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Anonymous
Dear /an/,

My friends are vegaboos. They are so far into this, that they now refuse to handle any meat altogether - including the canned/bagged dog food and other meats for dogs.
They are insisting that their dogs will be just as healthy surviving on vegan dog chow. Mind you, I've seen family dogs in impoverished Asian countries survive on a diet mostly of carbohydrates, but I remember those dogs as always being skinny, and living tragically short lives of about 4-5 years.

Is feeding vegan food to dogs considered animal cruelty? What should I tell them to try and dissuade them?

Pic related. This is the product they're trying to feed their dogs.
>> Anonymous
Well, hopefully if the company cares enough about animals to make a vegan dog food, it will also care enough to make sure it meets all of a dog's nutritional needs.

That said, forcing a carnivorous animal to live off a vegan diet just sounds retarded, self-serving, and short-sighted. They're putting their own interests ahead of their dogs.

I have a cat that I had been feeding nothing but dry food for several years because I didn't want to handle or smell wet food. Then I realized that she always seemed a bit scrawny, no matter how much food I left for her. So I finally snapped out of my selfishness and started feeding her a mix of wet and dry, and she's eating a lot more now.

Tell your friends to start thinking off your dogs and not themselves, and that its not animal cruelty to feed meat to a carnivore.
>> Anonymous
That's an interesting question
>> Anonymous
mmmh, vegaboos
>> Anonymous
I think it just might work out for dogs. While dogs do need a mix of nutrient more in line with a meat-based diet they don't need any specific nutrients that cannot be found in a vegetable product.

Cats is another matter. They need certain nutrients that can only be found in animal matter. Trying to maintain a cat on a vegan diet is both cruel and ultimately lethal (for the cat, that is).

Ferrets are even worse. Their digestive system is not capable of handling vegetable matter at all.
>> Anonymous
Considering that most people on /an/ probably do not want to know what goes into dog food (I assure you, there is very little actual meat in real dog food) - I seriously can't see how this could be a problem. Those dogs are merely having one kind of crud substituted for another kind of crud. The only real question is whether this stuff is palatable enough for dogs to eat.
>> Anonymous
OTOH, vegan food for cats totally doesn't work. Cats have this thing where certain amino acids (or some such) are only produced in their gut in response to meat, and so become listless and eventually die if fed exclusively non-meat for a while.
>> Anonymous
>>162992
>palatable enough for dogs to eat
My dog eats cowpats.
>> Anonymous
>>163011

Yes, but as far as I Could tell, the dogs will be forced to eat this thing 365 days a year. Will your dog like only cowpats 365 days a year?
>> Anonymous
They're fucking dogs.

Just knock over your trash can once in a while.
>> Anonymous
>>163016
depends aer they man eating cows from beyond!!!?!?!?!?
>> Anonymous
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Your dogs need protein, plain and simple, and without it they won't develop properly and they won't have as much energy - they'll live, but thats about it. You can maybe appeal to your vegifag friends by telling them there are foods that are made with organically raised animals, or maybe you can get them to occupy themselves with a garden. Our dogs love veggies in their dinner, but we also feed them highly meated foods (the dog food we just got for one is 95% duck) and tend to mix them in at dinner time.

Remember: Its OK not to eat meat every now and then, but if you don't eat enough, you break out into little vaginas all over your body.
>> Anonymous !9wIj9WFvnc
>>163043
So true.
>> Anonymous
/i/ to the rescue!
>> Anonymous
If we were talking about cats it would definitely be animal cruelty, they literally cannot live without meat. And I'm disgusted to see that one of those bags is labelled 'cat food'. If you're too fucking precious to properly care for the animals you supposedly love, you don't deserve to have them. Someone should be calling the SPCA on that company.
>> Anonymous
Dogs are certainly omnivorous, though not to the degree that humans are. While maintaining perfect health on a vegan diet is difficult even for humans, I wouldn't risk it on a dog. Plant and fungus-based proteins in the right balance might just do the trick, but I wouldn't trust the food producers to care enough.

And obviously, you cannot do it with an obligate carnivore like a cat. Anyone who thinks it's possible to keep a cat on a vegan diet is deluded beyond reason.
>> Anonymous
OP here.

Today was another day, and I've had a chat with the pair of vegaboos again. So far, there hasn't been too much of an improvement over the switch. As you can tell from the pic, the company only provides dry food for both dogs and cats, and these dogs being about 3-4 months old, they're not handling the change well. From what I can see, their poop is largely made of the same greenish crud.

What I find incredibly sinister about it is that this brand apparently is not just the only vegan pet food brand, it only has a single product. Not even different flavours. You're just supposed to dole out different amounts as the dog ages.

I'm guessing that if a pet dies of malnutrition, or from refusing the food because it's just so bloody sick of it, the company would claim that the owner did not feed the pet enough on its overexpensive food, or that the pet broke the self-claimed balanced routine by feeding it other things.
>> Anonymous
I absolutely hate environmentalists...
>> eggs !!2YW0PJZXbhy
We taught a lion to eat tofu.
>> Anonymous
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>>163512

...cough...
>> Anonymous
>>162992

If you are talking about shitty brands of cheap-ass dog food, then, yes, a large portion of what is in the food is wheat gluten and corn meal. Protip: that's not good for dogs either. I've seen dogs fed a steady diet of only Ol' Roy or whatever else their cheapass owners bought at Wal-Mart develop rickets, anemia, and a host of other physical issues related to poor diet. A decent dog food should be made mainly or exclusively with meat, and it's not like they are that much more expensive than cheapo brands.

Can a dog survive on a vegetarian diet or a diet of shitty food? Yes. But he will not be healthy and his lifespan will be shorter.

Also, for cats, NO.
>> Anonymous
Dogs are omnivors ( however it is spelt), so yes they eat grains and veggies but they do rely mostly on meat, and will most likely die slowly without it. There are quiet a few brands of vegitarian dog foods, such as natural balance and techni-cals ultra dog veggie blend, It's no recommended to feed that to your dog. Have they thought maybe about switching to a fish and potatoe blend? or do they think that fish have feelings to?
>> Anonymous
Lol wuts an carnivore?
>> Anonymous
They either need to grow the fuck up and accept that their pet is basically a tamed wolf, and NEEDS meat, or they need to give it up, and buy a parrot, or something. I've seen dogs fed that shit in the picture, and they look AWEFUL. So yes, them feeding that shit to their dog IS animal cruelty.
>> Anonymous
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>>163448

How can dog know what flavor is?
>> Anonymous
Report them to animal control
>> Anonymous
Vegans are just about the most hypocritical and deluded people in existence.
>> Anonymous
>>163666
hell, vegan humans look awful
>> Anonymous
OP, your only choice of action is to sneak meaty dog food to your friend's dog whenever possible.
>> Moonbarker Osbourne
>>163674

Dogs have 25% fewer taste buds than humans. That could explain why they think that's tasty
>> Anonymous
>>163806
I'm a supertaster, and I can't figure out how most humans can find the crap they usually eat tasty.
>> Anonymous
God dammit your friends are fucking retards.

Okay, so here's how their 'logic' works:

-Animal cruelty is bad
-Since animal cruelty is bad, then eating meat is bad
-I have a dog
-Since eating meat is bad because it's animal cruelty, I won't feed my dog meat.

Didja get that last one? Since ANIMAL CRUELTY (ie: not taking proper care of animals) is BAD, I'm going to FEED MY DOG VEGETARIAN FOOD.

ASK THESE TREE-FUCKING HIPPIES HOW THIS MAKES SENSE!

I don't care if these morons want to whine about the earth or starve themselves to death, but dogs need a certain amount of meat product in their diet. THEY ARE NOT TAKING PROPER CARE OF THEIR DOG! They can certainly 'live' off of a vegetarian diet, but not WELL with all the digestive problems that will come of it.

These fuckshits need to realize they bought an animal that consumes MEAT, and get some other animal if they can't handle that.
>> Anonymous
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Hello, I need some ash.
>> Anonymous
>>163821
One thing that bothers me about pet foods is "ash". It means there are some substances in the food that cannot be identified. Now, you don't see that in any human foods, do you? So how exactly can they identify all the stuff that goes into human food, but not pet food? I think they just simply don't care.
>> Anonymous
>>163674
>>163806
>>163808

Their superior sense of smell makes up for it though. A lot of the stuff you "taste" is actually what you smell.

In the wild, dogs are hunter-scavengers like hyenas, and have a taste for rotting fetid meat. So what they consider yummy may simply be different.
>> Anonymous
>>163836
Does anyone know if dogs can taste sweet? I know cats don't, and I assume dogs don't either, but don't know for sure.
>> Anonymous
OP here again. Today, what with uni and everything, I didn't get to see them. I'm surprised this thread actually is still floating, considering how much the PETAfags and "I ran over my cat lol now wut" threads get saged to hell on principle.

>>163680

I'm sorely tempted, but I'm torn about this. The "information" (read: propaganda) on their website says that it requires around 14 weeks for the dogs to adjust to their new diet. If I secretly feed them meat, their owners will go on and assume it's good for the dogs and stick to it. If I don't feed them meat, they might not LAST the 14 weeks since they're the equivalent of teenagers on a growth spurt.

>>163818

They're absolutely sure this company is ethical and caring enough to make this food meet all the nutritional requirements for a dog. It's a screwed up vegaboo-to-vegaboo thing. See, in the end, they don't trust me as much because I'm a filthy serial killer in their minds. On the other hand, another vegaboo must be the next immaculate fucking conception.
>> Anonymous
>>163837

My cocker spaniel likes sugarcubes. Considering she can also smell them, I'm guessing there's a rich flavour called "sugar" to her rather than the sweet taste us humans are familiar with.
>> Anonymous
>>163838
Try to get them to take the dog to a vet for a checkup within two months of starting of the diet. The vegaboos may not believe you, but they might believe a certified practicioner's opinion on the dogs' condition.
>> Anonymous
>>163838
you also have to consider the sucker factor, 14 weeks is probably a number that's pretty close to what humans on the vegan diet go through so they just slap it on. In the mean time, those well meaning vegafags buy their product thinking they can just keep shoveling it down their dog's throat for a few more weeks and poof suddenly fido will be a new dog!

14 weeks of buying a feel good product is long enough to make the company a healthy profit and probably not too long that a pet owner can't come to their senses and save their pet's life.
>> Anonymous
I still can't wrap my brain around the idea that someone was retarded enough to think cats could live on a vegan diet.

Yeah, I know this thread is about dogs, but still...
>> Anonymous
Like they say, a fool and his money are soon parted. I am willing to bet that an investigation would show the people running this "veganpet" company are not vegaboos at all, and are simply exploiting the well-known idiocy and hypocracy of vegaboos.

Slightly off topic, I used to have a cat that loved cheese more than anything. You could offer him any kind of meat or cheese, and he'd take the cheese every time.
>> Anonymous
>>163893
Well, cheese IS an animal product, full of fats and protein.
>> Anonymous
I'm pretty sure some dumb-arse gang/army unit in afganistan or something has a lion (I think they got it from a zoo) which they've fed on a vegetarian diet. Most depressed looking lion ever.
>> Anonymous
Contrary to the rampant pure speculation on this topic from everyone here, vegan diets actually do work quite well for dogs, and sometimes even for cats as well. My own cat was on a vegan diet for 2+ years (though he's now on a prescription diet, the only reason I gave it up) and he was fine like that. I've personally known many dogs and cats on totally vegan diets who are perfectly healthy.

And yes, it is cruel to support the farming and murder of animals on farms when it's avoidable. If dogs can live without meat (and they can), then it is cruel to support the violence and torture of animals who are killed for their food if other food choices are available.
>> Anonymous
>>163927
Vegetarian or vegan cat food has been available for many years, and is targeted primarily at vegan and vegetarian pet owners. Most veterinarians recommend against vegetarian diets for cats, as cats are obligate carnivores and require nutrients (including taurine, arachidonic acid, vitamin A, vitamin B12 and niacin) found in meat sources that cannot be obtained in sufficient amount in plant sources, although many can be synthesized. One study evaluated cats fed commercial and homemade vegetarian diets. The study found that all cats had serum cobalamin (vitamin B12) levels within the reference range and 3 of 17 cats had serum taurine values below the reference range.[11]

Another study evaluated two vegan diets for nutritional adequacy. The study concluded that the two vegan diets analyzed did not meet the AAFCO minimal nutrient profile for cat diets. The authors recommended that these vegan diets should not be used as a sole source of nutrition for cats.[12]

Even when adequately supplemented, some claim vegetarian diets present other risks, such as urine acidity problems, which are less common in meat-based foods.[citation needed] A few vegetarian cat food brands are labelled by their manufacturers as meeting AAFCO's Cat Food Nutrient Profile while other manufacturers recommend their products to be supplemented and not used as a standalone. Many pet owners have caused their cats to become malnourished when they do not follow the recommendation and mistakenly assume that the latter food is nutritionally complete

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_food#Vegetarian_or_vegan_food
>> Anonymous
>>163927

This is exactly the kind of hypocrisy I'm talking about. If you think it's so wrong for animals to be bred raised and slaughtered to feed your cat, then how about you stop OWNING animals?!

The slaughter will happen whether you feed your cat vegan slush or not, whether you own a cat or not. Quit worrying about your own selfish needs for entertainment and companionship, and stop contributing to their treatment as property instead of proud and graceful predators that deserve to be free.
>> Anonymous
god damn peta fags, animals need to eat other animals to live, its the food chain, if everything just ate plants one of two things would happen, ove population of less desirable things or two everything's gunna die.. Now if you don't believe in feeding animals to your animals why do you think it is right to own an animal?? are you against feeding snakes mice to? or should they be eating carrots?
>> Anonymous
>>163857
Not to mention if the dog's have runny stool because of that shit they're being fed they run the risk of dehydration.
>>163927
Show me your vetrinarian degree and actual vetrinarians that back up vegetarian diets being okay for dogs and we MIGHT believe you. In the meantime, don't have pets and go back to your cabbage patch.
>> Anonymous
>>163927
LoL cat goes from 2 years of vegan cat food to having to eat PRESCRIPTION cat food. Keyword in this possible trolls post is PRESCRIPTION. You give your cat some renal failure for not giving him enough taurine?

Honestly that right there is proof positive vegan is just a mental illness like bulimia or anorexia.

I also bet I get a reply about how I am a filthy toxin ridden meat beast. With an angry excuse to why the cats kidneys conked out because of something totally unrelated to feeding it wheat grass pellets.
>> Tit Kneader (´???)?(?(?
Apparently dogs can do quite well on a vegan diet. Cats, not so.
>> Anonymous
Stupid people ITT.
>> Anonymous
thats wrong
>> Anonymous
Dogs don't NEED MEAT
Cats do
Thats the end of the thread
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>> Anonymous
>>163964
Person who can't reason, this post is yours.
Vegeterian and vegan life styles are completely the choice of the user, and its rather funny when people get all butt hurt over someone living their life.
>> Anonymous
>>163968
No they don't
Dogs don't need meat.
>> Anonymous
>>163838
Dogs don't need meat, your point is illogical. There are plenty of vegeterian food stuffs for dogs that are indeed healthy.
Direct them to one of those instead of insisting that they feed their dog something that conflicts with their personal beliefs.
>> Anonymous
Your vegfag friends are being scammed by the meat-eating stockholders of a company with brilliant marketers.
>> Anonymous
>>163980

It is considered an illness if it's extreme. It's called "orthorexia nervosa" - a mental disease concerned with eating something that is "pure".

>>164041

I don't give a shit about the owners being vegaboos, but there's no reason why their DOGS should be forced into this shit. If their dogs actually PREFER the food, I'm fine with it, but they never got a choice in this. And trust me, no dog can prefer this shit. Can you eat just one type of breakfast cereal 365 days a year, even if it WAS your favourite cereal?

>>164044

Again, I've seen dogs that are fed little meat, primarily vegetarian food, etc. They live tragically short lives.
>> Anonymous
>>164042
>>164040
This is, I believe, called "argumentam ad nauseam", or repeating the same argument in the hopes that people will give up. It has nothing to do with if the argument is correct or not, it just aims at silencing the opposition with the least valid methods.
>> Anonymous
cats MUST HAVE taurine, which comes from other animals, and is still in vegan pet food (silly vegan owners don't know) haha
studies have shown that large dogs also need taurine. dogs are omnivores, they need meat also.
have your friends get a second opinion with their veterinarian, more likely than not, your veterinarian will titter at them and tell them not to be silly. i work for two and that is what they would say, tittering and all.
>> Anonymous
Dogs can and do eat plant matter as well as meat, but not very often in the wild, and mainly as a last resort when starving or for medicinal purposes. A dog just doesn't have the digestive system that can handle plants and vegetables (neither do humans, actually). Carnivores cannot survive an herbivorous diet because they've evolved to process meat.

Notice that vegans and vegetarians have to take pill supplements? Meat contains nutrients, especially ten types of amino acids vital to just stay alive, that do not come from plants. Herbivores can make them, but carnivores have to get them from herbivores. Take the supplements from a vegan and he'll slowly die from lack of nutrition and inability to build and repair body tissues.

People can talk up a storm about the morality and religiousness and other aspects of eating meat, but biologically humans have been and will always be omnivores/carnivores.
>> Anonymous
>>164168
>>(neither do humans, actually).

WRONG. It's this exact thing that's wrong with vegans that feed dogs veggie food: assuming human and dog digestive systems are the same. They are not. Humans have probably eaten meat for at least the last 7 million years, but we evolved from frugivorous ancestors and fruits, nuts and tubers have been an important part of human diet during all that time. Dogs on the other hand have always been carnivorous throughout their evolutionary history. They never had a phase during which they would have evolved to survive on plants alone.

So, while humans aren't herbivores, we have sufficient adaptations to allow us to remain relatively healthy on a vegan diet. Dogs, that are only slightly omnivorous carnivores, do not.
>> Anonymous
>>164174

only fruits and vegetables, though. Unlike many monkeys and gibbons, humans can't munch leaves and twigs and expect to get anything worthwhile out of them. And the amino acids point still stands, not even nuts and other meat-like plant foods can supply them.
>> Anonymous
swinging this bus back on topic, perhaps the OP should be pose this suggestion on his vegetarian friends. Vegetarianism and Veganism is something one engages in by choice, if they are as benevelent as they think they are perhaps offer the dog that same choice. Put two bowls of dog food out, the vegan stuff and one of the high quality pet food brands. Do this for two weeks. If the dog consistantly goes for the vegan stuff first, it has made its choice. If not, the vegans have to consider that their dog doesn't want to live the way they do.
>> Anonymous
>>164236
You are forgetting that vegans are essentially fundamentalists. Reasoning with fundamentalists is akin to trying to break a brick wall with a marshmallow.
>> Anonymous
the best thing for a dog to eat is Meat
dogs come from wolves
how many fucking wolves do you see picking berries?

Starch is shit for dogs, anything with Corn in it is fucking shit, and I'm guessing this shit is choc full of it

theres some alternatives to Pure meat that's good for dogs, but it does involve meat somewhere
>> Anonymous
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this is what my dogs eat
great dry dog food, or greatest dry dog food?
>> Anonymous
Wellness Dog Food is ranked a "Top Dry Dog Food" by the Whole Dog Journal. Wellness dog food represents a new generation of uniquely formulated, all-natural pet food which rivals human food in quality, nutrition and the cooking process. The primary protein source in the Wellness dog food line is human grade deboned chicken, human grade Atlantic whitefish or hormone-free lamb, depending on the formula. In addition, these top-of-the-line dog foods contain fresh fruits and vegetables, healthy grains, and vitamins and minerals. Another major differentiator is that unlike most commercial dog food manufacturers that rapidly extrude their food, Old Mother Hubbard slowly oven bakes its Wellness Super5Mix dog foods and treats to preserve and enrich the nutrients, and to enhance the aroma.
Wellness dog food does not contain any rendered animal fats, meat by-products, wheat, corn or white rice and also does not contain any artificial colors, flavors or preservatives of any kind.
>> Anonymous
Any of you actually spend time with dogs that live outside and provide for themselves? They eat wild game (rabbits, yadda yadda) and munch on grass... not as a meal, but to regulate and stuff. Like Grandpa and fiberwater, dogs only eat enough veggies to keep their bodies in check.
>> Anonymous
Wait, wait...so vegans won't eat anything that comes from an animal, but they'll own one? I thought that was essentially against the whole vegan mantra?
>> Anonymous
>>164354

They owned them prior to becoming vegans, or more like they reserved the puppies prior to becoming vegans. I also befriended them prior to them becoming vegans.

Look, it's all very complicated, and I'm waiting out a month to see how bad the dogs look, then calling the RSPCA on them.
>> Anonymous
>>164400
Good call.
>> Anonymous
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To the OP:

If your friends have become militant, superious vegan buttholes, then you might be wasting your time. I'd recommend contacting veterinarians and getting some info on the affects of vegan diets in dogs.

If your friends poo-poo it, then bring up the fact that the vegan pet food company will say just about anything to make money. In a niche market like that, they're catering to a very select group...and a very narrow minded one at that.

What makes more sense, heeding the advice of a professional caregiver, or the marketing material for a business that wants your cash?
>> Anonymous
>>164406

As often as I have appealed to whatever remaining sense they may have in any brain cells that haven't died off yet, it's not working. And I thought telling Scientologists to see sense was awkward and stupid enough.

As to the vet thing - you gotta understand, these are people who suddenly believe they used to be filthy murderers for eating meat, and now considers the rest of the world as serial murderers. They're specifically seeking out a fellow vegaboo vet. At this point in time, saying something like "tell me who that is so I can get his/her licence revoked" is just asking for all their weird views about how everyone persecutes vegans to be affirmed in their heads.

Right now, I feel really stupid to have brought up the subject with them in the first place. As I said before, I'm going to give up on it, and if the dogs' conditions deterioriate, I'm calling the RSPCA on them.
>> Anonymous
>>163838

1. Any food that requires a dog to adjust to it for more than 2 weeks is not good. A healthy dog should adjust to a new food in a week's time, 2 at most.

2. Any food that is labeled for "all life stages" or says it can be fed to any age dog is nothing more than puppy food. It is NOT good for adult dogs, it is RETARDED to feed to an older dog, and is just plain stupid to buy (this goes for other dog foods, not just vegan ones).

3. The FDA does not regulate dog food very well. Simply because it is a manufactured diet does not mean it is formulated well for a dog to eat. By FDA standards a food consisting of nothing more than old shoe leather, crude oil, water, and sugar is an acceptable dog food. That doesn't sound too appetizing, does it? It won't sustain a dog for very long, either.

Essentially most of the less-known brands or brands that you find at a natural food store or organic food store (DooLittle's, etc.) is pure junk to feed to a dog. Do your pets a favor and stick to brands like Eukenuba/Iams, PurinaOne (not regular), Science Diet, and occasionally Bil Jac (still an iffy brand). If you feed any other brand of food then you are just not doing your dog justice. I'd like to think I know a good bit about this being a vet tech of many years, having gone through a few veterinary nutrition courses, and seeing what these foods do long-term.
>> Anonymous
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this thread severely lacks of broccoli dog
>> Anonymous
>>164723

Good points, though I would like to add another suggestion: Lab food. Check out the pet foods which are used for labratory research animals. Purina, for example, makes a variety of them. Research animals must be in excellent health, and they are also extremely expensive. Unlike commercial pet foods where money is spent on nice advertising or fancy packaging, "lab grade" food is designed to deliver proper nutrition above all else: after all, tremendous amounts of money are hinging on the product. Nobody is going to risk a multimillion dollar study due to shoddy food for their animals.
>> Moo !XBOXgikTFw
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=d8p102ro0&show_article=1 kinda related ^o ^