File :-(, x, )
Anonymous
How hard is it to get a noob aquarium going?

I know shit about fish, never had any other than cheap goldfish-of-the-week as a kid. What google produces makes it look intimidating and confusing to ready and maintain a tank, but it can't be THAT bad, can it?

Not looking to anything fancy or big. Just something small, quaint, and some fish with some personality in normal room temperature.

What's /an/ recommend as fish-for-fucking-idiots?
>> Anonymous
Are you willing to learn how to maintain an aquarium of at least ten gallons or more, furnished with appropriate substrate (sand/gravel), decoration, plant cover (fake or live), and filtration? How about lighting? Why no heating?

If you want a desktop aquarium, or really anything five gallons or less, I'd recommend a betta. Anything else is going to require filtration at the very least.
>> Anonymous
small is more difficult to maintain...

Better to fo as big as possible. I generally recommend 20 gal or larger for a starter freshwater tank. Go with a Marineland filter system with biowheel biofilter. And start with basic small freshwater community fish... tetras, guppies, mollies, etc. Remember: fill the aquarium, let it sit overnight to age the water and get rid of chlorine. Day two, after aging the water for 24 hours, start running your filter. Let the filter run in a fishless tank for at least a week before adding fish. And remember the golden rule: One gallon of water per inch of fish. Meaning a 20 gallon starter tank is fit for 20 inches of fish, or maximum ten average community fish of the types listed above. Invest in water test strips or kit... they are priceless.
>> Anonymous
Small is definitely harder to maintain. The bigger the tank, the more stable everything will be and you won't have to worry about crazy ammonia spikes and things of that nature. The small the tank, the faster things can go wrong.

I guess it's a lot of work in the beginning, but once you get it all set up correctly, maintenance is pretty simple. A tank, somewhere to put it, a good filter, a water testing kit, a heater (for tropical fish), a thermometer, some water conditioner, and you're ready to go. Of course, all of that stuff is going to run you several hundred dollars, at least.

After it's set up and cycled, all you have to do is change out some of the water/vacuum the gravel and test the water to make sure everything's running smoothly.

The one inch of fish per gallon rule is misleading... it only applies to small fish that don't produce a lot of waste. It doesn't apply to goldfish or larger tropical fish.

If you insist on something small with no heater... I don't know what to tell you. You could get away with a ten gallon tank with a few White Cloud Mountain Minnows or some Danios, maybe Guppies, although I think they prefer warmer water. You don't have a lot of options if you go that route. Even a Betta doesn't do well without a heater.
>> Anonymous
>>307349
>>307557

Haha. Well, like I said, I know shit about fish. I thought heating was for weird-ass tropical fish that take a really finicky temperature and freak out over insignifigant variants. If tank heating is common, that's not a problem.

I'm certainly willing to learn - don't expect things to take care of themselves.

Smaller is harder though, huh? I didn't know that either. I've got room for bigger for sure, just trying to keep things reasonably simple, so I can cut my teeth on it without too many unexpected problems.
>> Anonymous
>>307562
unless you keep your house under 70 degrees you probably won't need a heater, which are products of the aquarium/pet industry's greed and people's ignorance. A heater would be required for some crazy finiky fish like you mentioned, and (most) saltwater/reef tanks, i.e. tanks that need to be kept steady and above room temperture, provided your house is usually warmer than 72ish then I wouldn't worry about it, nothing looks gayer in a small tank than a big ass gawdy heater stuck in a corner somewhere. Just know that if your house gets really cold for some reason then you are screwed...though it would probably be becuase your electricity went out (or poor anon can't pay bills) in the winter, in which case you are screwed anyway right? You just can't turn off your heat in the winter is you leave town (not recommended anyway, and plus if you are gone long enough to turn down your heat in the winter then your fish are dead when you come back anyway amiright?)

So here's the deal /an/on.
( I swear I type this out every week, I'mma copypasta this some time)
>> Anonymous
So you want fish with personality huh? In a small tank huh?
Tetras, rasboras, danios, micro-rasboras/danios = small, but not personality, /an/on will quickly tire of them, stop replacing evaporated water in their tank and they will die.

Bettas, badis badis, scarlet badis, dario darios, croaking/sparkling gouramis, dwarf gouramis, liquorice gouramis = lots of personality and you can have several from this list in even a picotank (ask if interested); badis badis, scarlet badis, dario darios, and liquorice gouramis are not the easist to get eating sometimes but the rewards are great.

After those guys you have the 10g-20g cichlids - shell dwellers, like Neolamprologus brevis and several other small ones (ask if interested), not that pretty coloration wise, but they live in shells, breed well, and have FUCK TONS, METRIC FUCK TONS of personality. Watching their interactions should keep even ADD /an/on interested. They bury their little shells, carry some sand to their neighbors territory, dump it on his door, he comes out and is like "WTF MAN!" But what the intruder doesn't know is that while he was gone somebody picked some sand out of their territory and put it on his door step and so he comes 4 inches home and is like "Where the fuck this sand come from motherfuckers!!" and Then the female carries her shell over next to the male when she's horny and he's all like "hey all ya'll fuckers look at me, Imma PIMP." but some other guy steals the chicks shell when they aint looking and puts it next to his, and she turns around and is like "WTF WHERE THE FUCK MY SHELL GO FUCKERS I WILL END YOU!" So she goes and grabs her shell back and moves it next door to the pimp again and this goes on and on and on and on...very fun to watch....did I mention these fish max out at like 1.5-2 inches? A 10g can hold a trio, a 40g breeder can hold a fucking metropolis.
>> Anonymous
then there are Altolamp. compressiceps, and Altolamp. Calvus, they can get 5 inches but you'll be moving out of the studio apartment before they do so it doesn't matter, if they get to big a 3 incher is worth about $30 at the store you bought them from so cash in and start over. Then there are Julies and Brichardi complex cichlids to throw into the mix.

So look on CL, find a petstore, see what they got used, google all these fish I mentioned and see what gets your dick hard and report back.

10g tank = $10
Hood with incandecent lights = $25? if remember
Two 50/50 compact flourecent light bulbs to kick your tank into overdrive coolness = $24
Maxijet 400 = $18
SANDSANDSAND, gravel is for noobs, the brevis need it to be fun too = $2-10, ($5 for a 50lb bag of play sand from home dept)
Rocks = free from your local creek (round river rocks) or buy from pet store (nothing corny for the love of god and no lava rock)
Plants - wad of java moss, some crytocorns, an anubis = $20 or so (depending on what you get, what you like...)
Branch/drift wood = (see Rocks)
Brevis trio = $24
Shells for Brevis = Real pet/reef/fishstores should have snail shells that will work, I like large zebra turbos, get 5 or so. $5
??????????
AWESOME THE FUCK TANK
(until you dump beer in it)
>> Anonymous
It's not that hard, just learning what to do.

Changing filter, maintaining the heat, managing the lights, regular feeding. Then once in a while you have to clean your substrate.

Then learn to put fish in and research the kinds of fish you're buying so you don't get one that's going to munch the others.

Beginner fish can take a lot of abuse so for a freshwater tank you can make a certain amount of mistakes.
>> Anonymous
>>307581
Oh forgot water changes.
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
I forgot about apistogrammas and german blue rams, a trio of apistos in a 10g is pretty hot.

<- 1.5 inch fish with personality
>> sage
>>307577
you my friend are an ignorant ass hole who has never kept any tank worth its salt. a heater is one of the most important items to place in a fish tank, not only does it keep the tank at the proper temp for fish it also keeps the temp stable, as fluctuations in temp can lead to stress which in turn can kill fish, so unless your house is a constant 76 degrees F you will need a heater and the standard rule of thumb is about 3-7 watts of power to every gallon of water so for a 10 gallon tank a standard 55 watt heater would be ideal. also with some creative aquascaping you wont even know the heater is there. another thing to factor in would be size of the tank i would recommend the largest tank you can afford namely because larger systems are simpler to to care for
>> Anonymous
>>307577
My goldfish tank was always in the mid-60's, and my house isn't cold. Most tropicals require an constant temp in the 70's. The heater prevents temperature swings, as well. A heater is like 10 bucks anyway, even if you aren't certain that you need it, it's not going to break the bank.
>> Anonymous
>>307591
>>larger systems are simpler to to care for

anon doesn't do water changes and has a tenitive grasp of only the most basic guidelines of introductory aquarium keeping as opposed to the comfort that can only come from years in the hobby and an understanding of aquariums and fish that borders on subconscious

>>76 degrees F

why not 80?, why not 75? why not 73? why can't it go from 76 to 80? or from 77 to 74. Someday I'll spend some money on a camera instead of growing my fish collection and show you my cardinal tetras, angelfish, killies, badis, microrasboras, cichlids, etc.. with out a heater, ya know why, cuase I have a new age contraption called a thermostat.
My discus and my reef do have heaters though, becuase my house is not 82 degrees, though many reefs are run at 75 and up, and some do not have heaters becuase it is usally the opposite in a reef tank, you need to keep it cool, with lights and pumps a tank might stay around 80 just fine, I wouldn't recommend it though.
>> Anonymous
>>307596
all of my tropical tanks are kept at 76 degrees and i have found for most tropical 76 is ideal except for a few odd cases which a noob aquarist would never encounter unless they were completely retarded and had assloads of cash to blow on things like sharks, rays, octopus, cuttlefish, and other animals that either need hotter or colder water. also 76 degrees keeps the metabolic rate of the fish running at a decent rate so if you miss a feeding when the water is at 80 degrees it will cause some harm to the fish however if the temp is around 76 degrees less harm will be caused also if you keep the fishes metabolic rate running at a slightly slower rate the fish will live a lot longer, but it will grow slower so if you want shortlived fast growing fish by all means keep your tank over 80 degrees
>> Anonymous
>>307596
also i forgot to mention some of the newer thermostats for houses can be set for the temp to change at certain times for instance i have mine set to not use the furnace as much at night than during hours when i am home as to save some money on heating bills during winter months
>> Anonymous
>>307605
>>if you miss a feeding when the water is at 80 degrees it will cause some harm to the fish

You leave town for 5 days...
A) Buy an automatic fish feeder
B) Get a friend to feed them
C) Leave town? lol.
D) Don't worry about it becuase your damn fish will be fine without getting feed 3 times a day

The correct answer is D. I usually feed every day, but if you miss some here and there your fish will be fine. I place exceptions on fry and maybe micro finicky fish being kept in sterile environments
>> Anonymous
>>307610
So your house goes from what to what over an hour or more? And the body of water goes from what to what over how much more of a longer period than that?
>> Anonymous
And keep in mind I'm not against heaters, I just think they are superfluous in many conditions.
>> Anonymous
>>307619
I used to agree... but once you go over 100 gallons, ambient room temperature isn't enough to maintain tropical temps in the water.
>> Anonymous
>>307596
You're an idiot. I've been doing this for 14 years, and if you don't know why your fish shouldn't be subjected to rapid temperature changes then you probably should give up the hobby and stop torturing your fish.

Larger systems are easier to care for, it's a fact. Easier because if something goes awry, the effect isn't as drastic as it is in a small aquarium. Easier for a noob, like the OP we are trying to help, who just might have something go awry in the beginning. Where did you get the impression that it means you don't have to do water changes?
>> Anonymous
Even if you don't like to throw money away by heating unoccupied rooms in winter you won't need to worry about heating if you go for native North American freshwater fish. You can catch them yourself or buy them from places online. Maintaining a freshwater aquarium is ridiculously easy if you don't do some dumbfuck thing like overstock your tank (like everyone always seems to do). Keeping it planted is always a good idea as it helps keep algae growth to a minimum.

Easy, cheap tank: 20-30 gallons, good fluorescent or compact fluorescent ballast, some grow-lights, couple bags of pond substrate and river sand from a nursery, filter with bio-wheel, air pump, some elodea and hornwort, a darter or two, some killifish, and minnows.
>> Anonymous
Remember that regular partial water changes are FUCKING IMPORTANT to keep Nitrates under control. Learn about the nitrogen cycle. The smaller the tank you have, the easier it is for nitrate concentration to get to stressful levels.
>> Anonymous
>>307642
Define RAPID RAPID FUCKING RAPID NOT YOUR AC GOING ON AND OFF EVERY COUPLE HOURS!! temperature changes? Tell me why a cardinal tetra can't go from 77 to 74 over several hours, have you never been in a natural body of water and felt several degree differences over just a few feet? When we get in a box of fish it's often 70 degrees, ya warm'em up over an hour or two and off they go. Fish keeping is not a fucking magical never-never land with strict rules and absolutes that only a select few can comprehend, try paying more attention to your tank than to some arbitrary guidelines passed down from the Victorians.

Everyone keeps saying small tanks are more difficult, I say small tanks are just as difficult as large tanks...but on a smaller scale which means less work (hope you follow me here)
>> Anonymous
Ya know, at the fish store where I work we have a 3g reef tank on the counter, it has a 18w CF bulb, a little filter, and a heater, for the past year we have had xenia, zoas, ricordea, GSPs, duncans, an eviota goby, and a pistol shrimp/goby pair. And people always ask about it, at least a person a day...and all my coworkers immediatly try to scare people away from it..."oh bigger is better, it's easier, more stable, blah blah..." They make it out like this tank is a disaster waiting to happen...but the truth is all tanks are. And what they don't realize as they say this is that we wipe the glass on this little tank once a week, do an amazingly easy 1g water change once a week, and dump a cup of RODI water in over 3 or 4 days..and it thrives, yet we have 125g tanks that we have to go maintain every week too but it takes 3 hours...10 minutes a week...versus 3 hours a week...TELL ME WHAT THE FUCK!! COGNITAVE DISSONANCE FFS RAAAGGEEE!! We have to go tinker with a 540g full reef every other fucking day!! We have put in hundreds of hours under sumps, installing chillers under his fucking house, gluing PVC, tweeking lights, fucking with the skimmer, the refugium (also a fucking sham but he had to have one), FFS I WANT TO RAGE SOOO HARD WHEN I HEAR IDIOTS SPOUT THIS SHIT!!!
>> Anonymous
Never did I say you dont have to do water changes. But on a small tank a water change is easier, and a 3g water change on a 10g does a lot of good, while to get the sme effect in a 55 you would need to like an 18g water change, which is more work fuck head.


>>307683
>>The smaller the tank you have, the easier it is for nitrate concentration to get to stressful levels.

Another fuck head that does not know about a thing called ratios. A 10g with a couple dwarf cichlids or some tetras is the same thing as a 55 full of mbuna, but no ones says shit about that. IF GRAMS PER GALLON ARE SIMILAR THEN THE NITRATE PRODUCTION IS GOING TO BE SIMILAR!! But put a little wad of java in a 55g and do a 3g water change every week and see what happens to your nitrates....now try the same thing in a 10g

I Will make a promise to all of you I have lost more fucking fish to god damn heater MALFUNCTIONS than I ever have to fucking "rapid" temperature change.

"oh no I was 78 a few hours ago and now I'm 76 JESUS CHRIST they are all dead!!!"
Nope never said that.
>> Anonymous
What I have said "FUCKING GOD DAMN FUCKING HEATER FUCKING 95 FUCKING DEGREES MY TETRAS MY BEAUTIFUL FUCKING TETRAS!!
i've also said "MY FUCKING ACROPORAS!!! NOT MY OREGON TORT FUCKING 94 DEGREES FOR THE LOVE OF GOD IT STINKS LIKE DEAD FISH IN HERE FFS!!! RAAAGGGEEE.

Also even the best maintained and equiped reef tanks will still swing a degree or 3 over 24 hours due to the lighting...but holy fukc, not reef creatures adapted to the stabillity of the ocean for the love of god no!!

I hate you
>> Anonymous
>>307745
You have some serious issues. And we're not talking 540g reef tanks, so I'm not sure why you brought that up. No one said he should convert half his apartment into a reef tank... by "big" I think we all mean something like a 55 gallon.

Also, it should make you wonder why all of the other people at your fish store disagree with you. Couldn't possibly be because you're full of shit, could it?
>> Anonymous
>>307755
Or it could be becuase they are noobs used to fill space and are just good for reciting random guidelines, kinda like you would be, we don't even allow them to give recomendations on fish and coral selections. The two new workers don't know any better so they repeat this shit and so they don't have to actually explain anything or assume any intelligence on the part of the noob....kinda like you are doing now.

I also like how you disregarding and countered my wall of text with your trite comment, thats either some great troll-fu or you got pwned.

Idiot, if a 55 is better than a 10, then a 75 is easier than a 55, and so on...so this 540 should be fucking bullet proof with evey fucking modern reef keeping peice of technology on it right (hell it even fucking emails me when the orp changes too much)? You have to follow your own logic fucker...at what point does a bigger tank become more difficult?
Prove to me that a similar stocked 10g is more difficult than a similar 55g and I'll STFU, but you can't cuase all you can do is repeat bullshit you heard somewhere without the slightest hint of comprehension on your part....oh I don't care, if a programmer had to explain how to use a fucking mouse I'm sure he would rage too.
>> Anonymous
>>307767
No one responded to all that crap because you were just ranting about shit that didn't even have anything to do with the topic.

A larger tank becomes more difficult when it takes three hours or whatever the fuck you said to change the water. But it wouldn't take that long to tend to a 55 gallon tank, so I don't know what the fuck you're on about.

You can't comprehend the fact that smaller tank allows for problems to get out of hand faster than larger tanks, so I don't know how else to spell it out for you. LESS WATER, PROBLEM HAPPEN FASTER FOR NOOB.... MORE WATER, PROBLEM HAPPEN SLOWER FOR NOOB SO NOOB CAN TAKE ACTION TO FIX. Do you understand now?
>> Anonymous
>>307782
assuming similar stocking densities and equipment then shit goes south at the same rate, though the 10g is easier to fix.
>> Anonymous
>>307797
but a larger tank is easier to maintain.
>> Anonymous
Goddamnit I want a fucking fish tank after reading all this.
I want some of those shell dwelling fuckers, too.
>> Anonymous
what the hell kind of heater are you using, aquaman? 95 degrees? did you throw some saran wrap on a space heater and drop that bitch in there?
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
>>307825
given time any heater rated for the tank it is in can get the water 95 degrees if it fucks up. in one of my cases the temp probe fell off the back glass and touched the substrate, making the tank nearly boil over the weekend I was gone. Then first reef tank was done it by a shitty stealth heater, reason one we don't sell them any more, reason two is that half the tanks they are in end up having live fucking curent in them, thats always good for the fish (they don't seem to mind actually, but it can hurt like hell).

>>30780
I'll add up the maintence time on a 10g you do a 55, we'll see who wins

>>307804
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/category.php?cat=14

I recommend brevis, multies, and occelatus
If you liked my account then read http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/shelldweller_corner.php
that should tip the scales

<---Take me home anon, I'll sux your dick
>> Anonymous
in all honesty i am disappointed in /an/. first off heaters are extremely important not because they keep the temperature warmer but they keep it stable. next point if you want a small tank be prepared to do a lot of daily maintenance, and dont get me wrong i enjoy keeping small systems like nano reefs, but for a noob a 20 long or 40 breeder would be the perfect tank to start with. another thing i did not see was cycling the tank before you add fish, it doesn't matter how big your tank is it need to be cycled before it is stocked. cycling is easy but time consuming the basic cycling procedures can take up to a month before you can add fish, you cycle by either adding the chemicals to jump start your biological filtration or you buy some cheap fish and feed them and their waste will start to cycle your tank. the next thing to consider are fish op you said you want fish with personality, i recommend African cichlids, as they are colorful and have lots of personality. also the standard rule of thumb for stocking a freshwater fish tank is to have one inch of fish per gallon of water and do not forget to account for the adult size of the fish. here is some useful information that should get you started in this great hobby
>> Anonymous
I've always wanted to own seahorses....
>> Anonymous
FREShwater is easy as fuck, honestly maintaing it really isn't that bad. I do 50% water changes twice a week with a gravel vac on my 210 gallon tank. i check water parameters once a week with my water test kit. just make sure you cycle the tank before you add any "precious" fish.
salt on the other hand requires more skill.
>> Anonymous
>>308238
50% twice a week? Why?
>> Anonymous
>>308241

I run x2 Fluval FX5 on that tank, but the fish in it produce a ton of waste, that's why :)
>> Anonymous
>>308262
210 gallon running two Fluval FX5, and you still need water changes twice a week? What the fuck do you have in the tank? Carp eating a diet of ground beef?

I've got ONE FX5 on my 300 gallon oscar tank, and it does fine. I haven't done a real water change in three months. Topped off evap regularly, but that's it. Chemistry is perfect every ten days when I test.
>> Anonymous
>>308272

x1 8" gold spot pleco HEAVY shitter
x5 Pygocentrus nattereri
x7 Pygocentrus cariba
x1 red belly pacu
I feed them raw fish/shrimp/cichlid gold every day, it makes a mess.
>> Anonymous
>>308274
why do you use the latin for your scissor fish, but not for your pacu and your pleco? Are piranha more badass if you use the latin?

And, for the record, it still sounds like you're doing it wrong. Those fish, in a 210 gallon, shouldn't cause a need for two water changes a week. and as messy as you think your pleco is, at least you picked a species that doesn't get mammoth... my largest may well exceed 4 feet in length when she gets full grown. She already shits like a man. And she shares a 750 gallon wall tank with various south american cichlids, two other catfish, and a pair of arowana.
>> Anonymous
>>308318

oh well, I guess i'm just anal about my fish
>> Anonymous
>>308238
whoa 50% water changes are way too much and if you need to do it twice a week you are doing something seriously wrong. a mature system should only need a weekly 10% or bimonthly 20%. so whats the deal do you not use your filters, do you enjoy killing off all the good bacteria in your substrate or do you lack a complete understanding of how closed systems work?
>> Anonymous
>>308446
The Anons are correct. Changing half the water twice a week means you're changing 100% of the water every week, which is bad.
>> Anonymous
>>307740
if anyone is following Victorian fish keeping rules its you for not using modern technology and not doing research. also aquatic environments are very stable in temperature when you feel a shift in temp in water is is most likely a thermocline caused by different temps at different depths. one last thing before you GTFO put all your fish in your freezer sell your tanks and quit the hobby while your still ahead