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Anonymous
Nature includes the origine of the HIV virus... right? Read this and be enlightened about the true orgin of HIV...

There have long been allegations that HIV contains fragments of other
retroviruses, or appears to be a splicing of other viruses. Different
theories have proposed that it contains segments of HTLV (a leukemia
retrovirus, the first human retrovirus that was discovered by Robert
Gallo), or BIV (bovine leukemia virus), or visna (a sheep retrovirus).
Only a few things seem clear. All of these viruses have significant
similarities. SIV is genetically closer to HIV, than are these other
viruses. These facts do not answer all the questions as to the
ancestry of the viruses, or whether they are natural, or not.There has
been at least one study to suggest that SIV appears to be descended
from HIV, rather than vice-versa. It is possible that both are
relatively recent descendents of a common ancestor.
Phylogenetic trees can show which subgroups of viruses bear the most
Comment too long. Clickhereto view the full text.
>> Anonymous
The large number of viruses would seem to suggest that they are very
old. However, this theory raises some puzzles. For instance, why were
they not noticed earlier? Visna is among the oldest- the first known
outbreak was around 1930, in Iceland . The virus was first identified
in 1949. Visna was not something that would likely go unnoticed. The
outbreak in Iceland was obvious and explosive.
Similarly, SIV is now widespread among primates, and is present in
most species of monkeys.Monkeys and chimps from all over the world
were used were used extensively for research, in the decades preceding
AIDS. Viruses similar to HIV, such as FELV and visna, were well-known,
and their structure was identified in detail (see reference to
follow). There had been extensive attempts to identify and catalogue
animal viruses. Why would the viruses not have been discovered
earlier?
These are not viruses that stayed confined in "remote villages".
Somehow, we have to explain viruses that jumped species and jumped
oceans and continents, from Iceland to Australia to Africa to Europe
and the U.S. , yet were little noticed.There are such things as wild
cattle and sheep, but most are domesticated. This would lead you to
imagine that explosive and deadly new viral epidemics would not go
unnoticed. These viruses sometimes are not fatal, but often are. It is
not simply a matter that they were harmless variations of viruses. We
would have to explain why viruses that were supposed "harmless" in
most species, suddenly turned malignant in multiple species, at the
same time.
>> Anonymous
Presumably, all of the lentiviruses trace back to a common ancestor-
one of the more interesting questions. The phylogenetic trees are
today drawn without any identifiable root.We go to great lengths to
imagine how humans may have picked up a monkey virus, by tribes
drinking monkey blood,etc. It is even more interesting to imagine the
link that spread a virus between say, cattle and monkeys.
It conjures slightly humorous images of Farmer Brown inviting his
brother, Jungle Jim, out to the farm, where his pet monkey, Bonzo, got
into a fight with Bessie the cow. Blood was everywhere. It must have
been awful.After all, we are talking about viruses that do not spread
by casual contact,even if the animals had casual contact,which they do
not. They are not predators of each other, they do not have sex with
each other.
You might imagine some common vector such as insects, but we have been
assured that insects cannot transfer HIV, and are not likely to do so
in the future, even if HIV were to mutate significantly.You might
suppose that humans are the most common link among all the animals,
but we supposedly got our virus variant as the last in line.
Another interesting observation is that most of the mammal lentviruses
are spread by milk, sometimes, spread primarily by milk. Humans,
consumers of goat's milk, sheep's milk, cow's milk, sometimes
unpasteurized, have presumably been exposed to other animal
lentiviruses many times. If the viruses are truly ancient, it is
rather odd that we never became infected with deadly disease, until
very recently.
>> Anonymous
Certainly, it is conceivable that all of these animal retroviruses are
relatively recent, just like the epidemic of HIV. HIV has a phenomenal
mutation rate, and has infected tens of millions of humans in the span
of a few decades. There multiple strains of HIV in humans, already.
Perhaps, among other mammals, it is just more of the same story.
To try to sort out this mess, I tried to focus on what seemed like the
first known lentivirus, visna.I've been told visna itself may have had
origins in German biological war research/testing, but I have no
information on this, yet. I've also been told that EIAV may be older,
but again, I am still looking into this.It was clear however, that the
initial visna outbreak waswould have been well known, and of interest,
to anyone doing biological war research, any time after 1930.
One cannot exactly search for what secret research might have been
done with visna. Next best is to try to find out how much was known in
the public arena, and when, and what kind of published experiments
were done with visna. This effort, in itself, was very revealing and
unsettling.
>> Anonymous
It certainly lends credence to the notion that visna could have been
manipulated with destructive results.For the rest of this essay, I
refer to studies that are listed in the "PUBMED" database.
First, it is clear that there was *extensive* interest and research
involving visna, before the AIDS epidemic. I found dozens of published
experiments, looking just at a limited time frame in the 60's and
70's. No doubt, the total experiments numbered at least in the
hundreds- a great deal of interest, for a infection that was rare
among sheep, and had already been eradicated in Iceland .
Second, it is clear that the detailed structure of visna was well
known, well before the AIDS epidemic. In order to realize this, you
don't need even to look at the abstract: the convenient title alone
makes the point:
Harter DH./The detailed structure of visna-maedi virus. Front Biol.
1976;44:45-60. No abstract available.
Pautrat G, et al. [Study of the structure of Visna virus by electron
microscopy]. /C R Acad Sci Hebd Seances Acad Sci D. 1971 Aug
9;273(6):653-5. PMID: 5001143; UI: 72047938.
>> Anonymous
Visna is quite similar to HIV. If its structure was known in detail,
then why was it such a painful and prolonged effort to identify HIV?
Third, it is clear that researchers were attempting to infect human
cells with visna, well before AIDS broke out. It could be argued that
any such experiment of this type carries a degree of irresponsibility.
Any time that you expose a virus to a new host, there is a danger that
the virus will adapt to that host, and create a new strain of virus.
Macintyre EH, et al./ A modification in the response of human
astrocytes to visna virus. Am J Vet Res. 1974 Sep;35(9):1161-3. PMID:
4370842; UI: 75021753.
Macintyre EH, et al./ Visna virus infection of sheep and human cells
in vitro--an ultrastructural study. J Cell Sci. 1973 Jul;13(1):173-91.
No abstract available. PMID: 4354152; UI: 73250349.
MacIntyre EH, et al./ Morphological transformation of human astrocytes
by visna virus with complete virus production. Nature New Biol. 1972
May 24; 237(73):111-3. PMID: 4503847; UI: 72204414.
Macintyre EH, et al./ The establishment of a line of visna
virus-producing human astrocytes (V-1181N1). Med Res Eng.
1972;11(4):7-13. PMID: 4370460; UI: 75016059.
Macintyre EH, et al/. Prolonged culture of Visna virus in human
astrocytes. Beitr Pathol. 1974 Jul;152(2):163-78. No abstract
available. PMID: 4369072; UI: 74306244. (The human "astrocytes" refer
to cells in human nerve tissue.)
>> Anonymous
Sharma DN, et al/ Jaagziekte & maedi of sheep & goats transmitted in
laboratory animals. Indian J Exp Biol. 1974 Jan;12(1):95-6. No
abstract available. PMID: 4372169; UI: 75040295.
Haase AT, et al./ A comparison of the high molecular weight RNAs of
visna virus and Rous sarcoma virus. Virology. 1974 Jan;57(1):259-70.
No abstract available. PMID: 4362024; UI: 74130620.
Haase AT, et al/ Characterization of the nucleic acid product of the
visna virus RNA dependent DNA polymerase. Virology. 1974
Jan;57(1):251-8. No abstract available. PMID: 4131957; UI: 74130619.
Boothe AD, et al/. Ultrastructural studies of a visna-like
syncytia-producing virus from cattle with lymphocytosis. J Virol. 1974
Jan;13(1):197-204. No abstract available. PMID: 4129840; UI: 74086415.
Haase AT, et al./ Demonstration of a DNA provirus in the lytic growth
of visna virus. Nature New Biol. 1973 Oct 24;245(147):237-9. No
abstract available. PMID: 4127186; UI: 74023815.


Why are so many viruses crossing species, and creating deadly new
epidemics in modern times? I encourage you to read the titles and
abstracts of a great many experiments such as the above. You will not
need a pHD in microbiology in order to gain a quite valid epiphany on
the subject.
>> Anonymous
The information about HIV and its links to Visna are rather
enlightening. I am sure that you, like I was unaware that in 1969 at
a House Appropriations hearing, the Defense Department's Biological
Warfare (BW) division requested funds to develop through gene-splicing
a new disease that would both resist and break down a victim's immune
system. "Within the next 5 to 10 years it would probably be possible
to make a new infective micro-organism which could differ in certain
important respects from any known disease-causing organisms. Most
important of these is that it might be refractory to the immunological
and therapeutic processes upon which we depend to maintain our
relative freedom from infectious diseases." The funds were approved.
AIDS appeared within the requested time frame, and has the exact
characteristics specified. And why did it take so long to identify
the virus if its super structure was already known? It's no small
suprize that the discovery of the AIDS virus (HTLV3) was announced by
Dr. Robert Gallo at the National Cancer Institute, which is on the
grounds of Fort Detrick , Maryland , a primary U.S. Army biological
warfare research facility. Another disturbing fact is that the 1970's
the incidence of AIDS infections in Africa coincides exactly with the
locations of the W.H.O. smallpox vaccination program in the mid-1970's
(London Times, May 11, 1987). Some 14,000 Haitians then on UN
secondment to Central Africa were also vaccinated in this campaign.
Remember that little tid bit of vacinations using monkey kidney tissue
in their preparation... Maybe its just a coincidence.
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
tl;dr
>> Anonymous
T L D FUCKING R
>> Anonymous
tl;dr - whats this mean?
>> H
So what? All of this is conjecture and speculation.
>> Anonymous
>>90830
you right - but did you read it all?
>> Anonymous
>>90830
does it make you ponder the possibility?
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
I always know the government was a little shady on finding that virus - it seemed like it took too long... thanks for the info!!!
>> H
>>90834
Yes, I realise the implications.

>>90835
It does, somewhat. I personally wouldn't be surprised if this were the case, not even slightly. But what difference does it make? In the end, AIDs is there, regardless of whether it was developed intentionally or not. Life will continue.
>> Anonymous
Well the human population is well over what it should be. Probably by 100x or more. I can only say that if they created AIDS as a way to reduce the population they failed horribly.
>> Anonymous
What about feline aids? What if it jumped species? Internet nerds everywhere would die in droves.
>> Anonymous
AIDs thread? In MY /an/?