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Hyper-intelligent dog breeding? Anonymous
/an/,

I've always wondered...
could we fast track dog intelligence to be comparable to human intelligence?

If dogs reach sexual maturity in about a year, could a well funded organization take a whole bunch of dogs and breed 100 generation in 100 years. couldn't they put the dogs through intelligence testing, and only allow the top 25% to breed in each successive generation?

where's my intelligent dog?
>> Anonymous
Enjoy your lack of opposable thumbs
>> Anonymous
You'd waste millions of research dollars and you still wouldn't get human-level intelligence.
>> Anonymous
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>>205292
why not? artificial selection is already proven to work. pic related.
>> Anonymous
>>205295
Because God made humans smart.
>> Anonymous
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I like where this is going.
>> Anonymous
You're better off starting with humans, it's hard enough to find intelligent ones of them.
>> Anonymous
>>205295
But that corn isn't super smart, it's just tastey.

If one genuinley tried to breed the smartest dogs possible, by the time they were able to communicate with people they'd barely resemble dogs at all. Also, it took millions of years and generations for Homo sapiens to evolve our level of intelligence. You could never replicate that in another species in only 100 years.
>> Anonymous
Seriously, I've always wondered why we don't do this - maybe wouldn't get human level intelligence, sure, but the results would be interesting.
>> Anonymous
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The answer, my friends, is inbreeding. 100 dogs is only a very small gene pool. Every time you get rid of 75% of your dogs you'll be losing rarer genes, coming closer and closer to a monoculture. When this happens, a single disease could very easily wipe out the entire population - all dogs will have the same lack of immunity. If two particularly intelligent dogs happen to have recessive, disease causing genes on a certain vector, you'll also be packed with hereditary diseases.

At risk of being called a troll, the same thing happened with the Jews. People from a Jewish background, on average, have higher IQs than other ethnicities. This is because in Jewish societies, intelligence has been prized over physical fitness or beauty - idiots just didn't have kids. This is compounded by the fact that Jews almost always marry Jews - other ethnicities don't get to dilute the pool with stupid genes. However, Jews also have shorter lifespans and more hereditary diseases - inbreeding means that a higher proportion of the gene pool is made up of the recessive, disease causing alleles.

Ironically enough, you can work all this out statistically using the Harvey-Weinberg Equation, which helps give figures for the proportion of a given allele in a breeding population.

In short, your plan would create a group of slightly more intelligent, disease ridden dogs who are as ugly as Martin Clunes. Sorry.
>> Anonymous
>>205398
so start out with 1000 dogs instead of 100. also dogs have like 10 puppies to a litter. you could take only the top 25% and still have enough to maintain population and genetic diversity.
>> Anonymous
Your first problem is going to be to determine what is seen as "smart" in a dog. Shepherds and poodles are trainable, but as far as problem-solving, it would be dogs like huskies that are chosen - even though people often see them as dumb because of their independent streak.

And then you would just be working your way back up to the wolf's level of intelligence, in which case you should have just started with wolves in the first place. Dogs are considered "juvenile wolves" by animal behaviorists, they are always stuck at a sort of wolf cub-like stage which has given the dog the ability to adapt to strangers and strange places easily, but has supposedly "dumbed down" the species.
>> Anonymous
I was actually thinking about doing this with cats just yesterday.
While cats aren't as humanly sociable as dogs, they are higher up the chain on what most people consider to be intelligence.
>> Anonymous
>>205283
"Your move"
>> Anonymous
>>205283
Why would we want to?

You'd have to actually take them out before you fucked them then.
>> Anonymous
Define "intelligence," there are many sheep guarding breeds that, as a puppy, you can throw into a flock of sheep and they will do their job perfectly their whole life with little direction from anyone, pretty smart, but they wouldn't listen to a thing you say. At the other end you have border collies, their already is one that can distinguish bewteen like 300 objects, tell it to go get a green key it get the green key, ball, bottle etc...thats pretty smart too. And a doberman or mastiff, that knows exactly when you need a cuddle, when you need someone to lean on, when to growl, when to bite, and who to let in your front door, maybe even if its their first time visiting.
Then what about all the time trial border collies, or retreivers that can do amazing things just by hearing a series of whistles, or bomb dogs, cancer dogd, seeing eye dogs, dogs that know when you are fixing to stroke out, or go into a seizure, or have a heart attack, or even die.

So which diriection are you going to go, becuase dog selection tends to point to the fact that it is difficult to have it all in one package.

I think we already have superdog potential, you just have to have the time and right techniques, and right dog.
>> Anonymous
>>205398

...I'm sorry, no, go back to /n/ or /b/.

The Jewish population has never been small enough to cause inbreeding. And high average IQs among Jews mostly have to do with the fact that Jews usually value education, come from a high enough socioeconomic background to afford good nutrition during childhood, etc.
>> Anonymous
>>205672

Look at the population of Japan. Huge, huh? Yet, nearly all Japanese people in the upper classes are inbred due to the fact that Japanese have a social caste system that exists to this day. Because everybody marries pretty much within their unspoken caste lines, the ENTIRE NATION HAS FUCKED UP TEETH.

It doesn't matter how big the overall population is: I'm sure the overall population of Jews has always been large enough. However, even in the so-called 'biblical times', Jews only married between "cousins" (members of the same tribe). In fact, you can tell birth defects from incest was prevalent by reading between the lines: Leviticus states any son born with a birth defect was not allowed to be the "first son" to be presented at the Temple and carry the family line.

Even when they moved out to Europe, I hardly doubt that say, a Hungarian Jew would have married a German Jew. It is also a given that due to stigma involved in Jew/non-Jew relationships, such marriages are very rare even in this generation.

Even the Jewish people acknowledge that their race has a higher proportion of mental health issues, and many Jewish psychiatrists seriously discuss this.
>> Guodzilla
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You want a hyperintelligent dog? I got yer hyperintelligent dog RIGHT HERE!
>> Anonymous
>>205672
That you for having brain matter in your skull and not being afraid to use it.

>>205688
Jewish inbreeding? I'm a Jew and my parent's families came from opposite sides of Europe, and every other Jew I know is not inbred, so that sounds like a pretty bullshit theory to me, it's also rather offensive. Don't generalize, either, as my whole family is healthy and the women live long (my great-grandma lived to 100), and unfortunately I'm not that smart even though I'm Jewish. Though the Jew/Jew marriages thing is true, as we have to make sure that in fifty years there'll be more than ten of us left.

Otherwise, take this shit to /b/.
>> Anonymous
>>205805
Actually anon, if you were to know anything about genetic diseases, then you would know that there are several that are only found in small populations of jews, and many that are much more prevalent in jewish populations than the general population.
The most famous example being Tay-Sachs disease among the Ashkenazi (read: "german and eastern europe" Jews. Some of the others include:

Bloom syndrome
Breast cancer and ovarian cancer (due to higher distribution of BRCA1 and BRCA2)
Canavan disease
Colorectal cancer due to hereditary nonpolyposis colorectal cancer
Congenital adrenal hyperplasia (non-classical form
Crohn's disease
Cystic fibrosis
Familial dysautonomia (Riley-Day Syndrome
Fanconi anemia
Gaucher's disease
Hemophilia C
Kaposi's sarcoma
Mucolipidosis IV
Niemann-Pick disease
Pemphigus vulgaris
Tay-Sachs disease
Torsion dystonia
Von Gierke disease
(thanks to wiki for those)

So uhmm...yes, many populations of jews were fucking bat-shit inbreed...luckily for probably you and many others, all it takes is one person in the family tree to "fuck outside of the box" to get things pretty much back to normal again.
>> Anonymous
>>205819
You idiot, just stop feeding them fucking crap like Iams. Switch to something good and meat based such as California Natural, or Wellness.
>> Anonymous
>>205819

THANK YOU, anon. The another anon's failing genetic theory was beginning to get to me.
>> Anonymous
>>205805

Look, no matter how much you deny it, the majority of Jews are inbred fucks because they only married within their immediate community of Jews. It's also a given that Jews won't even intermarry with other groups of Jews.

>>205819has the entire list right down pat.

Also, it is impossible for you to know for sure that a certain family has genetic incest or no. Legal ideas of incest are different from how far the common alleles could be matched. In order to escape genetic incest, the rule is "cousins twice removed". In small pockets of communities, it ends up that everyone *is* related to each other, and genetic incest is impossible to avoid.
>> Anonymous
>>205848
You're an idiot. You might as well be trying to argue that Catholics who marry Catholics are inbreeding.
>> Anonymous
>>205853

No, YOU'RE the idiot.

Catholics who live out in hicksville and only marry within said hicksville IS inbreeding. It doesn't MATTER how many Catholics in overall there are, because the community is still marrying within itself.
>> Anonymous
>>205855
The argument is that Jews are inbred. But that assumes that all Jews are members of the same population, which of course they are not. Just like all Catholics are not among the same population. Besides a few isolated orthodox communities (which every religon has), Jews do not simply "breed among themselves".
>> Anonymous
>>205858
Jews did start out in one smaller area, and unlike Christians they didn't try converting everyone in sight. It's natural they'd have a less diverse gene pool. Stop being so butthurt, you Jew.
>> Anonymous
jews stick with jwes this is a fact, just read the talmud, "promote jewish interests above gentile" "It is ok to steal and lie to a gentile" "Does it benefit the jew?"
>> Anonymous
>>205874
check out how close the jews care to being a significant power during Claudius's reign, they betrayed Claudius and got their asses owned because of it
>> Anonymous
jews bred with europeans, just look at how 'white' they look, ashkenazi jews used to look like arabs
>> Anonymous
OMG this forum filled with retards racist people.
Im a Jew from israel (atheist btw)
and all you wrote is fucking nonsense.
and stop generalizing, jews this jews that.
If you mean the fucking beardy religous freaks say so, don't mark all the of us like them, cause we are not! most of us are looking and behaving just like everyone on everyday life. you won't know we are jews walking down the street I'll bet on it.
all in all all those believing in god will behave strangly than the "normal" us, jews christians and muslims the famous of them.
FYI jews and in Israel specially are gathered from all around the world...it's wrong to say our race only is full of "bad genes" , every country today which allow immigration have some problems with clash of genes (mostly from opposite areas aroudn the globe) but it's rare thing, not common. you hanging on thin air with no actual proof to your saying, give proof or stfu.
(sorry if I wrote with many mistakes, I'm at work atm and don't have the time to correct it, bare with it.)
>> Anonymous
>>205886

... look, no matter HOW much you would like to hop up and down and label everyone antisemite, Ashkenazi Jews have some of the worst effects of inbreeding in the world.
If you must feel vindicated, all those diseases are the same the British nobility, the Egyptian pharaohs and the Japanese ruling elite suffers from. What remained of the Korean Royal family suffered this too, where up to something like 3 princes were killed because tehy were born without an anus.

It is also the same diseases the Roma suffers from.

i.e. people for various reasons of powerplay and the glory of the household, did not marry outside a few families of their choosing.

>>205858

ARE YOU FUCKING STUPID? Jews lived in small isolated communities that rarely intermarried with the general population OR with other communities, and by these pockets of communities, we're talking 200-300 at most. AND they didn't intermarry between communities.

In fact, the mass exodus of Jews due to the Holocaust is probably the only reason Jewish people are intermarrying outside of what would have been their normal communities.
>> Anonymous
>>205886
?? ????, ????? ??????? ???. ??? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ?an, ???? ????.
>> Anonymous
>>205890Ashkenazi Jews have some of the worst effects of inbreeding in the world.

True, but that's merely a tiny sub population of Jewish people throughout the world. I suppose you'd retort with something like "well their genes came from other jews!!1" Everyone, reguardless of their creed carries defective genes with them. If you form an isolated breeding population with any people, you'll see defective genes emerging within several generations. I could stick 25 Christians, 25 Jews, and 25 Muslims together, have them breed only amoung this sub population, and you'd still see genetic diseases start to wreck havoc in time.
>> Anonymous
>>205819
Hmm, speaking as an Ashkenazi Jew, I have to admit that I haven't heard of many if not most of the diseases you've listed, and that no one in my immediate or estranged family has ever had any of the genetic diseases you listed. Except perhaps breast cancer, which my grandmother got when she got in her late nineties. And although cancer may be hereditary, millions of woman are diagnosed each year that aren't inbreed and are otherwise healthy. Also, the wikipedia article you're referring from doesn't even mention inbreeding, only that Jews marry within their own social group and community, which is not the same as inbreeding at all.

Honestly, I think that none of the people claiming all this stuff about Jewish inbreeding are actually Jewish, so I'm not sure why anyone would bother believing it. Wikipedia isn't exactly the epitome of reliableness, either. The Jewish community is very against incest and inbreeding and has always been, read the Talmud; incest is an actual and punishable crime. I'm not saying inbreeding hasn't ever happened and didn't happen 2000 years ago in ancient Egypt or Rome when it was actually common among the elite, but it's not the least bit common now and hasn't been for hundreds of years. There have been just as many inbreed Christian and Muslims and Buddhists as Jews, I don't see why we're any different. There have been plenty of other marginalized groups that didn't inbreed. Some random thread on 4chan written by Christians isn't exactly the most reliable source for information on my own personal genetic heritage, obviously. If there was ever any excessive amounts of inbreeding in the Jewish community, I would definitely know of it, being a part of it. If anything, Jews are very aware of our history and are constantly assessing our situation, we'd know if something like inbreeding was an actual issue or not.
>> Anonymous
>>206011
As a biologist, nonracist/nonbigot, and poster of>>205819
I was not impying that all jewish people are inbred. I was stating facts. Facts that are in ANY, I repeat, ANY genetics textbook. To call me misinformed is ignorant. It cannot be denied that many jewish populations, and many other populations around the world, both past and present are inbred to varying degrees. I do not see how this is slanderous to your, or any, religion/culture/ethnicity (any I do think people should dicern between ethic jews and reigious jews). The truth of the matter is that for most of humanities history you could only fuck what was available, and/or familiar (to use a pun). Also, relatives can marry in many cases and be just fine. Within most families, 2nd cousins could fuck forever and the vast majority of the kids would be fine. But you catch some bad breaks here and there and your gene pool suffers (study up on the Hardy-Wineberg Eq).

tldr: Due to culture, religion, geography, and finding good lays in the 200 person european villages of yore, a population of jews has a higher incidence of genetic diseases...get over it.

PS most of these posters do seem a little ignorant/racist, but thats what 4chan is for, harmless catharsis, so niggerniggerniggerjewjewjewfuckcuntniggerjew
>> Anonymous
>>206011
And since you are obviously ignorant of many things, including your own culture. A little genetics and history lesson. People, you and I, barring any sexual deviance, are usually most attracted to people, whom, upon fucking and having children, produce children with healty immune systems/genetics. We do this by "smelling" the other persons MHCs, or major histocompatability complexs (google it). People with immune system genetics more different than our own are seemingly inexplicably more attractive. Then we fuck, and our kids have good immune systems. We also measure the genetics of our mate on how attractive they are. Literally, how pretty you are shows off how good your genes are and your health over the cuarse of your lifetime. Ideally you would like to fuck someone that is "hot." Why are they "hot?" Becuase they have good genes, and you want your kids to have those genes too!

Now...what is/was a Jewish tradition, a time honored part of their culture, one of the most honored members of their society?? Do you know??
The shadchan, or matchmaker! Fiddler on the Roof anyone?
Now how could somebody picking who fucks who in a small community, that has nothing to do with who these people find attractive to each other (because their genes and immune system are telling them that they have a good chance of having healthy offspring with that person) completely fuck up the genetics of that community...hmmm I don't know..how COULD that mess things up...uhmm Tay-Sachs etc... maybe
>> Anonymous
No bullshit, Ashkenazi Jew here. My family has an above-average IQ and my mother has an extremely rare genetic disease (a type of MD) that only Ashkenazi Jews get.
Hmmm. All makes sense now. Good thing my parents don't give a shit who I marry.
>> Anonymous
>>206133
Well, bummer for you. No special diseases in my family, Tfu Tfu Hamsa.
>> Anonymous
>>206092"I was not impying that all jewish people are inbred"

Then what do you call where you said "So uhmm...yes, many populations of jews were fucking bat-shit inbreed" in>>205819
>> Anonymous
>>206151

Obviously "many" doesn't translate to "all". Also, you'd like to think it was just Jews. The Japanese ruling elite also suffer from this shit too.

>>205977

Did you even read the rest of the post? Did the poster even SAY it was a "it's because the genes come from Jews"? The poster said that it is also what the British nobility sufferd from, as well as the Roma and whatnot.

My gawd, the faggotry here.
>> Anonymous
>>206102
incidently cajuns and french-canadians are just as likely as jews to get tay-sachs
>> Anonymous
non jew here, everyone in my family is smarter than jews

my sister married a jew because the jew had jew money and realized that she was smart