File :-(, x, )
Anonymous
Something about this seems profoundly fucked up. Like, Tantalus' eternal punishment fucked up.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3261+10345+15736&pcatid=15736
>> Anonymous
1. put your cat in a steel cage with no chance of escape.
2. put the cage outside.

sounds pretty healthy, eh?
>> Anonymous
...you do realize you're not supposed to lock the cat in there, right?
>> Anonymous
>>293966
>>293967
Morons. Both of you.
>> Anonymous
why just not let it go outside, i dont understand people who buy cats and keep them locked in side
>> Anonymous
>>294090
We found my cat as a tiny starving kitten outside in the winter time. Since then he has never had any desire to go back out. If someone leaves a door to the outside open for an extended period of time he freaks.

I know a lot of people who keep inside cats and take them for daily walks. I don't know, I guess they're scared of them not returning. I never had the problem.
>> Anonymous
>>294090

So they won't get hit by cars or eaten by dogs or lost or poisoned or totally decimate wild bird populations?
>> Anonymous
>>294095
Not to mention just...never coming back.

Being a cat owner must be the most unrewarding experience.
>> Anonymous
>>294099
only if you toss it outside and ignore it.
>> Anonymous
When I adopted my two cats, I had to sign a paper saying that I would keep the cats indoors.
>> Anonymous
>>294090

Outdoor cats are a mixed bag.
>> Anonymous
>>294117

One that you hopefully beat with a baseball bat.

AMIRITE?
>> Anonymous
It was a difficult decision around here. I live near the woods and there's a LOT of stray cats, so I figured my cats would be fine going outdoors. Actually, my first cat was a feral stray kitten. I did managed to keep her indoors and still let her outside when she wanted, and she would always come back.
Except for the day when she was hit by a car anyway. She already had kittens by then, so we kept 3 of them.
We still let them go outdoors. Then, one was hit by a car at 1 years old. So we decided not to let them out anymore.
But it was kind of too late. They were used to going outside and they were DETERMINED to go out there. One cat actually tore open the plastic on the side of the AC in the window to escape. And he eventually disapeared, we don't know what happened to him, but he would have come back if he lived.
So I have one cat left from that litter. He still loves going outside but he rarely manages to do it, and he seems smart enough to stay away from cars anyway. I got another cat too, but she HATES going outside because she's a total scardy-cat.
>> Onee-chan !!dBwbrk+4DwV
>>294148
Thats so sad :(
>> Anonymous
>>294148
oh my bad. i thought is was a ferral cat thats why i ate it/
>> Anonymous
I had 2 cats when I was younger, both from the same litter who would go outside all the time. We live in a relatively quiet place, and our garden backs onto other gardens so they didn't often wander out the front into the roads. One died at 13 and the other at 18, and both from health complications and in the end old age.
My parents first cat got hit my a car though and died more or less straight away, that was in a different house on a main road though.

The thing about outdoor cats that bugs me is when they shit in your garden. Somehow we managed to train ours...no idea how.
>> Anonymous
>>294148
:(

Yeah when you make outside a forbidden fruit, those fuckers will do anything to get it. My boyfriend's got cats that used to be outside ones, but as of a few years ago became exclusively inside, and whenever they hear a door open they bolt for it.
>> Anonymous
The window cage seems all right. My indoor/outdoor cat LOVES to climb onto the window sill when the window is open and sleep there leaning against the screen.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3100&rel=1
The outdoor kitty walk thing is just weird for me. Six feet is not enough room for you cat to run around in. It'll be bored after 30 seconds. Keeping it inside would be more stimulating.
>> Anonymous
My cat's 18, and she's been an outdoor cat all her life. She comes in in bad weather, when she's sick, and to eat.
>> Anonymous
When I was a kid, every cat we had was an indoor/outdoor cat that came and went as they pleased. Every single one of them got killed (one drank antifreeze, two got killed by some sort of animal, one got hit by a car). Eventually my family got a clue and started keeping them indoors. Guess how many cats got killed after that? Zero. One died of old age at 14, and the other still lives with my mom and is 11.
>> Anonymous
>>294357
Your cats were probably idiots.
>> Anonymous
>>294357
14 is old for cats?
I haven't known a cat that hasn't lived past 20.
>> Anonymous
>>294376
Average life span for a cat is 16.
>> Anonymous
we had a cat named Dulcinaya ( my mom smokes a lot of weed) and she lived to 23.
>> Anonymous
My boyfriend's cat lived to a very rickety and emaciated 27 years old. Her name was Kelly, but for towards the end there we started calling her 'Bonesy' instead.
>> Anonymous
is it wrong that I've completely lost track of how old my cat is? I think he's 12, he could be older.
>> Anonymous
My cat is 12 and never stepped foot outside until this summer. It's pretty funny. He just chills behind the bushes by the side of our house.
>> Anonymous
i make going indoors a forbidden fruit for my cat and he lives out in the garden and railroad tracks for the most part. so whenever he sees a door left open he charges into the house. sometimes the family lets him hang out and he enjoys it a lot.
>> Anonymous
I have had 10 cats growing up, always 3 or 4 at a time, they have all been let in and out as they please when possible, and only one has ever been hit by a car, all of the others have lived 10 or more years, the oldest two both lived till just over 20, and have died of natural causes. I live in a fairly small town without a lot of traffic, and we have always chased my cats away from the road, to make it a place they don't want to be. If you don't live in a heavy traffic or VERY rural area where wild predators could be a problem, there really isn't any reason not to let your cats outside, even if only with your supervision if you don't feel comfortable letting them out on their own.
>> Anonymous
You know what I hate? I hate when neighbors let their cats out and they prowl my yard, burying their foul-stinking shit in my flowerbed.

I soak them completely with the hose whenever I notice them in my back yard, but they keep on doing it.
>> Anonymous
Me and my family have had cats pretty much our entire lives. I can't remember the last time we didn't have at least six cats roaming around.

We let the cats come and go as they please. Most of the time they just chill out inside, napping, but they can come and go whenever they like through the cat-flap.

In my entire life, we have only had two cats go missing. And, surprise, surprise, they were both un-neutered tomcats.

We did have one accident where the bastard who lives behind us decided to leave cat food out, but with a dash of slug pellets inside. Two of our cats almost died from that, but we got them to vet in time to get their stomachs pumped, but not before they both suffered serious nerve damage in their faces. One is still alive today at 14 years old.

Moral of the story: Sometimes letting the cats come and go freely outside is ok, sometimes you just get unlucky.
>> Anonymous
>>294643
So not only did you keep cats and let them roam outside freely, to be a nuisance to others and at risk to their own lives, but you also didn't neuter them, contributing to the feral cat overpopulation.

Great job there.
>> Anonymous
>>294647

6/10

I actually typed out a massive rant but realised halfway that you're just a dumbass troll.
>> Anonymous
>>294647So not only did you keep cats and let them roam outside freely, to be a nuisance to others and at risk to their own lives, but you also didn't neuter them, allowing them to do what nature urges them to do without humans tampering unnecessarily.

Fixed.
>> Anonymous
>>294647
Do YOU want YOUR vagina sewn shut?

It might be a good idea, to keep your egotistic superiority complex out of the gene pool. Go play god somewhere else, faggot.
>> Anonymous
>>295268

I guess then, our artificial species are entirely vestigial. They don't count in the first place. They don't matter. Your logic is circular and flawed.

We made our bed, now we have to lie in it. All animals have instincts, even 'man-made' ones, that should be followed. Hell, I don't even keep pets, I think the whole practice is debauched.

If you don't like killing animals, here's a tip, don't do it. Refuse to do it. Because you're obviously not doing them any favors with your two-faced guilt-trip excuse to make yourself feel better about the horrors of humanity.

Funny thing is, humans are animals too.
>> Anonymous
>>295274
You. Are. An. Idiot.
>> Anonymous
>>295274
what, in your expert estimation, should be done with the "excess" animals our society creats and then dumps? Please, I'm perfectly willing to listen to any solution you can offer. We end euthanasia today, right now, and still allow our dogs and cats to breed as "nature" dictates. Then what?
>> Anonymous
>>295279

Should have never created them in the first place.

I didn't say don't kill them, I told you to stop if you didn't like it. I don't know WHAT to do with them, I just know that they have instincts, and to keep them from those instincts is equally as bat-shit cruel. Maybe if humanity hadn't tried to play god with nature, we wouldn't find ourselves dealing with this bullshit in the first place.
>> Anonymous
>>295285
Your logic is convoluted, nonsensical, and based on the illogic that we shouldn't have created the problem, so we shouldn't control the problem we created. If you choose not to own pets, fine. If you choose to feel that human domestication of animals is an abomination, fine. But if you want to argue against spaying and neutering and proper humane husbandry and care, kindly sit on your fingers until you have a grasp of the issue at hand. Your stance of "we shouldn't have meddled in the affairs of animals, and now that we have, we should just let this unnatural man-made process proceed on it's suffering, blundering, destructive course" is ridiculous. Spaying and neutering removes hormones and removes hormonal drives, meaning no breeding "instinct."

And no, I don't like euthanizing scores of animals every day... but someone has to. And I know that when I do it, I do it as quickly and painlessly as possible, always with a scratch behind the ears or a kiss on the nose as the spark fades from their eyes.
>> Anonymous
>>295287

I never said anything about inaction. Holy shit.

Reading comprehension, anyone? I only said I DON'T KNOW what to do with them! Any modification of nature is wrong. Any of it. What authority do YOU have to say that animal you butcher with mindless surgery needs it? Deserves it? Do you just tell yourself it's a 'necessary evil'? I'll bet you say the same thing about euthanasia, if you do.

Everything living, breathing thing has a place in the order of things. Everything. I don't care what it's the product of. Again, we brought this about, we have to fix it, and the answer isn't killing every unwanted one that comes through the door.

The only logical fix I see is making it illegal to euthanize. Maybe THEN people will know boys and girls should be kept seperate unless you WANT kittens and a future burden on the population around.

I'm no hippy, but the fact that we willingly allow our hands to be soiled with outright mutilation and murder makes me want to puke.
>> Anonymous
>>295294

I should also add before I get flamed, I feel it coming, that the people who DO breed them should be fined for it. I suppose it's almost impossible to police, but I can't think of any other alternative.
>> Anonymous
>>295294
your stance is completely ridiculous. We ban euthanasia, and we are now stuck with 15 million MORE homeless animals each year. And your followup post re: banning breeding... yeah, because outlawing drunk driving worked so well, right? Your views are a perverse mix, aren't they? Let's leave things as nature intended, and yet strive for better living through legislation. Let's not humanely euthanize the world's suffering, unwanted animals, but instead perhaps warehouse them in kennels, to live out their lives in misery. Or perhaps you are of the opinion that they should all be released into the wild, where they can upset ecosystems they have no niche in, suffer, and die horribly?

Veterinary medicine and animal welfare for YEARS, Anon. Your solutions will solve nothing whatsoever.
>> Anonymous
>>295300

Your solution is also solving absolutely nothing. Aside from the fact it negates goddamn survival of the fittest (which is natural).

Which brings us to an impasse.

You can't bloody-well tell me domesticated animals aren't equipped for survival either. Housecats are some of the most deadly animals pound-for-pound, and dogs travel in packs for mutual security. I'm not the vapid idiot you seem to think I am, I'm well aware that random factors will destroy local ecosystems.

I advocate fully letting nature run her course, cruel as she may be. There's nothing merciful about any death, but at least the fucking blood won't be on your hands as an individual.

This earth is ours to destroy, and I don't have the answers or the tools to figure out how to prevent that best. I hope your stance helps you sleep better at night, considering you condone what is tantamount to murder.
>> Anonymous
>>295308
murder is a human concept founded in religious mores. Inapplicable to animals. You can say I KILL animals and be entirely correct. But murder? Nope. I say again, you have got some completely fucked up moral views, and debating with you is like discussing the issue with an idiot savant turnip. Good day.
>> Anonymous
Domestic animal populations should be controlled. Why? Because they have been born and bred to be taking care of largely by humans and chances are they would die otherwise. Cats are among the only domesticated species that can truly fend for itself in the wild, but they STILL hang out where humans converge, creating a health risk.

Domesticating animals in itself is "playing god". So if you're really so dead set against it then just toss your beloved pets out the window so you can sit and preen about how good of a person you are while some innocent kid gets rabies from your fucktarded morals. Otherwise shut the fuck up and fix your pets and stop contributing to a problem that's already wildly out of control.
>> Anonymous
>>295294
so you're against both spay/neuter and euthanasia? LLLOOOOOLLLLL!!!!!!!
>> Anonymous
The best "answer" to pet overpopulation is low cost or free spay/neuter clinics. Most people skip the snip because it's expensive and not technically nessesary, but they'd do it if it were cheaper.

Hey Peta/HSUS fags --- how about you stop making gay ass commercials and start funding low cost spay clinics??
>> Anonymous
You're all idiots overreacting.
Good day.
>> Anonymous
>Hey Peta/HSUS fags --- how about you stop making gay ass commercials and start funding low cost spay clinics??

Because that would actually be doing something. PETA just likes to troll.
>> Anonymous
>>295430
PETA is so ridiculous I can't even make myself believe that they're an actual organization and not a giant trollfest.
>> Anonymous
I own 3 male black cats plus one female gray.
One black male is almost 10 years old and comes in and out whenever he wants.

The two younger males are around 3 yrs and do the same. The gray one rarely goes outside. She's about 5

They all hunt birds and rabbits in our quite neighborhood. There's no fences and it's full of huge trees.

I assume they only come back for food and blankets.
>> Anonymous
>>295445
Well, they shouldnt be an organization. Any other entity that is $100 million in debt would have ceased to exist long ago. I attribute their survival to Satan, or some other evil deity.
>> Anonymous
>>295376
cheap/free spay and neuter, yes, but that's only half the solution. The other half? EDUCATION. Spread the word, enlighten those who are unaware of the overpopulation crisis. Every litter you help prevent is thousands of animals that won't burden the system, and therefore more animals saved.
>> Anonymous
>>295470
isn't it wonderful when we allow are man-made predatory species roam in an already unbalanced ecosystem, preying on native wildlife, filling a niche that doesn't exist? As if human overpopulation and urban sprawl aren't killing off enough species, we then upset the balance more by allowing cats outdoors. FANTASTIC!
>> Anonymous
>>295914
(self spellbot) our*
>> Anonymous
Holy crap, my fire-and-forget post spawned a shitstorm.

Yes, I was kind of trolling in>>294647, but from the heart. I'm someone who doesn't own cats and doesn't d'aww at cute neighbor cats sitting outside my window at night and wailing for stray toms to fuck them, getting into loud catfights, or killing the babies of the cardinals that nest in my crepe myrtle every fucking year.

I like cats, but I don't own one. I shouldn't have to put up with their more annoying tendencies (above, plus shit buried in my garden). Letting your cats roam is just plain inconsiderate. I'm not a total asshole and won't do it, but I definitely see why some people might leave poisoned cat food out.

Not to mention it's better for the cats. If you think it's awesome for your cats to eat live food, just buy feeder mice for them so you can watch them torture the poor things to death in the safety of your own home. No risk of parasites or poisoning or getting mauled by a dog or shot by someone less tolerant than I am.
>> Anonymous
>>295920just buy feeder mice for them so you can watch them torture the poor things to death in the safety of your own home.

Torture? Being that we humans are animals too, I find it ridiculous to think that anything an animal does on instinct could possibly be torture. What gives us the right to judge what an animal should and should not do?
>> Anonymous
>>295923
jesus... are you the same anti-spay and neuter moron from last night? Instincts of an introduced predator (domesticated dogs and cats) should not be allowed to impact ecosystems already in crisis. Perhaps the poster mentioning "torture" WAS a bit out of line, but domesticated cats ARE notorious for "playing with their food" when it comes to their predatory behavior... not exactly a clean kill, and not humane.
>> Anonymous
>>295923
I call it like I see it. I made no judgement concerning the morality of how cats kill their prey - they have nowhere near the intelligence to comprehend the concept of morality. They do it because it's what they do, instinctual, amoral.

It's still killing something slowly because it enjoys doing so.
>> Anonymous
>>295926

Who? I haven't read this whole thread. In that light, I'm not going to.

Anyway, for some reason I highly doubt a cat even knows why it's playing with it's food, nevermind enjoying it. It just does it. Even if it does, it's just doing what it happens to do.

It's programmed for it, if you will. It's probably not a good idea to project human standards onto other animals, though, because they couldn't possibly comprehend them.
>> Anonymous
>>295936
Animals may not be sentient, but they do have preferences. If they like doing something, they do it. It's an insult to the intelligence they do have to say that everything they do is because they're wired that way. Their preferences are assuredly based on instinct at least in part, but I wouldn't say that cats are zoned out on instinct-autopilot 24/7.

Saying that cats don't enjoy toying with their prey is like saying retrievers don't enjoy playing fetch. Sure, it's instinctual. They still enjoy it.
>> Anonymous
Just because they cant talk, that doesnt mean they cant think or feel.
>> Anonymous
I would love one of those window boxes. My cat loves to go outside, but she's EXTREMELY territorial and ends up fighting any other cat that so much as looks at her from 20 feet away. We used to let her out all the time when we lived in town, too, because she knew better than to run off with the fences.
However, now that we live in the country, she has 160 acres of free range, coyotes, a road right next to the property, hawks, eagles, and other cats.
It's sat, because our outside strays just want to be friends =\ My cat is a bitch though.

Aside from running away and fighting, she tends to get fleas and worms when she goes outside.
>> Anonymous
You continuously rant and rave about instinct and letting nature take it's course and how we humans made our bed and must lie in it.

If we are humans, it is our instinct to preserve what we have, humans, being animals, are therefore following the course of OUR nature, our instinct says "we don't like change in our habitats that are out of our control so lets fix it."

Following instinct would be just slitting the little fuckers throats and being done with it. I have two cats, love both of them. The male we own is fixed however the female isn't (due to heart palpitations they said putting her under was a bad idea as she might not wake up) and we didn't want to take the risk. Both stay inside and live a very happy life.

We were given the right to play god with these animals lives the day (thousands of years) we engineered them to be what they are today. If you have a problem with the way things are done try to change it. Simply saying "I don't like how stuff is being done, it needs to stop, oh but by the way, I can't offer up any alternative just simply saying it makes me feel bad." is not only irresponsible in a debate but makes you a deplorable human being in my eyes.

You say we made this bed and must lie in it is so stupid. We made the problem and we must correct it. We ARE correcting it through spaying/neutering and keeping our unspayed/unneutered ones indoors where they can't fuck and make baby cats.