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Creating Substrate in a Freshwater Aquarium Anonymous
I would try Google but you guys over at /an/ have always been a better help.

I'm thinking of putting together a larger aquarium for my fish to grow in. I have a 150 gallon tank that I'm currently updating, (filter wise, pumps, etc.) and I'd like to use some sand and soil to make a nice "substrate" instead of the old gravel rocks from Walmart - problem is I have no idea what "substrate" actually is and how to set it up properly as well as what to use.

I'm guessing a particular style depends on the fish. Well, I have a Pleco that will probably get bigger than just 5" in this aquarium, 2 Bichirs as well as a third one in the future, and a Rocket Gar.

Anyway, what would you guys recommend as an appropriate setup as far as what kind of gravel or sand to use as well as the soil underneath (I think there's soil, right?) and also what are some things I should know when setting this up? Pros/Cons, what to watch out for, etc.

Thanks in advance
>> Anonymous
Use soil or sand if you want plants, otherwise just go with gravel.
>> Anonymous
>>199486
Kay well I'll most likely have plants because they're usually better to keep a healthy tank.
>> Anonymous
I've got two tanks, both with sand. One has black sand, but it's pretty rough with differently sized particles. Kind of dusty, too. In that tank, I also have laterite for plant growth and a little bit of naturally colored gravel. I liked the mixed look.

My other tank has white sand that I think was a lot more synthetic, it's all a uniform shape/size and it settles very quickly after being disturbed.

Both of them are pretty easy to clean, vacuuming the bottom only sucks up a small amount of the substrate.

I dunno, you could probably google search for planted aquariums and find some good step-by-step guides. I pretty much winged it, threw in some tough fish and easy to grow plants, and did all right.
>> Anonymous
>>199487

If you get soil for the bottom of the tank, think about investing in some sort of mesh to line the top of the soil to both anchor the plants and stop the soil getting everywhere.

You should also have a layer of sand or gravel on top of the soil too so that it doesn't muddy the waters.
>> Anonymous
150gal?! 150litre maybe?

Soil? Wahh? Not needed, never used. Gewgle planted aquarium.
>> Anonymous
A fertilizer soil from Dennerle or some other company and on top of that aquarium sand.
There's special sand that is coated with a plastic and rounded, so when you clean your tank, you can't scratch the glass.
Of course normal sand is ok too.
>> Anonymous
>>199741
If you're worried about the gas buildup, either don't make it more than 2 inches thick, or get a bunch of malaysian trumpet snails. The snails burrow through the substrate, keeping it moving so it doesn't get the gas bubbles.
>> Anonymous
>>199741
>So I guess fine sand is a bad thing
Maybe I was a little overdramatic with sand. If you want sand go with sand. You just have to know what to expect. To prevent a buildup of gases you do not make it deeper then 2 inch and clean the sand whenever you do water changes and siphon you gravel. Be careful with fine sand to not siphon it in the backet together with water, it can be hard to avoid. The other problem with FINE sand I didnt named is that it gets everywhere since it is so light. When you change your water it flies all over the tank and you have a sandstorm for couple minutes. If you have a fish that likes to dig (ie loach) the sand is gona fly. Now this is not a bad thing by itself, some fish HAS to dig to feel good about themselves so sand is a must, you just have to be aware of it before setting up. Also whenever sand flies it can get in your filter and screw it up. And its harder to get the poop out of sand then out of gravel.
And what exactly do you mean by sand? Ones man sand is anothers boulders. For me sand is anything smaller then 1mm (1/32'' for empiricalfags), I have a tank with 2mm gravel and it works great, but some people name it coarse sand.
Also sand might not hold your plants in one place - you change water and all plants are uprooted. No fun.
You can even go with a white sand, for "sea-like" effect, just know that many fish do not like bright substrate, thats all. Hell, if you want to you can go with 3m colour quarz sand - Ive never used it, but it has nice colours and it "sticks" together better. http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/ColorQuartz/HomePage/Products/Crystals/ I believe it was reported as "the best sand there is", good luck finding it though.
>> Anonymous
Malaysian trumpet snails (MTS as they are called) will help you and your plants, especialy if you decide to go with sand - they move inside the gravel like earthworms inside the soil and help aearate plant roots and destroy anaerobic pockets. They are harmless to your plants and quite hardy to withstand atacks of almost all fish. But there is a catch as well. THEY REPRODUCE LIKE FUCK. In a month time you can get thousands out of two snails you started with. Those snails crawl out at night and every morning you will be greated by living carpet of snails. It is very hard to regulate their number. So if you like me love snails - get them, if not - better stay away from them. If you accidently got them you can get rid of them by geting a loach (skunk loach, group of clown loaches) - but what are you going to do with fat loach after you ran out of snails?
>And when you mean sharp edges do you mean sharp rocks?
How to explain it... your bichirs and pleco are going to spend most of their tank crawling on this substrate. When food falls down they are going to eat it and pieces of gravel going to end up inside their mouthes. You sort of have to have a common sence in there - if you would be the size of the fish would you be able to go emo with this sand? If yes - pick up something else. Example of sharp edged "sand" is crashed corral sand, crushed shells. Normal beach sand, play sand, filter sand are not sharp.
>going 2 or more inches - 1 inch in different areas
Yep, thats the most common - about 3 inch on a back, then gradualy goes down to 1 or 2 inch in front. This way you can place big plant at the back and the foreground plants in the foreground. Plus it looks good.
In my experience i find that 1 inch does not hold anything well, 2 inch is good, 3 is majestic. Some people go deeper then that, I do not.
>> Anonymous
Setting up with a soil can be fun. Its an experiment, it is something new. But I would not advise setting up a 150g soil tank as a first big tank. Too much can go wrong. Take it easy, go the common route.
>the 20-40$ a bag, those are the specialized substrates correct?
http://www.aquariumguys.com/ecocomplete.html
First google search on eco-completer, 17.99
If you can afford buying ~10 bags of it go for it, its a great substrate for plants. Essentialy it is a black sand with some magic in it, so it a)comes preloaded with nutrients b)holds nutrients very well. The common sand does not hold shit all, and so plants starve in there. Flourite is esentualy the same. ADA soil is a specialy prepered soil for tank - the best massproduced aquarium substrate for your plants, but can be an ass to work with - it is very light and flyes everywhere as soon as substrate is disturbed. Plus it is usualy somewhat around $40 a bag. If you are going to use ADA without CO2 and good light you are wasting your money.
But be careful buying substrate online - they have very good prices, but you end up paying for shiping more then for the merchandise.
>> Anonymous
>plain aquarium sand
3m colorquartz (expensive quality sand that everyone is raving about) sand goes for about $20 for 50lbs bag, your regular gravel or pool filter sand can cost from $5 and up for 50lbs in homedepot or any other store. You just have to make sure that this sand does not have any metals or any other chemicals that can affect water in your tank. To know what exactly to look for lurk on fish forums.

One more thing. 150g tank gona weight about 800-1000 kg (thats about 2000lb). Not every floor can support it. I hope you do live in your own house.
Here is a good article about "how large an aquarium can my floor support" http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article28.html

"Aquariums up to 55 gallons can be placed almost anywhere without much worry at all. Many tanks larger than 55 gallons and no more than 125 gallons will be okay, if they are placed in a good structural location and your floor framing is free from significant defects. For example, a 125 gallon tank, on a wooden stand, placed perpendicular to the joists up against a bearing wall, will often be okay without any additional structural support. If your tank is over 125 gallons, then it is likely that you should consider adding supports under your wood framed floor. Please realize that these are generalities that may or may not apply to your particular situation."
>> Anonymous
>>199740
Oh wow, 400 bucks is a nice price for 150 gallon aquarium.
I was always wondering, how do you move tank that big? You'll need like six guys to lift it and its not gona fit in your trunk.
>> Anonymous
>>199808
Oh I've heard about the sand going everywhere when you do water changes. I hear the trick is to put something on top of the sand like a bucket top for the water to hit when it gets into the tank so that the sand doesn't fly, though the plants might still get fucked... well I can probably hold them down with some tabs but whatever.

The quarz sand sounds good but I might have to go looking around for it. I live down in miami, fl and I guess since there's ocean everywhere there's tons of fish shops down here, I may just be able to find it.

>>199810
I've heard of those snails, most snails seem to do that especially if you carry them into your tank with plants. Luckily that hasn't happened to me yet, would totally suck, like freakin starfish.

Alright, the sand in the food thing, that does make a fuck load of sense. My Senegal is an eating machine and consumes everything (Sometimes I have to trick it just so I can give my other fish time to feed lol). My Delhezi though might be Picky... My Pleco though was raised on a fish farm and should be fine, they raised him on veggies and lettuce and he's pretty healthy and active, I don't think he'd mind but we'll see what I do seeing as this is actually important shit I have to consider.
>> Anonymous
>>199812
Yeah, this is my first BIG tank so I doubt I'll touch the soil. My past tanks have been in between 10-30 gallons so yeah, big step.

And yeah, again I'm probably gonna have to look around for that too, consider my options, thanks for the info though.

>>199822
I'm going to have to do research on that pool filter sand, seeing as I doubt anyone at homedepot won't even know what I'm talking about...

As for the tank's weight, I'm perfectly fine. Down here in Florida, every house has to be fully made of strong fuckin concrete. Plus the ground beneath the house is virtually flat with no gaps anywhere, I should be fine.

Well, I think I'm good to go, you've been a great help anon thanks for the tips and I hope to get this going within the coming months. Again, thanks a bunch!

>>199834
Well, a truck is needed for sure. The stand itself weighs a bit and the tank itself is even heavier. Mines was made of glass though so that might've made it that much heavier. A few guys can carry it around though. I myself have been able to slide it across my floor - still a pain in the ass to maneuver.
>> Anonymous
if you want to run with a sand substrate you would have to manually stir it up every once in a while to release the gases, or get some loaches and they will do it for you have have the time of their freaking lives
>> Anonymous
I've used soil as a substrate for various planted and breeding tanks, and it is quite high maintenance. Stay away. 50/50 eco gravel is, IMO, most suitable for planted communities.