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Anonymous
Hi there.

I bought a fishtank / stand yesterday, and my initial thought was to use it to make a reef. However, then I realised the true cost involved in that, and after changing my pants and scrubbing the floor with a powerful disinfectant decided to go for a Freshwater Tropical community. Every different site and shop i've gone to conflicts with what they say I should be doing. It's a 60 litre ( 14 gallon) tank, I already have all the accessories, and have set it up and am letting it do the cycle for a week or two before buying any fish.

The main problem I have is that with these conflicting sources I have no idea of what will live with what, how many fish I can have in this tank, what temperature I need to set it to etc. The main fish that have stuck out to me so far are:

Giant betta (purple)
Butterfly Pleco
Short finned Molly
Angelfish?
Sunshine Peacock
Frants Child Peacock
Electric Yellow cichlid
Blue Neon Cichlid

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>> Anonymous
Betas can be wonderful peaceful fish. I have one in a 50 gal full of platties, cherry barbs, and catfish. You shouldn't stick them in a tank with fish that have fancy fins, like angel fish. It will make them territorial and aggressive. That's what I've always been told anyway.

A testament to how laid back the Beta is - the platties keep having babies and he doesn't seem to be eating any. They swim up to him and he just kind of looks at them and looks away. He's the laziest fish ever, but I'm so glad we put him in the tank. He really adds a lot of personality to it.

Good luck with your tank!
>> Anonymous
typically it's 1 gallon per inch of fish. But for big fish such as angels the size changes. Stick with the Bettas, and cichlids.

Temp is various for all fish, but most should live at around 78 F.

And I like having a school of top dwelling fish, mid, and bottom.

Corydoras are a nice bottom dwelling fish, but they need to be in schools, so it really kills your fish space limit.
>> Anonymous
>>298751
>Giant betta (purple)
Great choice
>Short finned Molly
Eh, you can't have very many and some get like 4-6 inches long
>Angelfish?
Maybe one or two for a couple months til they get too big...an adult angel is the size of a dinner plate

Look at neon tetras, cardinal tetras, almost any tetra, "micro rasboras"/"dwarf rasboras, harliquin rasboras, otocinclus, dwarf chain loaches, dwarf cory catfish, dwarf gourami, sparkling/croaking gourami, licorice gourami, a pair of german blue rams would be fucking awesome, a little harem of any apistograma sp. would be fucking sweet as well.
The last two where cichlids, apparently you like them...look at Alto compressiceps, and the Alto calvus, they stay pretty small and grow so fucking slow it doesnt matter, and the calvus have like 4 color variations.
A little trio of one of the dwarf shell dwelling cichlids like Neo. brevis would be fucking amazing as hell too.

Everything else on your list sucked balls cuase of size/temperment/etc...

Also I'm fairly sure Frants Child Peacock is made up..unless you mean Grant's peacock...which most people call a stuartgranti FYI

And butterfly pleco could mean about 100 things, some of which get over a foot.
>> Anonymous
All fantastic help so far, thanks :)
>> Anonymous
I want to lick the balls of your fish
>> Anonymous
Definitely don't get an angelfish if you plan on having many other smaller fish in the same tank. They can be aggressive and territorial, and can grow pretty damn big.
>> Anonymous
You can't put cichlids in a tank that small. Cichlids, even small ones, require a lot more space to avoid agression.
>> Anonymous
>>298821
They could start with probably 2 or 3 small cichlids. I started two Black Convicts in a 10 gallon, and they stayed in there for about 5 months until we got a 75 gallon.
Yes, it's supposed to be a gallon per inch, but they won't die if it's not like that. Fish are fragile, but they aren't that fragile.
In the 75 gallon, we eventually had 3 Jaguar Cichilds, 6 Black Convicts, 5 various Malawi Cichilds, 1 Pleco, 2 Corys, and 1 Rapheal Catfish. The Jags were about 5 inches each, the Convicts about 4.
They all got along, despite all being from different areas. Each had a section of the tank, and our only problems were the male Convicts fighting one another over the only female in there to mate with.
>> Anonymous
75 gallon? I thought a 10 gallon cost alot!
>> Anonymous
Assuming you don't plan on upgrading, this is my opinion:

>Giant betta (purple)
Bettas are really cool fish to have, but let me tell you that a real purple strain of betta hasn't been developed yet, the "purples" you see are going to be more of a pink or blue/red rather than true purple.
>Butterfly Pleco
Probably not, a lot of plecos get WAY too big for a 15 gal. Not sure what specific species you're talking about.
>Short finned Molly
Mollies are nice, but it would be a molly-exclusive tank, as you can't cram more than a few of them in there, and they like to school.
>Angelfish?
No way. Angelfish get way too big, in my opinion, they need space as well.
>Sunshine Peacock
Too small, you need at least 40g to house one.
>Frants Child Peacock
No idea what this is, but it's probably too big to be comfortable, I'm assuming it's a cichlid.
>Electric Yellow cichlid
Would recommend getting at least a 25 gallon for this guy.
>Blue Neon Cichlid
Same as above.
>> Anonymous
>>298896
OP, if you want any of those fish (short of the betta and the mollies), just invest now in a 55 gallon tank. Making a malawi cichlid tank would be pretty badass (never had one, but the pictures I see are fantastic--cichlids are so brightly colored).

Or, if you want angelfish, I would say either get a single angelfish in a 55g, or 4+. The reason is that angelfish beat the shit out of eachother if kept in a single (unmated) pair, and if you have 3, you risk 2 of them pairing off and then dominating the entire tank and killing your third one. Four is a "safe" number, 6 is usually preferred to spread out aggression.
>> Anonymous
The irritating thing is that the investment isn't a problem, it's just space. I had to re-arrange everything to get the 10gal in, I'd absolutely love something as big as a 55gal+ but to do that I'd basically have to get rid of a wardrobe or a sofa
>> Anonymous
>>298904
Ah. Well, I'd say, go for the betta to start out with, then start researching smaller fish. Listen to>>298766also. Just remember to not combine longfinned fish with bettas, nor cichlids, nor gouramis. Also avoid barbs, because they will nip your betta to death.
>> Anonymous
Another question sorry, is there any sort of universal temperature that "tropical" should be set to, or will I have to select a group of fish that all live in a similar couple of degrees?
>> Anonymous
>>298919
78F is generally a safe temperature. Most tropical fish are pretty hardy, and don't mind their temperature to be off a bit, as long as you keep it under 84 degrees and above 70.

Of course, it depends on the fish... I'm assuming you're not trying to raise Discus or anything, so specific temperature degrees aren't as important.
>> Anonymous
No, nothing too special.

I have to say, this is more useful than any of the sites I've been reading. Thanks alot. I'll keep checking back to this thread
>> Anonymous
>>298950
As a cool tip, when you get fish, keep their diet varied. Dry foods (flake, freezedried, pellets etc.) is good enough by itself as long as you switch up the kinds, but it's also fun to try feeding your fish stuff like frozen foods (frozen brine shrimp and bloodworms have a higher protein/fat content than dried food, and make a yummy snack for your fish). Live food is even better, just make sure to wash it thoroughly. There are a lot of sites out there with instructions for proper live food usage.

Also, you can feed your fish vegetables! I love doing this, personally. It depends on what kind of fish you have. Since I don't have large algae growth in my otoclinus tank, I chop up courgette zucchini and blanch romaine lettuce for them. My corydoras get those, plus cucumbers, and I'm planning on trying to feed them carrots soon. The cutest thing about that is the cories don't like the skin of the courgette, and just nibble out the middle of it, leaving a tidy little green ring.

If you get a betta, feed him shelled peas. The frozen kind works well--just shell the pea with your fingernail, then cut it up into bite size pieces and drop it in. Peas serve as a laxative for them, so once-a-week pea feedings helps their digestive tract a lot. Bettas are very prone to constipation, which is uncomfortable, as I'm sure a lot of people know..
>> Anonymous
Won't pouring a bag of bloodworm in really pollute the water though?

I've been reading about letting the filter "learn" what to be filtering and what not to be. I've been running it for about 48 hours now, and put a pinch of food in the empty tank as reccomended to let it "learn" the bacteria, which I still don't really understand. Is there anything else I should be doing for that?
>> Anonymous
Rinse the bag out first and put the worms in individually. at least that's what I do
>> Anonymous
Ok guys, all the readings said the water was pretty safe, so I picked up a couple of hardy ones. I got a male fighter, 2 guppys and 2 ghost shrimps to clean up. How long do you think I should leave my next "arrival" of fish, and what would be a good compliment to my current stock?
>> Anonymous
if you want color go with malawi cichlids
easy to care for, breed like niggers, and are always doing something
>> Anonymous
>>298751
Am I just hungry or do those stones look like potatoes?
>> Anonymous
>>300594
They do, but I am also hungry.
>> Anonymous
>>299578

Keep an eye on your water parameters. You should see a spike in ammonia levels now that you have fish, watch for it to drop back to safe levels, then add more fish. Be prepared to have a lot of guppies in the near future.
>> Anonymous
I now have:

2 Guppies
1 Siamese Fighting fish
1 Hoplos Catfish
2 Royal Rams
2 Lavaeyes
2 ghost shrimp.
4 neons

The guy in the shop reccomended sticking to this for about 2 months before possibly adding another shoal, to let them acclimatise the water
>> Anonymous
>>300896
See, the difference between your pet store and /an/ is that we're not trying to sell you anything. Did someone really recommend you a Hoplos catfish?

According to this ->http://aqualandpetsplus.com/Catfish,%20Hoplo.htm
A Hoplos is going to get like six inches and would rather school.. did that guy really tell you to put one of those in a 14g?
>> Anonymous
Urgh, he said they don't get more than 4 inches. The things only about two thirds of an inch long now, it's absolutely adorable and gives loads of character to the tank. I might have to look at upgrading to a bigger tank in a couple of months it seems. What about the other fish in there, are they ok?
>> Anonymous
>>300960
Yeah, your fish dude is a fucking moron. Your tank is almost at full capacity with all that shit in there. A full tank cycle takes at least 6 weeks: http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm
Read that and inform yourself. Also, do away with some of the fish before they all die because of the huge ammonia spike incoming.

And what exactly are some of the things in the tank? I'm assuming the "royal rams" are some sort of dwarf cichlid. They need more space than a 14g--even though they are a "dwarf", that doesn't mean you can house them properly in anything less than a 20g, especially two of them. No idea what a "lava eye" is.

I would say, go ahead and return most of the stuff. I recommend either keeping the 2 guppies+the betta or the 4 tetras. Stop listening to the bullshit spewing from the petstore guy, and research on the internet before you get balls deep in an aquarium. More often than not, the stuff the employees at fish stores say is wrong, and only aimed to get you to buy their fish.
>> Anonymous
>>300896
If those guppies have pretty fins, kiss them goodbye. The Betta (siamese fighting fish) will fucking rip the shit out of them.
>> Anonymous
The betta seems a bit of a miserable shit so far. He just lurks in the corner behind the reeds and pops out when there's food. I've spent ages watching though and i'm positive there's no fin-nipping going on. Are they just emo fish?
>> Anonymous
>>301300
Naturally in the wild, bettas live underneath reed/plant cover. It gives them a sense of security from predators and shit. He might also feel nervous around so many other fish, it'll probably take him a bit to get used to it and realize there's nothing to be afraid of.
>> Anonymous
Hmm, the bettas just died. Quite strange really, it was tucked away in a corner yesterday and not moving, and I thought it had died so went to remove it, and it shot off when I was near and turned out to be fine. I just presumed it had been lurking.

This morning when I woke up and put the tank light on, I noted all the fish were swimming around and looked fine and healthy, the Betta came swimming out his hide-hole and started doing his usual patrol for food. I went upstairs for a shave, came down and he was dead :/ Is it just me or is that a bit abrupt for a fish to die?
>> Anonymous
>>302300
Did you look at his body? Have you researched tropical fish diseases? Bettas are pretty prone to a lot of them. He probably had some internal problem, ie parasites. Were his scales pineconed, did he have fluffy white patches, did he have open sores or puffy eyes etc etc.

Although it seems strange that the labyrinth fish would die first, do you still have that plethora of fish in your tank? If more start dropping, it's probably due to ammonia poisoning. Look at the area near&behind his gills--is it discolored? Usually when fish die of ammonia/nitrite poisoning, the area around their gills turns into a light to dark brown. You might want to look for this on your other fish, and watch carefully for any strange behavior, such as fish gasping for air and flopping around in the water, as these are good tipoffs that your tank is overcrowded.
>> Anonymous
>>302300
did you add nondeclorinated tap water? Most fish can handle a little chlorine...or at least it kills them slower...but bettas drop dead near instantanious from it
>> Anonymous
I had treated and "de"everything, and he doesn't have any signs of ich or discolour around the gills, it was literally a case of one minute being fine, the next dropping dead.

I'm starting to wonder if it might have been stress from the male guppy, He's also bolting around chasing the female, and I presumed it was courtship stuff until I noticed him doing it to one of the lava eyes before. Maybe he'd been tormenting the betta when I wasn't looking, I really have no idea.
>> Anonymous
Why hadn't I heard of giant bettas before? I thought that would be awesome since I was a little kid and now they exist.
>> Anonymous
Out of interest, is it usual for my male Guppy to charge at every fish in the tank, regardless of size?

Also I'm pretty sure the little shit has eaten one of my Ghost shrimps.
>> Anonymous
no one has mentioned how frail bettas are at the stores. i'm sure you got the best looking one, probably one of the strongest, but it's still been sitting in a cup for a long time. what kind of filtration does your tank have? is there a current? that could cause severe stress to a long-finned fish that's used to inhabiting a cup.

you really need to take a bunch of those fish back before you have a disaster on your hands. lava eye? royal ram? i don't know what they are, but i don't trust them. the guppies are obviously troublesome. it may be hard to resist getting all the fish you want, but getting them one at a time is essential for clean water and to help you see how they interact. right now, any number of things could've killed the betta. who knows if it was the water, tank conditions, or one of the four or five different kinds of fish that did him in.
>> Anonymous
>>303893
I don't think OP is really taking any of the advice that has been given to him, because I already gave him similar instruction, which was dutifully ignored.