File :-(, x, )
Anonymous
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=UB99LMOwVuE
:3
>> Anonymous
I hope they get run over and die a slow and painful death. I fucking hate cats.
>> Anonymous
Why would anyone HATE cats?
>> Anonymous
>>261092
They don't do anything, they stink up the house, they are unfriendly, they cost a lot more to take care of than dogs, you can't take them out for hikes, etc.

They are disgusting vile animals.
>> Anonymous
>>261101
i've had my cat for 7 years and he's always following me around, he's extremely affectionate and loves to sleep on my lap

he's like my little co-pilot :D
>> Anonymous
>>261103
I've had my dog for 14. I love him. He's still active and can go hiking with me.

I have a puppy who is now six months old. I love her too. She can go with me for miles at a time.

My sister has a cat. It's fat, lazy, spills water everywhere, makes the basement smell like shit, meows all night, and scratches at people until you have to throw it off.

Fucking cats, I hate them so much.
>> Anonymous
>>261101
I've never had a cat wasn't affectionate. Between me and my family growing up, I've had seven cats altogether, and they were all playful and affectionate.

Stink up the house? How? Cats keep themselves clean and if you clean their litterbox, thar be no smell.

In what way do they cost more than dogs? Their vet treatments aren't more expensive... flea/tick treatments are cheaper than for dogs... the only extra expense I can think of is cat litter, and that shit is cheap.
>> Anonymous
>>261108
With their shit and piss smell. Whenever they get in or out of their box they kick a bunch of shit filled litter all over the place.

They scratch up furniture, knock their water tower over (which even with a mattress still gets all over our wooden floor), and so on.

Our five year old cat got declawed recently. A few days ago we bought a new seven thousand dollar couch and the first thing that damn thing does is start to bite it while we're away. Now one of the corners is ruined.
>> Anonymous
>>261111

I think they just hate you.
>> Anonymous
wtf is up with tehir ears?
>> Anonymous
>>261111
it did that because you fucking declawed it.

cats are vindictive.
>> Anonymous
>>261126
So it waited for us to get rid of the old couch... THEN it decided to get revenge? Unlikely.
>> Anonymous
>>261131
You surgically removed a part of their paw, I would be pissed as hell too if someone did that to me. I hope he bites you in the crotch while you sleep.
>> Anonymous
>>261131
If you'd done any research into the lasting effects of declawing, you would have learned that because they can no longer use their claws, cats are much, much more prone to biting. It's not the cat's fault that you're a fucking idiot.
>> Anonymous
>>261153
I didn't do anything, my sister did. It's not my cat, if it was up to me I'd put it to sleep with my car.

>>261154
I didn't do any research because it's not my cat to take care of. I loathe the thing and would put it down with my car if I could.

Explain to me why it waited so long before it began biting just that one couch. And while you're at it, what makes you think I'm an idiot?
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
A cat in my neighborhood likes to hang around my cars
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
>> Anonymous
lol silly trollan. No one can truly hate cats.
>> Anonymous
>>261225
The fact that you're coming up with lame excuses for hating cats.
>> Anonymous
dogfag here

why the hell cats like to smell car's underneath?

inb4 go ask a cat
>> Anonymous
>>261240
So none of the things I mentioned bother you?

You wouldn't have a problem having to replace a seven thousand dollar couch?
>> Anonymous
>>261111
the cat obviously hates you for being a prick. serves you right!!
>> Anonymous
why is that black and mullato cat stealing hubcaps?
>> Anonymous
>>261258
FUCK, I lol'd. ?_?
>> Anonymous
>>261242
Who the fuck pays seven thousand dollars for a couch?
>> Anonymous
>>261284
People who want an extremely comfortable couch and can afford it.

The thing is a dream.
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
dogs aren't so great either
>> Anonymous
Dogs can actually kill people. Your stinking, redneck couch is nothing. Get the fuck out you piece of trailer trash.
>> Anonymous
thread is shit
both cats and dogs smell and have behavior issues
>> Anonymous
>>261292

they smell with their nose
>> Anonymous
This is a new and exciting thread.
>> Anonymous
>>261289
Dogs can kill people. Most don't. Cars can kill people. Most don't.

Just because something can kill doesn't make it bad.

How many rednecks do you know that own a $7k couch?
>> Anonymous
>>261298
And cats don't kill people. Ever. Since you have issues understanding that, you ARE a fucking redneck. Congratulations on your pa finding an oil well behind your redneck shanty, billy bob. Too bad you're stupid enough to blow it all on a 7 grand couch.

Redneck morons ; the downfall of USA.
>> Anonymous
>>261298
You're a spoilt idiot who spent his daddy's money on a 7k couch. You may not be a redneck but you are sure as hell goddamn stupid.

Which causes whatever point you make to be invalid. Deal imo.
>> Anonymous
>>261309
Cats won't protect you in a fight. They won't make noise when a stranger breaks into your home. They won't act as a deterrent. Etc, etc.

Cars an absolutely amazing tool, but they kill. Walking never killed anyone... but cars are still better.

My dad is a marine biologist, my mom a chemistry professor, and I'm an intern at Lilly. What does your family do?
>> Anonymous
>>261310
My parents bought the couch, I didn't buy it. What makes you think I'm stupid?

Also, someone being stupid doesn't make their arguments invalid. Just because someone is brilliant doesn't make their arguments valid either.
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
>>261313
>>261315
Just a troll, people. Move along. Also, sage this stupid thread.
>> Anonymous
>>261313
HURR HURR DIFFERENT PETS HAVE DIFFERENT USES. Who woulda thunk it? Oh wait, we were talking about the bad stuff weren't we? Good job at dodging the issue, hillbilly.

Cats still have yet to kill people. I'm pretty damn satisfied with that. I'd rather have a "useless" cat than a temperamental rottweiler who is 45% at risk to tear someone to pieces and land me in a court.

And if we want to start lying around here, my dad's a major shareholder in Microsoft and my mom is a director of Body shop.
>> Anonymous
>>261315
Considering you're obviously too stupid to argue the issues at hand, dodging about the issue, completely avoiding it and adding irrelevant bullshit to the argument, I gotta say yes intelligence plays a pretty damn big part. At least in this instance.
>> Anonymous
>>261317
>>261318
Congratulations, you got trolled. Idiots abound on /an/ nowadays.
>> Anonymous
>>261313
The majority of dogs that people buy these days, especially the kind of people who buy $7k couches, don't do any of those things.
>> Anonymous
cats steal breath from babies
>> Anonymous
>>261320
Well, it IS summer.
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
>>261321
That's a good burn, boyo.
>> Anonymous
>>261320
How am I being trolled? I'm just arguing against an idiot.
>> Anonymous
>>261317
Okay, so cats don't kill people. Address the other issues at hand. Like their destroying furniture, smelling bad, and all those other things.

Don't forget about the original issues that were mentioned, now address that.

My dogs play well with children, adults, seniors, and all others. They don't smell. They don't destroy my furniture. They don't do anything bad.

Guess what dogs my family has... a $100 Golden Retriever / Husky mix I rescued from the pound, a Shih Tzu, an Alaskan Malamute, and an Akita.

Perfect dogs, all of them.

None of them have ever even snapped at me. Hell, none of them even try to grab treats from my hands when I offer them.

Our cat? It pisses in shoes, gets more fur around than my dogs, etc. It's a disgusting vile creature.

>>261318
What issues should I be arguing?

How about you address what I mentioned earlier?
>> Anonymous
>>261328
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand my cats have never done ANY of those shit you just said. Oh what now? Are you going to start arguing that your personal experience is more valid than mine?

On the other hand, again based on MY personal experience, I've seen dogs snap and bark loudly at people who don't fucking do anything. They didn't even go near them. I've even seen little kids being chased by dogs FOR NO. FUCKING. REASON.

What now? Are you going to be obstinate and repetitive and keep listing down what your cats have been doing? Even though others here have pointed out that their cats are obedient and affectionate? Oh here's a protip:

You might be an unpleasant, moronic jackass. The cats probably don't like you. Hell, many of us posting in this thread can already feel the angst and negative vibe from you...OVER AN IMAGE DUMP. I pity your cats.
>> Anonymous
>>261328
Trolling 101, people. Watch.

Okay, so dogs can do tricks. Address the other issues at hand. Like their destroying newspaper on your porch, smelling bad, and all those other things.

Don't forget about the original issues that were mentioned, now address that.

My cats play well with children, adults, seniors, and all others. They don't smell. They don't destroy my furniture. They don't do anything bad.

Guess what cats my family has... a $100 Persian cat I rescued from the pound, Scottish fold, an Abyssinian, and a Siamese.

Perfect cats, all of them.

None of them have ever even snapped at me. Hell, none of them even try to grab treats from my hands when I offer them.

Our dog? It tears up the newspaper sent every morning, chew the sandals, etc. It's a disgusting vile creature.

---

There you have it, folks.
>> Anonymous
>>261331
I realize that not all cats are like the that pig disgusting creature that lives here.

I have a hard time believing those vile pieces of shit are really affectionate at all though. Dogs on the other hand actually love people.

Those poor dogs you've seen were probably mistreated or were born with disorders which caused them to act that way.
Okay, so the cats don't like me. What about the rest of my family? Or the guests we have? Maybe cats are just pieces of shit.
>> Anonymous
>>261333
100% of killers are bad people. 100% of christians are bad people.

Just because you change x to y doesn't make the x argument invalid. Lrn2logic
>> Anonymous
>>261335
You obviously have deep-seated issues with cats. Sorry, but your judgment on them is null and void. I'd stop talking if I were you.

And you and your family most probably failed at treating the cat right and training it properly. The fault is not on the poor thing ; it's on the morons "taking care of it". I may not be a dog person, but when a dog misbehaves the first one I blame is its owner, not the dog. Then again, I'm smart enough to do that.
>> MiMi
>>261111

Don't care if I'm being trolled.
If you/your sister don't want a couch scratched, you must provide the cat with ample appropriate surfaces to scratch instead. The cat bit that particular couch (seconding opinion on 7k couches, btw, you pretentious idiot) because it was new, and had none of his smell on it. He was attempting to remedy that.

>With their shit and piss smell. Whenever they get in or out of their box they kick a bunch of shit filled litter all over the place.

Right, cause your shit, or your dog's shit, doesn't stink at all, amirite? If you didn't clean the dogshit out of your backyard, your backyard would soon smell like shit. A leads to B which leads to C, dumbass. As for the litter, if a cat digs vigorously, provide a higher-sided, or just plain covered litterbox. What do you know, problem solved. A covered litterbox also greatly reduces unpleasant ammonia odor.
>> Anonymous
>>261335
The same can be said about one or the other. In other words, you treated your cat like shit, you son of a bitch.
>> Anonymous
>>261336
Hella ironic that you're telling people to "l2logic" when you yourself fail HORRIBLY at it. Not only are you narrow-minded, you're obstinate and pretty much lack the capacity to understand and learn. If anything, the cat probably learned that from you.

I changed x to y and it does apply because you're only basing it on your personal experience. MY, and other cat lovers', experience differ from yours. You however, keep trying to canonize your opinions and experience as factual evidence whereas we do not. This is why people say you are trolling. Nobody can be this dense.
>> Anonymous
>>261337
Null and void? Why?

So... every cat I've ever come across has had a bad owner? I find it hard to believe that some 20 or 30 people (at least) that I've met are bad cat owners. I've yet to see one good cat.

>>261338
How about a play pen, two scratching posts, and all the other shit we have in our house that it's used in the past?

I flush, problem solved. My dogs have a good diet and we take care of our lawn. Problem solved. The cat's shit and piss makes the house smell almost instantly.

We have a pretty big litter box and it has a door on it. It still manages to get it's shit out of the box... and that's not taking into account the litter stuck on to its disgusting fur.
>> Anonymous
>>261342
Show me a logical error of mine and I'll quit posting.

I'll give you five minutes. If you don't have something by then you should quit posting.
>> MiMi
If a cat snaps, swipes at, scratches, or bites anyone/everyone without provocation, it's feeling threatened in some way that YOU simply are not aware of. Most often this is in the form of territory impingement, and in your case this is backed up by the new couch. You think "new couch smell", your cat thinks "WTF my house isn't mine anymore!"

If the cat is still incredibly stand-offish and even aggressive, chances are your ignorant sister didn't socialize it during the proper times during its kittenhood. If you don't socialize a dog, it may love YOU because you are its "pack-leader" and it's preprogrammed to do so, but it can still be extremely aggressive toward other dogs, animals, and small children, or even just a completely nonthreatening person walking on the other side of the street, nowhere near your dog, his territorial border, or you.

>They don't do anything, they stink up the house, they are unfriendly, they cost a lot more to take care of than dogs, you can't take them out for hikes,

Lazy cat is lazy. Unsocialized cat is unsocialized. Stupid pet owner is stupid. And with proper socialization and training, your cat most certainly can come with you camping and on hikes, provided he's been vaccinated beforehand properly.
>> Nikolev
My cat is crazy: Is a beatifull siames, playfull and lovely, but suddenly he gets crazy and bites, besides now he only comes to the house when he whants.

So? if he start scraching my furniture i dont let him, he dont piss wherever he whant, if he is been a asshole i, again, dont let him, if he see a rat he kill it in less that a minute or even snakes, he even follow me all the way when i go to walk.

Yes he is a crazy son of a bitch but i love him anyways. And i dont going to hate cats just because i have a crazy one.
>> Anonymous
>>261343
Or you're full of shit. Now you're pulling things out of your ass. First it was about your cat, now it's about 20-30 people you've supposedly "met". Well hell, if we wanna play that game, I've seen thousands of strays. Both cats and dogs. And the latter always tries to bite people.

You really don't have an argument. In fact you sound like a spoilt brat who argues for the sake of arguing without any substance. That "7k couch" bullshit, if anything, reinforces this notion.
>> Anonymous
ANIMALS.
SERIOUS BUSINESS.
>> Anonymous
>>261346
I'll take my time. No spoilt brat is going to order me around.

I already pointed out that you have, throughout this argument, tried to canonize your opinions and facts. But I guess you're just too illiterate to notice that. Thanks for proving the other guy's point on you being a redneck.
>> Anonymous
>>261350
You haven't had 30 friends in your life?
>> Anonymous
>>261353
So you can't provide any logical errors of mine? Can you recognize logical errors?
>> MiMi
>>261343
>So... every cat I've ever come across has had a bad owner? I find it hard to believe that some 20 or 30 people (at least) that I've met are bad cat owners. I've yet to see one good cat.

I have no problem at all believing this. I'm sorry you're in an area whose residents are similarly ignorant on how to care for a cat as you are, but places like that do exist. I've seen entire towns that are DOIN IT RONG, and when provided with correct information, say "NO -UR- DOIN IT RONG" and simply refuse to believe that if you treat a cat differently than they do, the 'cat problems' will disappear or at the least, lessen significantly.

Give me any problem you've ever seen with a cat. I will tell you why it happened, and how to start remedying the situation - or you can pass it onto the cat owners, since you apparently don't like them.
>> Anonymous
>>261354
Where'd this come from? You a moron or something? Did I say about it being impossible to meet 20-30 people? Good God.

>>261355
Pretending to be dense? Trying to canonize your opinions as facts is already a logical error on its own. But I guess you're just trying to piss people off so I'll play along. HURR HURR
>> Anonymous
>>261359
Dragging shit out of their boxes.
>> Anonymous
My cat is absolutely devoted to me. Sleeps on my lap at every possible moment, hides in my blankets at night, follows me around the house and meows in fear if I take a shower.

Right now she's walking back and forth on my lap and purring.

Strangers? She glares at them, swats them if they try to pet her, and tries to sit on me if I talk to them. XD
>> MiMi
     File :-(, x)
>>261351
I lol'd. And then I was all <--.

It are srs bsns on 4chan, friend. Always. SOMEONE IS ALWAYS WRONG ... ON THE INTERNET.
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
>>261355
Are you...like...pretending to be stupid? This is a pretty damn good troll if I ever saw one.
>> Anonymous
>>261365
Show me a logical error or stfu. You have nothing, you're just arguing to argue.
>> Anonymous
>>261372
What post was it? What's the name of the logical error?
>> Anonymous
>>261372
Better yet, show me the argument with a quote and show me what was wrong either the argument form/structure or content.
>> MiMi
>>261361

Do you mean that you've found shit outside the litterbox - and if so, close or far? Or do you mean that you've actually sat and watched a cat grasp, pull, and dump a peice of its shit out of the box, and onto the floor?

If you've just found litter/shit outside the box in significant amounts, most likely it thinks the box is not clean enough. If it is clean to your standards, try emptying the entire thing, washing with diluted vinegar or grapeseed oil, air-drying, and replacing with fresh litter. If it still persists, try replacing the box. If the box is new and you have multiple cats, get another litterbox and put it in a different area.

If you've observed the cat seemingly pulling shit out of the box, get a BoodaDome or Booda CleanStep, or a CleverCat litterbox - a box which is entirely covered will help the cat leave the poo where it drops, if not help it keep the litter and poo contained when digging.

One of my cats doesn't cover her poo, because Mommy apparently wasn't there to teach her. She tries, but doesn't dig. She only scrapes the sides of the box like a mime.
>> Anonymous
Man, catfags sure can get defensive.

I myself have never owned a cat, and once owned a dog; but I've never met a malicious dog from a good home, yet it seems there's a sizable minority of cats that just plain don't care for people.

What's more, some catfags have agreed with this on other occasions. How many times have we read the "I've got 4 cats, 1 of whom doesn't like to be touched" post? Yet when some anon starts bitching about somebody else's malicious cat he get practically accused of idiocy and animal abuse.
>> Anonymous
>>261377
Inference. Have you heard of it?

Tell me, what logical error is that? I'd like the name of the error or where you found it please.
>> MiMi
>>261376
'Scuse me. I meant "grapefruit seed extract".
>> Anonymous
>>261376
I've noticed it do it before and move it to corners, under couches, behind the TV, etc.

It has closed box with a doggy door type exit.
>> Anonymous
>>261379there's a sizable minority of cats that just plain don't care for people

For the most devoted of cat lovers, loner cats are proof of the cat's winning personality.

I mean to say, the most devoted of cat lovers hate people too.
>> MiMi
>>261379
Re-socializing a cat is a process that takes time and patience, something that most people don't have enough of either of in order to be willing to solve a problem .. provided that it really is a problem. Aloof cats are different from problem cats, and problem cats are what we're discussing. Or I am, anyway, haha.

If a cat does not like being touched, resocialization is what's needed, and is more than possible, because I guarantee you that the kitty wasn't properly socialized when young. That may or may not be the owner's fault, depending on what the history of that particular cat was.

>>261385
Are you absolutely sure that it wasn't just stuck to its paws? Cats with longer fur often get poo stuck to not only their hind end, but their paws, and litter between the toes because of the long hair we've bred them to have. The tendency to go in confined or more enclosed spaces tells me that the cat is trying to hide the poo - not from you, but from other cats and possible predators as instinct tells it. The poo comes out on its foot, it goes "WTF" and tries to give it a new burial place that isn't the litter box.
>> Anonymous
>>261388
>>261387
>Opinions, not facts.

No, those are facts. Maybe not for your cats, but they are for mine. They ARE facts.

No logical error yet.

>Your personal experience. Made invalid by the personal experience of others. The last line shows your deep-seated issues with cats. Your judgment is pretty much suspect at this point.

Inferences. Do you know what they are? Yes, I have a bias. That doesn't invalidate anything I say... just because I have a bias doesn't change the validity of my statement.

>Again your personal experience, one more made invalid by another person's own experience. What's more you declawed the poor thing. Pretty damn inhuman act there. Pointed out that it would encourage biting but you pretty much closed your ears and go "LALALALALALALA".

Heh, let me say this again for you. Inferences. Have you ever taken a statistics class?

>Inhuman. Sadistic. Murderous. Sorry, you're not fit to even called human. Hell you pretty much admitted ignorance about cats in general.

Sorry, but it sounds like you're trying to attack my character. I am still human and I already admitted to being ignorant about cats. That doesn't mean I'm ignorant about how they act or other things of that nature.

You don't know what an inference is, do you? A cat makes my house smell, that's a fact. You agree, right?
>> Anonymous
>>261388
I'd like you to name ONE, just ONE logical error I made. Show me the content or structure error and its name. Then I'll stop talking.

That's ALL you have to do.
>> MiMi
>>261393
>A cat makes my house smell, that's a fact. You agree, right?

I don't agree.
The cat's -excrement- is making your house smell. This normally would be temporary, as a cat covers its waste, like we flush a toilet. If your house smells, you need to first clean the cat's litterbox, then your carpets, upholstery, curtains ... If you had a male or female cat approach sexual maturity before being spayed or neutered, THAT is why your house smells - it sprayed extra-strong, pheromone-heavy urine in either very subtle or very obvious places, in an attempt to attract a mate.
>> Anonymous
>>261396
>It is factual that they happened to you. Not factual to be applied to all cats. Logical error. Next.

I never said it applied to all cats. I never even thought that. You're making assumptions.

Logical error you say? What's it called?

Is it a content or structure error?

>Hitler had a bias against Jews. Yeah, no, I wouldn't have listened to him. His opinion about Jews = invalid. Next.
So Hitler has a bias against x. He says y against x. y is automatically wrong? No. Have you even taken a basic philosophy class?

I say inference instead of deduction for a reason. There is a difference between the two. Learn it.

>You are ignorant about cats, thus you have no right to judge them. You didn't even know what were the effects of it being declawed yet you bitched non stop about his behavior. Ignorance is pretty much unforgivable in this day and age. Go back to the 12th century where you'll be accepted.
I know how they act. I don't know about their physiology or psychology, but I do know what they do. That's enough knowledge to call them disgusting.

>You do know that your experience doesn't represent everyone's encounters with cats, right? So you can stop trying to portray cats as "vile creatures" as a whole, right?
Once again, deduction and inference are different. Learn the difference.

Not all Ferraris are great machines, some are broken. But that doesn't stop me from calling Ferraris great machines.

http://www.amazon.com/Crimes-Against-Logic-Jamie-Whyte/dp/0071446435/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=b
ooks&qid=1213078110&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Logic-Irving-M-Copi/dp/0131898345/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&
amp;qid=1213078127&sr=1-1

Get those two books and study them religiously.
>> MiMi
     File :-(, x)
>>261415
>>261414
>>261413
>>261412
>>261411
>>261409
>>261407
>>261406
>>261405
>>261403
>>261402

K-.. KAKAROTT??!
>> Anonymous
INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE INFERENCE
>> Anonymous
>>261397
You've yet to show me the structure or content error and its name. Can you do that?
>> Anonymous
>>261423
People like you exist.
This is a logic error in the universe.
>> Anonymous
inference

noun
the reasoning involved in drawing a conclusion or making a logical judgment on the basis of circumstantial evidence and prior conclusions rather than on the basis of direct observation
>> MiMi
*Voiceover*

On the NEXT episode of DRAGONBALL Z ..... Will Son Goku shit out a Spirit Bomb big enough to DEFEAT THE ENEMYS?!
>> MiMi
     File :-(, x)
>>261447
o shi-

Forgot my image.
>> Anonymous
are they still on Namek??
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
OHNOES, WHERE HAVE ALL MY GOKUS GO? ;_;

SEE YOU NEXT WEEK
>> MiMi
>>261455
DBZ takes place on two places. Namek, and a planet the voiceover guy always refers to as "Earth" but it really can't be, given the near-endless supply of uninhabited semi-temperate grasslands with plateaus and a few mountains strewn about here and there.

No matter how fast or far they apparently power up and zoom around to, if they don't leave the planet, there is ALWAYS previously un-destroyed nameless grassland to do battle in. Always.
>> MiMi
>>261459
Seems /an/ went to sleep. My turn.

I'll answer any cat questions tomorrow, if there are any.
>> Anonymous
>>261474
Good night. Gotta hand it to you though, professionally handling trolls and stuff.
>> MiMi
>>261478
Kahahaha!

Trolls, at least the half-decent ones, remind me of my bratty cousins. Doesn't matter what the topic is about - I might be feeding the troll, but if I'm not feeding him what he wants, he'll soon stop biting, won't he?

Also I didn't get enough sleep. I shall go be a zombie at work nao, kthx.
>> Anonymous
Cats are a pain in the butt. I've had them before
and all they ever do is puke under your bed and ignore you.

You guys should except that that guy's cat is just a horrible animal. Not all animals are nice or fall within the parameters of normalcy. And what his cat is doing seems to go beyond acceptablity.

>>261126
>>261154
Declawing a cat is harmless. They don't need those claws if you keep them indoors. And now they can't scratch up your furniture. Everytime the cat bites the couch you outta bite it back.
>> Anonymous
>>261556
No one's denying his cat is a pain. But he is an idiot to start rambling about how cats in general are terrible creatures.

And sorry, but cats tend to behave according to how they are treated and sometimes they mirror their owner's behavior. I know this since I had a few cats of my own. Either him or his family is at fault.
>> Anonymous
>>261556
Um, the claws are an integral part of their structure and are very closely related to their instinctive behavior as cats. They are in no way superfluous, even if you as a human view them as such because the cat is indoor. They can't claw, then they bite more often. And as for hurting an animal in retaliation, I will leave that to you as a (hopefully) half decent human being.
>> Anonymous
>>261556
Yeah? Too bad my experience with cats is the polar opposite of what you've gone through. Hmm, I wonder why? Maybe I'm a wizard? Perhaps I'm a Dungeons and Dragons ranger with animal empathy? Aw hell, maybe jesus himself blessed me with some sort of animal-friendly aura.

Then again there are others like me too. Hmm hmm, tis' a puzzling thing indeed. Oh but I do know I treat them well, though, and not as objects to have certain parts of their body removed as I see fit. But nah, that couldn't be it.
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
>>261556

declawing a cat is NOT harmless, they remove the entire knuckle that the claw is anchored on. It's equivalent to cutting off the whole segment of the finger that your fingernail sits on, like in this image
>> Anonymous
     File :-(, x)
>>261313
cats can 2 alert u to danger! ass. a few years ago a guy beat the shit out of his gf then broke into the downstairs apartment and my cat went APE SHIT! trying to wake me up (it was like 4 in the morning) meowing loudly and batting my face (claws in) and generally freaking out until i was up and noticed the cop cars all over the neighborhood and herd noises in the downstairs so fuck that... but i love dogs to... i love them ALL!
>> Anonymous
I don't hate cats and I don't want them dead, but I wouldn't live with them for the same reason's op has put. The destruction, smell, and uselessness of that animal. Maybe if I was an 80 year old bed shitting grandma who needed a living companion to ease the psychosis and delirium of decrepitude.

But I'm a young, healthy, male in excellent shape and I love driving out to a mountain range and just running with an equally strong, fast, healthy companion - like my german shepherd. He also has the ability to protect myself or any of my loved ones, from the most vile creatures of all - other human beings.

Cat's are useless, but cute.
>> MiMi
>>261556
>Declawing a cat is harmless. They don't need those claws if you keep them indoors. And now they can't scratch up your furniture.

As others have said, this is not 'harmless'. Declawed cats develop biting tendencies - on furniture, other animals, and people - because their first line of defense is gone. "Oh, he still has his hindclaws." Rarely are the back legs used for defense. Cats don't donkey-kick aggressors. Usually the hindclaws are for grip and gutting prey in close range. The foreclaws, in comparison, are used for grasping, grip, weapons, and arguably most important (to a cat), they are used as scent depositors when scratching. Not the claws themselves, no, but scratching is both a stretch, which feels good, and stretching the toes means the scent glands are unhidden and able to leave a message for the next cat who comes by, or the cat himself, as a reminder that this is his territory.

Cats who have no claws cannot stretch as they like. They've lost their primary defense system - try punching someone effectively without fists. They cannot leave one of their most-used scent glands. The feet are usually painful afterwards. Cats are digitigrade, meaning they walk on their toes. Remove those toes and you have to walk on a part of the foot NOT designed for supporting that weight - declawed cats develop arthritis and back problems from upset balance and weight distribution.
>> Anonymous
>>261774
Dogs that get their nails trimmed don't have biting problems.

Fuck, dogs that have had their hips replaced don't have biting problems.

If you take away a cat's claws so they can't scratch stuff, they start biting everything?
>> MiMi
>>261774
A declawed cat's feet are very sensitive areas - whether this sensitivity is actual physical pain or psychosomatic stress does not matter - you may no longer be allowed anywhere near her feet, and she may no longer be willing or able to dig in the litterbox because of it.

Furthermore, a declawed cat, true, can no longer scratch your furniture ... but what would have been easier? Paying maybe a hundred bucks for a nice tall kitty tree with multiple-textured scratch surfaces for your cat to enjoy, or spending anywhere from $150-450 on a surgery? It isn't guaranteed that a declawed cat WILL develop behavior issues, but no one can argue that it doesn't VERY GREATLY increase the likelihood that she will. If you think so, you're just fooling yourself.

>>261764
>The destruction, smell, and uselessness of that animal.

Again, this has already been addressed with someone else, but the things you mention right there are also seen very very often in dogs. 'Destructive' behavior in both dogs and cats is only destructive because we think so. A cat scratching furniture is just reaffirming that this is his territory, like a male dog piddles on every single bush, telephone pole, and tree on his block. If you don't give your dog appropriate things to chew on, he'll chew on your shoe, or your paper, or a chair or table leg, or door jambs ... If you don't give your cat a surface he prefers to scratch on (sisal, wood/tree bark, carpet, carpet-backing, cardboard) then he will find a surface he prefers (couch, door, carpet, rug - my cat likes my flip-flop shoes too) instead.
>> MiMi
>>261783
Smell? You don't like cat pee and poo smells, huh? Well personally, I hate dog-shit-smell ten times worse, and even more than that, I detest the smell of a wet dog. In ANY situation, though, smell can be avoided, reduced, and cleaned away. If you say it can't, you're either not using the right product (litter, cleaner, deodorizer) or you're not washing the right area.

Cats aren't useless. My cat plays games with me, keeps my lap warm, sleeps next to me, helps me think, inspires me, and lowers blood pressure by helping me relax. Your dog can do all of those things, plus he apparently likes hiking or running with you, and that's great! But cats not usually being up for a run around the block does not mean they are useless.

The only thing that's arguable in your post is a cat's ability to defend. True, it very likely will hide in a closet or under a bed if there is a burglar, but cats have been known to wake owners during fires, earthquakes, gas leaks, burglary, when children or other animals are in distress . . . There is even a story of a cat who 'called 911', when the elderly owner could not do so. He'd tried to train the cat to hit a speed-dial button, unsure if it ever stuck with the cat's brain ... but apparently it did.

Cats, and dogs, are not useless. There are many reasons why they are domesticated animals, and pets to boot.

The thing that many of the "cats are useless/terrible"-opinionated people seem to be missing is that the OWNER must be willing to socialize, train, and be patient with a cat. If you raise a cat from kittenhood and there are no major third-party problems or disasters such as a car accident, there should be NO reason for a cat to have behavioral troubles. In other words, it's not the cat's fault.
>> MiMi
>>261778
Sir, please direct your eyes to the following post.
>>261591

There is a MAJOR difference between declawing and nail-trimming. In fact, if more cat owners socialized their cats from kittenhood to accept nail-trimming or took their cats to a groomer for a nail trim, there would be that many fewer declawing surgeries happening.
>> Anonymous
>>261778
Are you trolling or just dense?
>> MiMi
>>261778
Sorry, should have included this with the last post.

Also, in terms of self-defense, cats and dogs vary by quite a lot. Do you ever see a dog swipe at an aggressor? No. Dogs' nails are used for gripping terrain, not offense or defense.
>> Anonymous
>>261786
That is my family's failing, really. We have two cats, one is well acclimated and the other is a spazz. The Spazz was never socialized properly and his nails were not trimmed from kitten-hood. So now we have to deal with him playing "claw-games" with us. He scratches the rug, we yell at him, he darts behind a couch and waits until we turn away. He repeats the process, because he loves the attention.
>> Anonymous
>>261786
>>261787
>>261789

Doesn't change the fact that I've seen dogs with plastic hips - that obviously can't defend themselves in a fight - and they don't bite the crap out of everything.

Yet you claim removing part of a cat's toes turns a normal cat into a blood thristy vampire, because they feel threatened?
>> MiMi
>>261824
No, you are exaggerating. I'm saying that a cat has a high probability of becoming a 'problem cat' after declawing has occurred. Biting, spraying, a whole mess of litterbox issues, back and paw and hind-leg arthritis ... All of these possible problems may arise, in any combination, by removing the claws and first bone.

Given the odds of any/combo/all of those things happening, which will require far more time, effort, patience, and money to solve or lessen than even the declawing surgery itself ... It doesn't surprise me at all that so many people I come across think cats are evil, vindictive, or just plain mean. The ignorant, 'quick-fix' owners are to blame, not the cats.

I know a lot about dog psychology too, though nowhere near as fine-detailed as I do about cats. I know enough, though, that while analogies can be made between the two, declawing and its possible effects/results has no real comparison to 'dog life'.

in b4 docking and cropping - that's another discussion entirely, and ears and tails play no part in instinctual self-defense methods as claws do with a cat.
>> MiMi
>>261824
To boot, in an owner's eyes, if there is no other available/useful alternative to getting a cat declawed, I can surely tell you that they do not consider the cat 'normal'. Instead they see the cat as a problem, which declawing will solve.

A 'normal' cat, by comparison, is healthy, scratching where it should, and needs no declawing.
>> Anonymous
OP, you are an horrible person.

And I've never had a cat, only dogs.
>> Anonymous
>>261824
Wow, goddamn, you're so blinded by your hatred for cats you can't argue worth a damn.

Cats instinctively use their claws before anything. Clawing and biting are the two things they do to defend themselves. When one goes, guess which one bears the extra burden of usage?

While we're at it, do dogs INSTINCTIVELY fucking use their HIPS to attack? But I guess you being the anti-cat moron that you are will come up with the most ridiculous shit to argue with.
>> Anonymous
sage
>> Anonymous
My cats were declawed and they are affectionate even with strangers :3

It is nice to know I have the bestest kitties in the whole world.
>> Anonymous
>>261851
I don't think he meant it would like to use its hips to fight - just that it got the crap beat out of it so obviously it has no means of defending itself, like a cat without claws.
>> Anonymous
>>261914
Yes, but it's all about instincts. Animals don't think like humans. "Oh I lost my claw, so I gotta use my fangs to bite!".

They can't feel their claws being there anymore. The natural recourse is to bite. It's that simple. anyway.
>> Anonymous
>>261851
I'm not the OP dumbass. You're the one that's out of control.

Apparently you're arguing for there being so many poorly unsocialized and badly trained cats clawing and biting people everyday, that declawing must naturally lead to cats putting their fangs into every person that tries to handle them.

Most dogs seem to manage just fine as pets without biting everything that moves, no matter if they've got plastic hips, bad eyes or anything other abnormality that might make them feel insecure.

Either you are grossly exaggerating the effects declawing has on cats, or cats are little Tasmanian devils unfit for pets in the average domestic house.

>>261829
I'm not sure I accept the idea of the cat's claws as some kind of fundamental part of the cat's reason of being, and vindictiveness being a part of the cat's character.

Generally you have to do a little bit of work to get a dog to bite people hurtfully; attack dog training and whatnot, or the junk yard "method" of chaining it up and beating the crap out of it, and/or provoke it into a bite by sticking a finger in its face.

But you seem to be arguing that cats will be nasty if either:
(1) the cat is declawed
(2) the cat is not exhaustively socialized
(3) your cat just happens to be territorial

I almost agreed with you about the arthritis thing; I can understand how that might turn a cat into something ill tempered. But then I remembered dogs with arthritis; they don't go around looking for fights. I had a retriever who developed arthritis, if anything she wanted to be petted more.
>> Anonymous
>>261921
>Most dogs

And that's why there have been reports of dogs fucking tearing people to pieces, you dumbshit? Most cats are fine pets. I know mine are. And so many other people's. Just because cats apparently hate you so much doesn't mean they're generally unfit to be affectionate pets. Cry more, bitch.

I like it how it's A-OK for you to generalize cats but you'll throw a hissy fit just like a baby if anyone were to do the same for dogs. HURR HURRR
>> Anonymous
>>261921
LET US PULL STATISTICS OUT OF OUR ASS. COME ON PEOPLE, YOU CAN DO IT.

PULL AND PULL AND PULL AND PULL
>> Anonymous
>>261923Most cats are fine pets. I know mine are. And so many other people's.
I'm not the one generalizing. MiMi and some other anons are saying declawing = savage cat. I agree with you, cats are fine. If they weren't, nobody would own them.

>Cry more, bitch.

Well, maybe only assholes like you would own them.

>>261924
These aren't statistics. If MiMi can get away with saying most cats in his experience can't stand being declawed without getting the CAPS LOCK TREATMENT, I can give my experience with dogs.
>> Anonymous
>>261934

I don't get it, what about declawing and cats becoming assholes afterwards do you think is pulled out of thin air? What the fuck is this, fucking wikipedia edit wars?

Do you honestly think if I went and pulled out all your dog's teeth AND sawed off a third of its jawbone because it was being a nippy bugger, your dog won't act like a miserable asshole afterwards? Is that what you're going to argue?

Everyone's told you that declawing is equivalent to removing fingers of hands up to the first knuckle. Insisting that there must be a significant number of cats out there who don't feel pain after declawing isn't going to make the act of declawing any less painful or traumatic for cats.
>> Anonymous
>Most dogs seem to manage just fine as pets without biting everything that moves

Oh lol, he didn't say that. Dogs bite a lot of everything, regardless of whether it moves or not.
>> Anonymous
>>261960
Troll 101:Ignore everything that the other guy is saying by closing your ears and singing nursery rhymes. Like what the dogfag is doing.

One has to be an ignorant MORON to not know the effects of declawing on most cats. They just think cats are objects that can be mutilated on a whim.

Sage for this stupid thread. This pretty much showcases the WORST of the dog people on this board. And I don't understand why being a "dog guy" means you have to hate cats. WTF?
>> MiMi
>>261921
I'm not the one saying cats are vindictive; others are. The only posts made by me are under the MiMi name. I AM saying that cats can become highly sensitive after a declawing surgery. Can. Not will; can.

I don't know how you can not accept claws as being integral to .. cattishness, however. Dogs must use their teeth to hold, tug, carry .. Cats do this too, but also 'grab' things with their claws, and climb with their claws, and grip and balance with their claws . . .

>Either you are grossly exaggerating the effects declawing has on cats, or cats are little Tasmanian devils unfit for pets in the average domestic house.
I'm not, and they're not. There are always exceptions to a generally-observed rule; in this case, "Cats, having been declawed, are much more likely to develop 'problem' behavriors." Again, if you aren't willing to believe it, after all the information presented about it, well then that's up to you, and all I can say is that if you ever have a cat, please consider many alternatives before settling on getting your cat declawed.
>> MiMi
>about the arthritis thing; I can understand how that might turn a cat into something ill tempered. But then I remembered dogs with arthritis; they don't go around looking for fights.

Again, dogs are not equal to cats. Dogs have a pack mentality. Companions mean safety and comfort and well-being. Cats have a largely solitary mentality, and sometimes an association with an accepted 'family group' of sorts. This has been observed both in feral colonies and inside the domestic home. Comfort, well-being, and safety, to a cat, means having a communal scent (rubbing his cheek and flanks against you, your couch, the door, the backyard plants, the fence), as well as marking kitty-nose-level areas with stronger pheromones to demonstrate territoriality amongst rivals.

These two mentalities have a few similarities, but are for the most part, vastly different. A cat's mind and instincts do not line up linearly with a dog's.
>> Anonymous
>>261969
>>261971
Oh MiMi, why are you so nice to trolls? I'm so awed by your patience I could just cry. Be my waifu plz. ;_;

[spoiler]A husbando is fine too.[/spoiler]
>> Anonymous
I RAAAAAGE'd.
>> Anonymous
A lot of posts here were along the line of "Durr hurr, cats are useless!"

Have you lost touch with reality? They have a very important purpose: pest control. That is their job and it's why they were domesticated in the first place, to keep rodents and other pests out of human homes and food storages.

It's no coincidence that the domestication of cats in Egypt happened around the same time as agriculture and permanent settlements were developed there.

Not everyone used them for this purpose, many keep their cats strictly indoors as affectionate enjoyable pets (which doesn't stop them from fulfilling their role as pest control if you have a mouse problem)

Some breeds of dogs have important jobs as well (while other breeds are useless as anything other than a pet, but there's nothing wrong with that) Dogs see humans as their masters, while cats tend to treat things as a partnership (At least mine do: I feed them and provide shelter and affection, they rid the area of rodents and personally bring me the 'presents')

Although cats have been domesticated, they haven't changed much genetically and still possess everything they need to survive on their own in the wild. They could be released and they would live on without humans (which can't be said for dogs, they have to scavenge human garbage usually). I think it says a lot that even though cats can survive without us, they choose to stay because they like us (rather than depend on us).
>> MiMi
>>261973
See
>>261535

Someone else expressed a similar thought, and I answered. Also, first post said I didn't care if I was being baited or not.

I mentioned it someplace, but whether or not the 'dogfag' here tonight (I like dogs too, just for the record) are trolls, I have come across such obstinate-minded people before. Countless, so sadly countless times. It's just as easy for me to assume that this person really is just amazingly oblivious about cats. If your mom or dad was oblivious about cats, chances are you will be too.

TL;DR
Trolls or not, some people are really this dumb and obstinate in how they regard some pets. I reply with patience in the hopes that my responses may actually teach someone something.

PS.
I am female, therefore I do not exist on the internet. Sorry. No waifu for you.
>> MiMi
     File :-(, x)
>>261989
Once more I go to sleep.

Goodnight /an/. I'll return tomorrow.

Pic stolen from a drawfag.