà vu. Is it English? Non. Will in annoy people? Probably not.
>> Yves
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Also, I am willing to forgive something if you are writing in something that is not your native language. My favourite English author natively speaks Portuguese, so while her English is wonderful she sometimes uses Japanese phrases. But neither English or Japanese are her native manner and they do tend to mix sometimes when you are thinking in a foreign language.

Things to keep in mind while reading:
1:
Q:What are these crazy phrases, why can this person not write?
A:Okay, yes they are writing in your language but WHERE are they from? Keep in mind that sometimes the difference in dialects are extreme. The United States has a different sort of English than the United Kingdom, mock the funny 'U's in colour as you will, it's normal somewhere else. Or like French in France and French in Quebec. Le fun, really guys? LE FUN? Almost every language I can think of has a regional dialect or a variation, like Lithuanian 's Samogitian or Latvian's Latgalian.
Maybe they really can't write, but before you comment on it consider the regional differences. You may also want to check if that author has any fics in another language, it may hint that they are not writing in their native tongue. I've seen a number of people run their stories through Babel Fish in an attempt to gain more English readership, which I would really not recommend, better to find a friend who knows the language you are translating into proofread it for you.
>> Yves
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2: Try not to yell at people for things that are full of 'Kawaii neko neko onegai!' instead constructive criticism may help them to improve instead of leaving them confused. I've seen a number of gibberish using authors grow to create great works of fiction, and all they needed was a nudge in the write direction, but I have also seen people give up after a number of angry rants that were only insults and did not highlight things that they needed to work on. That writer that you find awful today may grow to write your favourites in a few years.

Ah, it seems as though I've rambled a bit. I hope that wasn't too much of a bother to read, I wish you the best of dreams towards your future writings! If you ever need any one to proofread for you feel free to contact me, either by e-mail or via aim (Yves sorts.)
>> Anonymous
>>989967

There's more than just using 'san', like 'dono', 'sama', 'kun', etc, suffixes that you can't translate into English, but are necessary to describe one person's relationship to another.

But yeah, these suffixes don't really have a place outside of anime-based fics.
>> Anonymous
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>>991278like Tsuzuki from Yami no Matsuei actual uses 'Sankyuu' instead of 'Thank you'

What do you mean by that? That it's okay to spell Tsuzuki's reply as "Sankyuu" instead of "Thank you"? If yes, I disagree. "Sankyuu" is a Japanese word meaning "thank you", and it can be easily translated into English, so there's no reason to leave it in English-influenced Japanese.

>run their stories through Babel Fish
Oh wow. I'm so glad I've never encountered this.
>> Anonymous
>>992344
Incorrect, in my opinion. Being Japanese and saying 'Sankyuu' is like being English and saying 'Arigato' to someone. It's noticeable, a quirk if you will. I would rather the person writing stay true to that.
>> Anonymous
Apparently no one's addressed this, but please don't use honorifics just because the series is Japanese, regardless of whether it's set there. For example I keep running into Death Note fic set at Wammys (in England!) where everyone's throwing around honorifics, like kun. They may well know Japanese, but they aren't Japanese or in Japan.
>> Anonymous
>>989759
Well, so long as that's all they do, and it's a really REALLY good story, I'm okay with it. Especially if it's needed to explain a relationship progressing from honorifics, to no honorific to first-name basis. But if it's just tossed in there with no reason, it makes me roll my eyes and head to the next webpage.

So, uhh.....Disapprove, overall, I guess.
>> Anonymous
This is the only Japanese I will tolerate in English-language fics. It has to be for a fandom that is set in Japan or a fictional equivalent (i.e. not Fullmetal Alchemist or Trigun, but Naruto would be OK) and it can ONLY be in dialogue when a character canonically refers to someone else with the honorific. Don't just throw them around if they're not canon, don't use them in series where such a thing doesn't exist, and don't use them if they're not necessary.

But I think, like, Orihime using honorifics when speaking to/about Ichigo ("Kurosaki-kun" or whatever) is completely acceptable, and would even look weird if she DIDN'T, because she does so much in canon. Y/n?
>> Anonymous
>>990889
This pretty much sums up my opinion. If a character speaks that way and it's the way they are recognized as speaking, it's fine to include it in the dialogue as sounds realistic for them as long as it isn't included in your own narration, since that would just sound dumb. But I do think the character would have to use the honorific meaningfully and prominently, otherwise there's no point in including it, since then you'd have to have everyone constantly using honorifics which becomes very distracting.

The same is true for any personality quirks, like the sankyuu example Yves gave. If it's prominent and something that character is known for, it keeps them in character to keep it in the story. Canon 'feel' is a good thing, and is very distinct from inserting fangirlish japanese every few lines.

So for me it depends on the situation. I don't think that many characters use honorifics prominently enough to justify using them in writing, since they are commonplace. If the character just doesn't sound in-character without them (like if they make an effort to create distance between themselves and another character constantly with formal honorifics in a way that can't otherwise be appropriately conveyed, for example), that would be a good reason to use them.
>> Anonymous
If you're writing a story in English, I don't see the point of inserting Japanese honorifics. Even if the story is set in Japan, you're still writing it in English.

When people translate Japanese novels into English, they don't need the honorifics. A good writer can convey the relationships without having them.
>> Anonymous
I've gotten to the point where I'm so hard-pressed to find fanfic that doesn't suck that I'll forgive just about any of this stuff, lately.
>> Anonymous
>>993132When people translate Japanese novels into English, they don't need the honorifics. A good writer can convey the relationships without having them.

You can theoretically do without honorifics, but it's an unnecessary complication. All of your target audience is familiar with them anyway and they add another layer of nuance to your relationships.
>> Anonymous
>>993565

you can add "nuance" by just building character relationships. And honestly, it's fanfic. It's not like the readers don't know who the characters are and what their relations are.
>> Anonymous
>>992994
Yes. This.