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Anonymous
I just bought two Ball Pythons last week, /an/. It was a great deal. $180 for two snakes (m & f), a tank, a light, day and night bulbs, a bowl, and wood.

Anyway, the female is about a year and a half old and I'm not sure about the male. I know he's not fully grown, but I think he's older than the female.

What are the chances of them mating and how can I go about getting them to?
Also, what is your opinion on feeding them frozen mice. Is it better to feed them live food or will frozen work?

Thanks
>> Anonymous
Live food is prone to being diseased, the animal attacking the snake, or something else. You can ease a snake into eating frozen mice, I don't know the specifics on it though.
>> Anonymous
There are pros and cons to live/frozen food:

Live food:

-Snakes generally love it, and one could argue that it's "more natural".
-No risk of improper thawing and no thawing hassles
-Live prey might injure the snake

Frozen:

-typically less expensive, and certainly easier to keep on hand (bulk in your freezer).
-thawing can be a pain, and you must do it carefully. Frozen rodents must be completely thawed all the way through. Don't use a microwave as it can cause harmful hot spots.
-some (but not all) snakes are finicky and won't touch pre-killed prey
>> Anonymous
I heard of snakes eating chicken wings. I'm not really sure about trying that method though, it just seems weird.
>> Demyx's Landmaster !!LRYbbMT7F9I
I always give my snakes live food. Tried frozen and they ignored it every time. My Burmese even looked at me like "Excuse me WTF are you doing?" the one time I tried frozen food with her.

Watching the snake hunt down its food is also fun.
>> Anonymous
To be honest, I was kind of worried about the fact that they could get hurt with the live food, but I guess that's a chance they would take in the wild...

Also, would it be a better idea for me to feed them separate or could I just drop two mice in their and let them be?
>> Anonymous
>>there
fix'd.
>> Anonymous
>hah ok here

http://www.outwar.com/rec/mystikal

>try to sign up
>> Anonymous
>>255551
yeah but you can manipulate pre killed to make it look like it's alive
>> Anonymous
Anon has been very helpful, but any thoughts on breeding?
>> Anonymous
I had a Ball Python, fed it live food. One mouse took a chunk out of mah buddy though. I "rough up" the mice a bit before throwing them into my snakes tank now though. And I make sure to watch just in case the rodent gets any funny ideas.
>> Anonymous
I am curious about something, i have considered getting snakes, is there any snake that does not eat live meat? I dont know, egg eating snakes? I wouldnt feel comfortable throwing a creature into a slow, painfull death.
>> Anonymous
>>255572
just stick with pre-killed.
and just 'dropping them in' is a sure way for the snakes to get hurt.

also why the fuck do you want to breed them?
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
i give my 2 snakes frozen rats... i thaw them in hot water(not boiled just hot) and i feed them separate in a box w/ tongs..... they like the frozen food
>> Anonymous
Feeding live can increase aggression in the animal. I prefer to feed frozen.
>> Demyx's Landmaster !!LRYbbMT7F9I
>>255610
you have to train snakes to eat pre-killed food, no snake is a scavenger in the wild. I'm not sure if you can legally own egg-eating snakes.
>> Anonymous
>>255618
you don't always have to train them. mine were from a breeder and were eating pre-killed from the day they were born.

also ball pythons can be EXTREMELY picky eaters and not eat for months, live or killed. so if they don't eat for awhile, its actually pretty normal.
>> Anonymous
>Feeding live can increase aggression in the animal.
I hadn't even thought of that. That's a good point.

How do you go about "training" a snake to eat pre-killed?
>> Anonymous
>>255612
also why the fuck do you want to breed them?

Because I fucking want to asshole. If you have a problem with it, explain it to me without being a dick.
>> Anonymous
>hah ok here
http://www.outwar.com/rec/mystikal
>try to sign up
>> Anonymous
if your scared about the rodent hurting the snake ive heard that some people grab it by the tail and smack it against the side of the tank/box your using for feeding
>> Anonymous
>>255668
You haven't even properly researched them yet and you want to breed them.

Good going, dumbass.
>> Anonymous
>>255675
that sounds kind of harsh. If they'll take to it, I might just try frozen.

>>255679
I never said I was going to breed them. I just want to find out as much as I possibly can now so if I want to later I'll know what I'm doing, asshole.
>> Anonymous
>>255680

Please try frozen first!

As a snake AND rat owner, it's always better for both if the animal is pre-killed. I don't know what kind of person could smash a rat up against a desk to bash its teeth out.

But yeah, if it refuses to eat, try a pair of tongs! I've been raised around snakes, and a snake WILL learn to eat frozen if it's hungry enough. It won't die.
>> Anonymous
>>255697

You don't have to bash it's teeth out. You just smack it so it's dazed, and thus the snake can grab it with less resistance.

Pre-killed is safer for the snake, just make sure you thaw the mouse/rat properly. If the inside of the rodent is still frozen it can kill your snake. Likewise if you try and take a shortcut and thaw in a microwave and end up with an overly hot part inside, that can hurt the snake too.

The best way to thaw frozen rodents is simply to put them in a cup or bowl containing warm (but not hot) water and let them sit until they are soft and warm to the touch, all the way through. You can also use chicken stock to thaw with if your snake is a picky eater. The scent of the stock can help them to eat even if they normally don't care for live prey.
>> Anonymous
>OP here sign up http://www.outwar.com/rec/mystikal its good shit
>> Anonymous
This thread is disgusto.
>> Anonymous
>>255572
>>but I guess that's a chance they would take in the wild...

This is where the reasoning for feeding live gets faulty. I know there are good arguments in this thread already, but I feel like this is one I need to address.

A snake eating in a terrarium is nothing like a snake hunting in the wild. Their prey would never even know they were there or they'd be running. In an enclosed tank, the prey knows the snake is there and that introduces the risk of it fighting back. Even the most docile animal can turn into a monster when it's cornered.

For your snakes in particular, did you ask what they were eating before you got them, and when the last time they ate was?
>> Anonymous
I would get the mice high as hell so they wouldn't bite, also I wouldn't give anything under 2-3 years old live mice.

They need to be big enough to completely engulf the mouse so it doesn't have a chance to get good bites in.

Never leave it alone with live stuff either.

I am not feeding my snake anything live, probably for another 2-3 years down the road.

Once you go live you can't go back to frozen, and keeping live mice might be a good idea but it is costly.

As for Breeding, I wouldn't even think about that right now if you just got the damned things, you should read more about it before jumping into breeding.
>> Anonymous
1. seperate the snakes. they do not need to live together
2. female must be 3 years and bare minimum 1300 grams in weight.
3. http://www.ballpython.ca/gallery/breeding.html

also, try researching pets before you buy them, especially exotics.

no danger in feeding live if you do it right. this means putting mouse/rat in and watching and waiting for the snake to attack and kill. keep a pair of tongs near so that if the bite goes wrong you can keep the mouse/rat from biting the snake back. 8ballpythons.com talks about feeding his several hundred ball pythongs live every week and never having a snake being injured or killed.
or feed frozen. it really doesnt matter. feed what your snake will eat. some will eat live only, some frozen only.
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
Frozen pre-killed mice are safer not only because they won't bite the snake but also because freezing kills any parasites the mice might be carrying. If your snake is captive-bred it will almost certainly accept pre-killedm properly thawed food when it's hungry because most, reputable ones especially, breeders don't feed live food and would consider you an idiot for doing so. Just make sure it's warm.

>>255737
>I would get the mice high as hell so they wouldn't bite, also I wouldn't give anything under 2-3 years old live mice.

Idiot.
>> Anonymous
>>255758
HAHAHA no, actually most breeders feed live. NERD, 8ballpythons, Ralph Davis, etc etc. they all feed live unless the snake wont take a live prey. all the rats and mice they breed themselves and are parasite free.

The live vs frozen is a non issue really, they are both just as equally safe if done properly. PROPERLY
>> Anonymous
This post is a bit off topic and I apologize to whoever started the thread, but I noticed someone's snake on their keyboard, is it possible for snakes to be kind of caring/protective for their owners? Or do they just not care about anyone?
>> Anonymous
>>255771
they are pretty indifferent to their owners. now, i have read threads where people will point out say, if they have their snake and someone new, the snake will choose the owner to 'crawl' to over the other person when placed between them. but they wont come to you unless you are the most available heat source etc..
>> Anonymous
>>255770

Except one's far more cruel than the other.

Fuck snake owners.

Heartless freaks. "MY SNAKE IS SOOOO PRETTY I DON'T CARE IF IT'D TAKE MY HAND OFF IF IT WAS HUNGRY ENOUGH AND BITES ME IF MY HAND'S IN THE WAY! I DON'T CARE IF IT DOESN'T LOVE ME WHATSOEVER...I LIKE WATCHING IT SLITHER AROUND! OH OH AND LEMME TAKE PICS OF IT EATING A RAT BECAUSE I'M SO AMAZINGLY CREATIVE. DESPITE THE FACT THAT RATS ARE FAR SUPERIOR PETS, I'LL BE THE TYPICAL DOUCHEBAG SNAKE DUDE INSTEAD AND GET A PYTHON OR CORN SNAKE BECAUSE I'M SUCH A REBEL! AWESOME!"
>> Anonymous
>>255787


How is that exactly? I mean, either the mouse dies when the snake kills it, or the mouse was killed before (or perhaps WHILE) it was frozen.

In both cases you start with a live mouse and end up with a dead one in the snake's belly.

And don't give us that bullshit about "pet love". People own pets becasue they enjoy the animal's presence. It doesn't matter if it is a cat, dog, rat, snake, or anything else. Who cares if you prefer a dogs (or whatever) while OP likes snakes?
>> Anonymous
>>255790

There's a biggg difference, my friend.

If you had a child (I'm not a freak that thinks animals are equal, because LORD they're not even close, but go with me here), would you have preferred if they died slowly or quickly? Snake owners bash a mouse against a table until its front teeth shatter, which is amazing agony in itself, and then drop it in a snake cage so it can be bitten and then suffocated and sometimes eaten alive.

And if only that were true. Most owners own snakes/spiders/scorpions/stuff like that because it's more of a fashion statement and they think their cocks get bigger by owning it.
>> ­
>>255792

I like to boast about my snakes and arachnids by not telling anyone unless they ask.

Not every one of us is a douchebag. I keep my stuff because I enjoy watching them grow up, go through their behaviors, and interact with me on occasion. I couldn't care less what other people think of me, because more often than not, no one hears me bragging about owning a snake or something.

There are douchebags in every hobby. Ball Pythons, Cornsnake, and Rosehair Tarantula owners tend to be douches, but that's just because they're so damn common and cheap now.
>> Anonymous
>SAGE!

>OP here
http://www.outwar.com/rec/mystikal
its good shit
>> Anonymous
>>255792
>owners bash a mouse against a table until its front teeth shatter, which is amazing agony in itself, and then drop it in a snake cage so it can be bitten and then suffocated and sometimes eaten alive.

Most snake owners drop live prey in without bashing it over a table (because potentially killing it would defeat the fucking purpose) or, in the case of pre-killed, use a CO2 chamber or snap the neck with a pencil.
>> Anonymous
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I was going to reply to
>>255792
but I think
>>255797
already said it all. I don't have my snakes as a fashion statement and I don't have a cock. I do have a rooster though.

I love animals. I have dogs, cats, rats, chickens and snakes. I love them all and play with them all.
And I would NEVER beat a mouse against the side of the tank or desk. EVER.

Too fucking cruel.
>> Anonymous
>>255797
>>255800
>>255802

I like you guys.

I own garter and corn snakes, and while I totally understand the plight of the mouse/rat owner, I think we're misunderstood. We're not cruel bastards that enjoy watching the animals get eaten. (Well...there ARE some morons that do, immature teenagers mostly) It's fascinating to watch sometimes, but it also makes me feel very sad for the animal. Credible snake owners kill as painlessly as we can ourselves and don't drop live prey in IF the snake is willing to accept dead mice/rats.

I personally use CO2 to knock out my mice, and drop it in the tank while they're wobbling around and numb. Snake sees it moving, goes right for it, mouse doesn't even squeak or act like it's feeling pain.

tl;dr Snake owners aren't all dicks, and kill humanely.
>> Anonymous
hey, a snake thread!

i've been doing my googlin' on ball pythons, and i'm planning to get one in the near future.. the only problem is that i can't find a breeder in my area. i'd rather not get one from petco as they were covered in mites there, so does anyone know how to find a breeder? i couldn't really find a good listing of them online..
>> Anonymous
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>>255572
well if you worried about the mouse bitting the snake then take the mouse and hit it in the head with a blunt instrument not hard enough to kill it but just enough to stun it then drop the mouse to you snake that how i feed my boa and shes never been bitten once also i use a baton like club to do the deed i know it sounds cruel but if you wack them good they wont fell a thing
>> Anonymous
>>255792

1) You are grossly exaggerating. "Most" snake owners do not bash rodent's teeth in. Perhaps someone sickos out there do, but it is far from the norm. Even if you did want to "incapacitate" a live mouse it would be a complete waste of time to bother with the teeth when there are many simpler, faster options.

2) You seem to belive that pre-killed rodents are killed in some sort of magical fantasy land in which they feel no pain. Well, I'll give you a tip: Rodents are not killed by an opiate overdose. They don't die in a moment of bliss. If they're lucky it's the gas chamber, or if they're unlucky they get thrown in a freezer. Guess which is cheaper? Electrocution is an option too. And if the frozens are imported, well, that's a whole new ballgame.
>> Anonymous
Another question, I'm sure this makes me sound like a total moron, but how will I be able to tell if a frozen mouse is totally thawed?
(I don't do much cooking with meat in my house...lulz)
>> Anonymous
>>255787
sorry if i prefer the snake to the mouse, clearly enjoying a reptile to a mammal makes me EVIL CAUSE SNAKES ARE EVILLLLL
>> Anonymous !EkPIibv7ls
>>255842

Stick it in a ziplock bag, fill up a bowl with hot water, let it thaw for an hour, come back, and feel around the head. If it's still cold, let it thaw some more.

That's what's always worked for me.
>> Anonymous
>>255886
Well, I didn't put it in a bag, but it's in a disposable bowl. Does the bag make much of a difference?
>> Anonymous
i only feed my 2 year old ball python live mice, he has an amazing feeding response and chomps/constricts those little things so hard they dont know what hit em, never had an injury to my snake, and the snake has never reacted agressively during handling.
>> Anonymous
you also have to understand that some snakes -will not- eat frozen thawed. some wont eat live. yes, snakes do get picky, and when you love 'em fuck you'll do what ever it takes to make sure they'll eat.

i remember reading about someone who's snake would only take prekilled in a brown paper bag.

that's right.

>>255898
people that think feeding live is going to make a snake aggressive make me laugh/rage just as much as idiots who know shit about feeding claim one side or the other without knowledge or experience ;3
>> Anonymous
The real problem with feeding live isn't that the snake might become aggressive (not likely), but that the FOOD will become agressive.
If you feed a live mouse to a snake when the snake isn't hungry, then you will risk the mouse becoming afraid of the snake and fighting back. Weak as they look, mice can actually do some damage with teeth and claws, which wouldn't be good for your snake.

As far as thawing goes, I would recommend heating water in the microwave until fairly hot, and then tossing the frozen pinkies into the water. Check them about 20 minutes later to make sure they're soft, then separate the snakes and feed.
>> Anonymous
I use to be a ball python owner and my snake has never been attacked by it's prey. I've actually seen the gerbil (my snake didn't eat rats or mice frozen or live) become friends with my snake.

Story INC: I put the gerbil in the cage, it sniffed around and explored the cage until it found my snake's hiding place (shoe box). The gerbil went inside, jumped because my snake probably scared the shit out of it, and my snake didn't do anything so I guess the gerbil figured it wasn't a threat and they lived together for a couple days until my snake finally got hungry and ate him >:). Looking back I should of taken the gerbil out and tried again some other time but I was 16 or something and didn't know any better and didn't have anywhere to keep the gerbil or anything to keep it alive.
>> Anonymous
>>255824
club guy here if you still afraid to feed you snakes live prey just bash in the rodents skull
>> Anonymous
>>256363
No need to go that far.

Fill a sink or tub with water and force the rodent swim in it for a few minutes, which will wear it down significantly. There's still the adrenaline prey response but that'll be minimized.
>> Anonymous
My friend fed a live mouse to his snake. I think it was used to frozen, or something, because the mouse chewed the snake to death. It was a pretty bad-ass mouse, so he kept it.
>> Anonymous
Agree with guy from previous post; bash the mouse skull (mouse is dead + its warm) and if he's not eating it you can put it in the freezer. (So no waste of mice). It's not the most animal-friendly way; but the heck, if you keep snakes you don't give a fuck about mice
>> Anonymous
Or, if you're not a fucking retard, instead of bashing the head and hoping to kill it and potentilly making a bloody mess in the process you could just snap the neck. Lay the mouse on a solid surface, take a pen, a strong pencil, or similarly sized thin object , press it down firmly just under the base of the skull (or just grip there with your thumb and index fingers), and give it a quick yank by the tail.
>> Anonymous
I've bashed hundreds of mice without bloodshed or even a kick; fastest way to kill one
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
>>255546
when you get in the routine of doing it you knock them out cold evertime i mean hell its the same method they use in cattle killing
>> Anonymous
snakes rely on heat sensing to determine food, if you warm up pre killed prey and manipulate it using a stick or tongs, the snake will still go for it, i temped at a zoo and the lead herpatologist did this even for our komodo dragon he just had to warm up the pre killed food and move it around like it was alive and the animals went for it.Snakes arent the brightest tools in the shed, instinct to feed overcomes instinct to hunt
>> Anonymous
>>256493
>did this even for our komodo dragon he just had to warm up the pre killed food and move it around like it was alive and the animals went for it

Not a great example as varanids in the wild scavenge about as much as they hunt and typically don't give a fuck if something is moving or warm so long as it isn't rotten. He could have dropped chicken breasts or catfood in their enclosure and they would have eaten it, which is much different than with snakes.
>> Anonymous
>>255546
hey a mice is a mice if your afraid to kill one dont own a snake
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
For the OP, as someone stated pythons can sometimes refuse to eat for a long time when you change their surroundings. They can live for months and months without a meal, so if they refuse for a while I wouldnt worry about it too much. If it goes on for more than maybe 3 months,i'd take them back to where i got them (assuming theyre experts) and get them, or SOMEONE who knows how to force feed them. As for feeding them live,as someone mentioned live mice can have parasites, and can fight back. And its more expensive, and cruel. Only feed live if the snake refuses pre killed.
As for the jerkoffs saying snake owners are cruel, you morons shouldnt talk about something you have no clue about. A penis extension? You ever think maybe a snake is a good pet for someone who doesnt have a lot of time to spend with a dog or a cat? Or maybe I have a snake because I cant stand animals like dogs, that come and stare at me every time i try to eat? Or maybe some people just have their own opinions and things they like, and the whole world doesnt conform to what you think is right, jerkoff.

Also as far as feeding live, if you ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO, which is to say the snakes refuse pre killed, dont bash the poor little bastards head on a desk! Take it, and put it in a grocery bag, and swing it around your head for a minute so its too dizzy to move around or know whats going on, and THEN give it to the snake. Breaking its teeth is just cruel.

Pic related, its my precious.
>> Anonymous
Sometimes live mice can scratch the snake and cause infections and shit, I feed mine frozen (defrosted first though) and keep the mouse in a warm room just before I feed it to the snake
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
god i swear some of you guys are babys for last time BASH THE MOUSES FUCKING HEAD IN if you get one good solid blow it will kill them ever time or it will knock them silly
>> Jesus Anonymous
I fed my Ball Python live mice, and then rats once it got bigger for its entire life. Had a rat bite it once or twice no big deal. If you want to leave a snake in a cage and feed it dead animals and think thats fair then go for it. Personally I find it rather boring for me and the snake. Anyways what ever you choose good luck, the Ball Python i found was a good pet snake, large but not to big.
>> Anonymous
>>255812
best advice I can give is to go to a local reptile shop and ask around there.
>> Anonymous
>Stupid niggers
http://tinyurl.com/44t3az