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Anonymous
Do you think that the only dogs that should be allowed to breed are purebred champion show dogs?
>> Anonymous
Genetic variety = better.
>> Anonymous
bumping for opinions
>> Anonymous
Fuck no.

Mutts rock.
>> Anonymous
No. Nature has built pretty wonderful dogs and that's evident in a lot of pure breed dogs which we've taken over.

It's hard for me to get into this because I'd get into a rant about how it's both good and bad... there are definite advantages and disadvantages.

I do agree with genetic engineering to try and create genetically superior organisms, but I don't think there should be any bias against mutts. Any. At all.

That's just on a ethical and moral basis.

Financially? Hell no, it'd be too expensive. How many dogs are champion show dog levels? Dogs are way too expensive even now, at least for my taste.

If you take into consideration the Ashera and Toyger (Which happen to be my two favorite designer animals) then I have to say no simply because of the ability to breed strong, healthy, and extremely interesting animals.

Oh, and like>>211512said. Genetic variety is great if not just for survival.
>> Anonymous
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>> Anonymous
ridiculous idea.
>> Anonymous
My long rant in severl posts...

The "animal person" in me wants to say yes, but honestly, logically, I have to say NO. No, simply because there's so much hypocrisy when it comes to the "ethics" of breeding purebred dogs.

Let's start with the bow-wow buddah, the AKC. Despite all the "only support good breeders" hype, in 2006 the AKC attempted to contract with Petland to register all the milled pups that the chain sells (they pulled out after a flood of protest). Also, while truly ethical breeders are only supposed to breed about 1 litter a year, AKC will register as many litters as a breeder wants without question.

Inbreeding is inbreeding. If your top priority is to promote the best health and welfare of dogs, you must accept that having purebreds in the first place (and thus higher rates of genetic diseases) is detrimental to the general welfare of Canis lupus familiaris. “Responsible” breeders test their stock, screen for disease, and try their best to breed it out of their animals, but as long as they limit gene pools they also limit their ability to minimize genetic disease.
>> Anonymous
“Responsible” breeders will refund you for buying a pup that develops hip dysplasia, but they’ve still produced an animal that’s going be experiencing a lot of pain for a long time. This pup’s champion parents will always carry these genes and always pass them on to a few offspring. Even if hip displasia were to be wiped out of a breed, other genetic diseases would surly emerge as the gene pool continues to be refined. We’re always disgusted when think about inbreeding in people, yet we largely ignore the same detrimental effects that inbreeding has on our dogs (or we try to justify it).

The show ring brings out the worst aspects of breed purity. How many people have we seen recently complaining about German Shepherds with ultra-sloped backs? It’s already well known that these animals experience higher rates of hip and elbow dysplasia and decreased ability to perform the tasks the first GSDs were created to do. And don’t get me started on Uno... Breeding for working ability is the only justification I can see for having purebreds, but the Westminster bigshots have shown us that a dog’s ability to work has 0 impact on whether or not it’s “best of breed”.
>> Anonymous
The biggest issue I have with society’s love of breeds is the negative impact this has on the welfare of mixed breeds. Because of the monetary value and social stigmas (positive and negative) we assign to each breed, mixes are generally “worth” less and are treated as such. 5-9 million unwanted dogs (and cats) are killed in shelters each year. The vast majority of these animals (roughly 75%) of these are mixes. Whereas most mutts that enter shelters face a grim outlook, most purebreds are taken away via breed rescues or readily adopted by people who realize they’re getting an otherwise expensive dog for cheap. Households are also more likely to take free purebreds on a whim, as well as to surrender mixes when minor problems arise.

....could rant some more, but I’m getting lazy.... [tl;dr = the AKC is run by greedy assholes and purebreds are given way too much value over lovable mutts]
>> Anonymous
>>211877
>>211879
I bought my dog from Pet Land... what are the chances of me getting a "bad" purebreed dog?

I'm hoping to get a pretty "good" dog and it cost me $1600 which I'm sure is very overpriced, but...

I was promised all the paper work for all genetic screening, breed history (lineage papers and everything), and so on.

What I'm most worried about is the poor dog having been in a cage and developing the habit of spinning around a lot everywhere it goes.
>> Anonymous
>>211883

100% chance of a bad purebred.

If you aren't put on a waiting list for a year, it's probably a bad purebred.
>> Anonymous
>>211893
I really doubt it's 100%.

I've been on the waiting list for a little bit over a month. There is a chance that they just have a breeder who had a large litter or was unable to find owners for all the dogs.

I don't care so much about it being a pure breed though. I just want it to be disease free, meet all AKC standards, and... that's really it.

Is that farfetched?
>> Anonymous
Shit, now I'm looking up their breeder and I'm getting really worried.

Did I make a huge mistake in buying a dog from Petland? I still have a pretty good chance of getting a great dog, right?

Like I said, I'm getting the paperwork for genetic defects and getting lineage papers.

Are they just going to get a Husky from their puppy mills or might they actually look for a good breeder?
>> Anonymous
yes.
>> Anonymous
>>211915
Yes to which part?
>> Anonymous
THe premise of this thread is retarded.
>> Anonymous
>>211913

If it comes from Pet Land, it comes from a puppy mill. No responsible breeder would sell through a third party.

Your paperwork doesn't mean anything. Kennel club paperwork just says who the parents were, not their temperament, health, or overall quality. A "genetic screening" might mean he doesn't carry hip dysplasia, but can't screen for quality or behavior problems that inherited or acquired along the way. Paperwork is no substitute for meeting the owner/breeder face to face and seeing the parent or parents (the majority of responsible breeders will look for a stud that compliments their bitch, so they my only have the mother but can often show you photos and explain why they chose a certain stud) for yourself.

Even if your dog manages to be relatively healthy, which isn't unheard of, you just paid $1600 to further the pain of its parents. Even supposedly clean "commercial kennels" that meet USDA standards, by their very nature, neglect the animals long term health and mental well being. To ensure the most profit, a female will be bred every hit until she can no longer physically produce puppies or she otherwise becomes a health liability (mammary tumors, prolapses, hernias, etc.). At that point she is typically either sold through auction, abandoned, or euthanized. Most males experience similar fates, though their window of viability is slightly larger. They pace or spin, wearing their pads to blood on wire cage floors, or "finger paint" by smearing their own feces around their cages. Most simply seem to give up, and their are few things more painful then the look of an animal who has no interest in living or even getting up.
>> Anonymous
Do you think my chances of getting a "good" dog then is pretty low?
>> Anonymous
lol enjoy your eugenic fail
>> Anonymous
>>211897

Also, don't expect it to be anywhere near the AKC standard. Because they typically sell puppies to impulse purchasers or people who haven't done research, they are looking for cute puppies and care little about the dog it will grow up to look like. You get long bodied poodles, over sized pomeranians, and short nosed dachshunds.

The reason you are having to be put on a waiting list is because it is in between breeding seasons (they try to have puppies ready for Christmas, those there is a lull after the holidays while they wait for the next heat) and that Huskies in the puppy mill industry are not a high demand breed (small dogs are the most coveted).
>> Anonymous
>>211944
Even if I ask for AKC standards to be met? So even if I wait a month or so it won't be up to standards?

I hope they didn't lie to me when they said they have to LOOK for a breeder with what I asked for, I don't recall them saying that they're going to check through their breeders.
>> Anonymous
>>211938

I have a a dog that was a stud at a puppy mill that was shut down by the state nearly 6 years ago. I am lucky in that, despite the horrid conditions he lived in, he been able to overcome most of his behavior problems and, aside from trachea issues, he is surprisingly healthy. So, it's not unheard of, but I wouldn't count on it. He is no where near the AKC standard, though.

>>211948

They are not looking for a breeder, they are looking for a broker who happens to have huskies at the moment. Like I said, the December puppy boom means that broker supplies are low right now.
>> Anonymous
>>211951
Well, as long as it's healthy I'll be more than happy to take care of it.

Next time I'll look for at least a show quality dog from a local breeder though.
>> Anonymous
>>211953

The point is to do your research. By buying a puppy from them you are in essence supporting an entire industry that thrives on cruelty.

If he/she is already on its way and you've already handed over the money, then it might seem easier for you to just proceed. Prepare yourselves for behavioral problems that come from poor socialization and early separation and expect to have issues with potty training. Start obedience or at least basic puppy classes early, as even well bred huskies are a handful. Neuter or spay him/her by at least six months to avoid hormone related problem behaviors and health issues down the road as well.
>> Anonymous
>>211957
They haven't found one yet. I try to stay in contact with them and call once a week to see what updates they have.

The people there are really a great bunch and obviously love the dogs they have there, but that doesn't really say anything about the people they get their dogs from, huh?

I want to socialize my dog with two others that I know fairly well and take him out to dog parks whenever I can.
>> Anonymous
>>211948Even if I ask for AKC standards to be met?

This is the ranter. There's a big difference between "AKC registered" and "AKC standard". Most AKC registered dogs are not AKC breed standard. A dog or puppy does not have to meet the breed standard to be AKC registered, its breeder just has to have registered parents and send in paperwork and $ to the AKC for a litter to have those pups registered. This is why it's easy for mills and BYB's to pass off AKC REGISTERED!!1 puppies as animals that have legit full health testing. In other words, AKC is not an automatic stamp of quality, there are many other things to check out. Google "signs of a good breeder". But seriously, if you don't have a sled to pull or some other important task, go to a shelter and save a life.
>> Anonymous
>>211959

A lot of people that work at these places have good intentions, but they are also trying to make a sale. I always overhear ignorant or flat out bad advice from pet store employees, even from so called "expert" associates. Most of them are simply ignorant as to where the animals come from or what care they really need.

At this point, since they haven't found one, I would consider looking for your local breed club through http://www.shca.org/ as a starting place and finding a responsible breeder in your area. Odds are you will spend less money and get a far better dog in the process.
>> Anonymous
>>211959The people there are really a great bunch and obviously love the dogs they have there, but that doesn't really say anything about the people they get their dogs from, huh?

Yeah, most of us poor petshop junkies love animals but are stuck in dead-end jobs where we have no choice but to sell you shit stock from shit breeders. Don't support the mills though, if you wait for a well bred husky it'll probably cost $800 max. Store prices are retarded, espiecially for the quality of the animals we sell.
>> Anonymous
>>211969

Since I adopted my puppy mill rescue, I wont enter a store that sells puppies or kittens. I'm not even horribly fond of stores that sells small animals as well considering the horror stories I'm heard. Sadly, I have to compromise on that because it's difficult to find local store that sell premium dry foods and reptile supplies.
>> Anonymous
Well, I've e-mailed the two closest breeders and asked them about Petland to see what their opinions are. Unfortunately neither of them seem to be breeding anymore, they have unmaintained websites.

What I'm thinking of doing is asking them to wait up for a while and seeing if I can get a good breeder to ship one over... although I don't think that's very likely.

Thoughts?
>> Anonymous
>>211979
Well good breeders are often hard to contact. I'm sure these people would give PL horrible reviews though. Did you look at the breeders from the Siberian Husky Club of America's web site? It's a safe bet to say that all the best husky breeders are associated with that site. Check the site for schedules of national events, a great way to meet breeders is at these events. Also google Siberian Husky Club of [your state].
>> Anonymous
>>211979

Be careful of breeders who ship. The internet has opened a whole new industry for backyard breeders and puppy mills that exploit loopholes in state law by selling directly to consumers and avoiding *any* USDA stipulations or inspections. That doesn't mean that responsible breeders wont ship, it just means you need to double check their references and referrals, talk to them on the phone, and ask for *lots* of pictures (not just of the puppies, sire, and dam, but of where their dogs live and of, if possible, dogs from previous litters that are now adults). A good breeder will welcome this kind of scrutiny and appreciate your thoroughness. If you can, even if it's a distance, try drive to to meet the breeder and see their home, as that is they only proof positive way to ensure you are getting the dog you want.

Shipping typically runs between $200 and $300 dollars, which, combined with the puppy purchase, will still probably be less then what Pet Land wants.
>> Anonymous
>>211985
I got their numbers from SCHA! :P

I think they may have just stopped breeding though is the problem. If they don't e-mail back by Thursday I'll call them up, their numbers are listed.

But on the getting a breeder dog sent to the Petland, does that sound possible?
>> Anonymous
>>211987

I would call them, as they may not keep up with their e-mail accounts as thoroughly as you do. If they aren't currently breeding or don't have puppies, they can often recommend someone in the area who is.

If you find a breeder who meets your standards and ships, you will most likely pick up the dog at the airport at a prearranged time. Most brokers will send puppies through ground transport because it's cheaper, but it is horribly long and incredibly stressful on the dogs. Air shipment can be stressful, but it takes less time and is less traumatic overall.
>> Anonymous
>>211990
Probably my last post today, so thanks for your help.

What I meant though was having the dog shipped to Petland and picking it up there through them. I already paid $1600 and although I would like to pay less, I wouldn't mind paying a bit more for the trouble if it would give me peace of mind.

Well, I just finished watching Snatch... I really recommend it, great fucking movie. So good night.