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Anonymous
Your opinions on this dude, /an/?

I only just recently started watching his show and honestly, I'm not entirely comfortable with some of the more extreme methods he uses to treat aggression. I can't remember which episode it was, but this one time he had a dog-aggressive mixed breed kenneled in the back of his car, and he had his pack completely swarm the poor dog who was salivating like crazy and squealing the entire time. Seems to me that would be a pretty traumatic experience for the dog. Can't say it didn't get the job done though.

Your thoughts?
>> Anonymous
BAWW DA TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCES

dealing with traumatic experiences is important

you think wolves didn't have fucking traumatic experiences?

it's when you fucking shelther something with the instincts of a wild animal and try to keep it in a house and pamper it that it gets fucked up.
>> Anonymous
Well, I mean in a sense that it seemed like unnecessary stress was placed on the dog in that situation. It's not exactly normal for them to get along with every dog they meet on the street--that's a human imposed condition--so wouldn't it make more sense to use positive reinforcement to slowly condition them to being used to being around other dogs (i.e. nurture their pack instinct), rather than try to completely shut down the "wild" side that you refer to?
>> Anonymous
Im not being agressive, im being DOMINANT
>> Anonymous
According to the Internet, the consensus among real dog trainers is that he doesn't know what he's doing and uses techniques that can stress out the dog.

This is a bad thing not because we care about the dog's welfare but because it usually leads to even worse behavior issues later on.
>> Anonymous
>>319024

Yes, this.
>> Anonymous
He's a douche bag.

Not just because of his methods but...


I mean just look at the prick
>> Anonymous
He's very good at what he does and this country could use a swift kick in the ass.
>> That Gomez
>>319021
Tsst!
>> Anonymous
He's a true pack leader
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
>>319222
Awesome episode.
>> Anonymous
From what i have seen he works mostly with agressive dogs, and he gets great results.

Some of his methods seem to be "extreme" and i doubt he would try to use them when training a normal dog. He aint teaching them fetch, he is teaching them to stop going for the throat.
>> Anonymous
victoria stillwell

superior
>> Anonymous
From the way I see Americans pampering their dogs, treating them better than human children basically, I have no doubt he freaks them out.
>> Hilarious reviews. Anonymous
>>319301
Ugh, please don't base an entire country on fucking pictures you see of paris hilton.
>> Anonymous
>>319301
have you seen the show "it's me or the dog?" there are people everyplace that treat pets like kids.
>> Anonymous
>>319322
those are ukfags fyi
>> Anonymous
he rollerblades thus is a fag
>> Anonymous
>>319459
On a related note what are those things he wears? Funky ass roller blades.
>> From the 100% accurate and completely indisputable wikipedia article Anonymous
Criticism

There are professional trainers, behavior consultants and associations that believe Millan's methods are inhumane, referring to the use of alpha rolls, flooding, and constant leash corrections. According to them, these techniques can have serious behavioral consequences.

Dr. Nicholas Dodman, the director of the Animal Behavior Clinic at the Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine of Tufts University, has said "Cesar Millan's methods are based on flooding and punishment. The results, though immediate, will be only transitory. His methods are misguided, outmoded, in some cases dangerous, and often inhumane. You would not want to be a dog under his sphere of influence. The sad thing is that the public does not recognize the error of his ways." [3] In a February 23, 2006, New York Times article, Dr. Dodman says of Millan's show, "My college thinks it is a travesty. We've written to National Geographic Channel and told them they have put dog training back 20 years."[4][dead link]

Jean Donaldson, The San Francisco SPCA Director of The Academy for Dog Trainers states, "Practices such as physically confronting aggressive dogs and using of choke collars for fearful dogs are outrageous by even the most diluted dog training standards. A profession that has been making steady gains in its professionalism, technical sophistication and humane standards has been greatly set back. I have long been deeply troubled by the popularity of Mr. Millan as so many will emulate him. To co-opt a word like whispering for arcane, violent and technically unsound practice is unconscionable."[5]

On September 6, 2006, The American Humane Association issued a press release condemning Millan's tactics as "inhumane, outdated, and improper" and called on the National Geographic Channel to cease airing the program immediately.[6]
>> Anonymous
Its funny so many people pick at his way of training. But when it comes to other training, I wonder what the actual success rate is?

Also if you look at hard core dog owners, the ones with dog sledding teams, or hunting dogs, or farming dogs, have a look at some of the techniques they use.

Eg, Sledding dogs, when they get in a fight, the sledder beats the shit out of them to get them back inline (not all cases, but you get where I'm going)

Eg, a farmer has a litter of puppies. He kills them off one by one until the best one is left. Sort of like American Idol, but if you fail at herding sheep (despite never being taught) you end up dead.


Now, lets have a look at dogs and wolves in the wild. The dominant female will continually stress out lesser females so they either never have sex, or they have a miscarriage. If the subordinate females do have pups, they are killed off. Unless the Alpha female is in a good mood because there is plenty of food.

A good balance needs to be struck between knowing when to put your foot down and to discipline a dog, and when to reward it. Always trying to distract it from its bad behaviours only develops a clingyness to you, or obsessive compulsive behaviour.

Does anyone know a child that has been brought up correctly in a family where the parent are always nice trying to distract the child from their bad habits? Did that child end up a role model for society?

Its not about telling the dog off all the time, and its not about rewarding it all the time. A balance has to be made for each dog, and dealing with a problem rather than trying to distract around the problem will get the job done IMO
>> Anonymous
>>319011
he's brilliant, i'm convinved he shags all the women afterwards

"And now we will make with the love"
>> Anonymous
>>319011
it's the same with children, if they are pampered and allowed to turn into brats they will throw screaming fits all the time when they don't get their own way.

You have to ignore them, let them have their screaming fits until they realize they aren't going to get their own way. i'm sure it's very traumatic for the child but who gives a fuck
>> Anonymous
ITT: derranged people who take "animal loving" a bit too far
>> Anonymous
>>319573
Beating an animal is never a good way to discipline it, since it can lead to even worse behavior issues later on. A happy and healthy animal is a harder-working animal. Killing puppies that can be sold is a waste of time, money, and materials. It should also be noted that wild dogs kill each other all the time, but that this is not something you want to replicate in captivity because, first off, it's YOU that should be in charge, not one of the animals, and secondly, it is not conducive towards creating a useful animal.

As for the child analogy, that's like saying that the best way to raise a child is to lock them in the closet for a few days every time they do something bad. If your child is afraid of snakes you should lock him in a room with lots of snakes. If your child wets the bed, you should beat him until he stops.

What they're saying is that his methods are primitive and cruel and largely ineffective. They don't get to the heart of the matter. They are short-term solutions that treat the symptoms without addressing the cause. There are reports of some people on the show having to deal with much worse behavior problems after Cesar leaves, but of course they don't tell you that on the NG channel. They try to call in real trainers but the damage is already done. Also, there is the fact that it could be dangerous to try and replicate his methods on certain animals, especially large breeds with aggression issues.
>> Anonymous
may i ask, by what education you are claiming his methods are wrong or ineffective?

"i lerned from the internets!!!!"
>> Anonymous
>>319577
My mum did that to me once when I was a kid. I never threw a tantrum again
>> Anonymous
>>319580
>that's like saying that the best way to raise a child is to lock them in the closet for a few days every time they do something bad
it's the exact opposite of what they are saying. they are saying that when the kid does something destructive, you yell and maybe hit the kid. When the kid whines and complains you let them know that whining will never work by never EVER responding to it. These are the strategies that work.
please note that "locking them in a closet for a few days is a better analogy for the prison system...

and yeah, about locking the ophidiophobe in the room with snakes? It's one of the more effective methods, although you better believe that the kid will HATE you for LIFE. No wonder, you locked them in a room full of snakes...
>treat the symptoms without addressing the cause
if done incorrectly, absolutely. I doubt there is another way that works however
>> Anonymous
I'm not a professional dog trainer, but I have spent a lot time around dogs and doing basic training. This >>but this one time he had a dog-aggressive mixed breed kenneled in the back of his car, and he had his pack completely swarm the poor dog who was salivating like crazy and squealing the entire time
strikes me as absolutely the worst thing possible. Sure it'd subdue the animal for a while, but in the long term it's certainly going to make the dog add terror to aggression and you'll end up with a half-crazed fear biter. Eventually the dog will shake off the fear paralysis and switch to fear-aggression.

That said, I have used an alpha roll once on a dog that was constantly being disobedient and was no responding to usual training methods (bribing, stern voice, rolled newspaper etc), and aside from pinching its ear (simulating the nip that a mother dog used on a disobedient puppy) I did not hurt hurt it. I held it down until it whined in submission and it was much easier that the classic way of showing a dog who's boss ie, beating the crap out of it.
>> Anonymous
>>319588

yeah same here
srsly best method ever
>> Anonymous
Someone was talking about "it's me or the dog" that show is awesome. I want to fuck the host vigorously. Oh and you know that she is a dominatrix, just look at her.
>> Anonymous
He's the cure to today's pathetic ways of dealing with everything. Tolerance this, tolerance that. Most dog trainers would rather kill the dog, than put it through stress.
In fact, many of the dogs he rehabilitates, are dogs that were given up by other dog trainers, and were going to be put down.
Anyone who objects to his methods, deserve to be beaten into submission.
>> Anonymous
>>319628
and then he makes with the sweet sweet love
>> Anonymous
I have to agree with the "Its me or the dog" people. Victoria is superior.

With her, its not so much a matter of training the dogs, but rather, she focuses on training the owners, since most of the time, its their own damn fault the dog is badly behaved. Her solutions may seem like common sense (Excercise your damn dog, don't give them an obscene amount of affection, make sure they get altered, and be sure that YOU as the human run the household) but you'd be surprised at the amount of dumb fucks who don't seem to realize this.

Also, while I haven't seen the dog whisperer, I do know that Victoria checks back on the households a few weeks after she's done to make sure the owners keep up with training. Most of the time they do, but in some cases they don't, and she'll confiscate the dog for a few weeks to do some real training, as was the case with "Hattie the fattie".

TLDR = British chick superior
>> Anonymous
>>319649
I just remember the episode with that shitty little Daschund.
>> Anonymous
>>319649
You just described exactly what Cesar does, you stupid fuck.
>> Anonymous
I'm not a professional dog trainer, but I don't understand any of these "inhumane" complaints. He's never been shown hurting a dog; at the MOST I've seen him forcefully restrain some of the killer-attack cases, but that's it.

Whether or not you agree with his flooding techniques or whatever, he does illustrate a lot of good concepts, like understanding the dog is a dog, not a human, and the visible frustration he shows when people allow the dog to do anything it wants and then complain they don't understand why. Like the couple who couldn't sit on their couch because their great danes "wouldn't get off of it." You could practically see Ceasar having an aneurysm.
>> Anonymous
>>319649
Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what The Dog Whisperer is about.
>> Anonymous
>>319506
That link to the NY times article is dead. And when looking around a bit for Dr. Nicholas Dodman i came across this article: http://www.thebark.com/ezine/living_behavior/behavior.html

Several of the things and examples he uses are done identicly by Cesar, like the most important thing is to provide leadership. That basic steps to take when imprinting leadership is making the dog sit and wait before eating.

As for the quote by Jean Donaldson she describes things i have never seen in his programs such as shock collars and repeated strangling in order to subdue the dog. Maybe i have never seen those shows, or maybe she spots things i cant see... Or maybe she is just wrong.
>> Anonymous
I don't get the point of going through all the trouble that the dog whispering dude does when slapping them on the head with a newspaper when they do something wrong is equally effective.
>> Anonymous
>>319649
Truth
>> Anonymous
Ceaser does the whole be the leader, don't get angry remain calm, give the dog exercise and respond to bad behavior accordingly given the level of problems, like a dog who grabs a toy is not going the get the back roll only dogs who have attacked someone. That is very reasonable and there is no chocking involved its a mild tug to the side. As for some of the dogs not responding to the treatment, of course, use your fucking common sense, no fucking technique has a 100% success rate, of course sometimes it fails! Also don't be such pussies dogs don't think like us, assuming that they will develop the same kind of psychological problems we do is moronic. Lastly he is not a dog trainer, he deals with dogs who usually have aggression issues and other untypical problems.
>> Anonymous
>>319654

Truth
>> Anonymous
>>319311

This is 4chan.

wtf are you expecting!?
>> Anonymous
I'm expecting Rule 34 to be applied to Cesar's ass

And maybe some dog sexing.

Thats what I'm expecting from 4chan right now.
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
Would you /an/ ?